I say ban the national anthems at sporting events - Page 5

holyroller · 09-14-2003, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crackpott
isn't the whole concept of pledging allegiance counterproductive to the whole "freedom" thing anyway?

That's how I've always seen it. I appreciate and cherish my freedom. I am very loath to give it away for any institution. Especially ironic given that we are "pledging allegiance" to a country in the name of freedom.

ctorg · 09-15-2003, 09:23 AM

I guess, in the end, we shouldn't really ban them because they do serve a purpose for a good number of people, even if that purpose is not a truly practical one in the strictest sense of the term. I'm something of an iconoclast, to a degree, so I don't find much use for the Pledge, the Anthem, or anything like that. I'm fully aware of the sacrifices brave men and women make every day to keep us safe, and I don't need these things to remind me. However, apparently many people do, and would like to hear the anthem before a game. That's fine. It doesn't offend me or anything.

blackamus · 09-15-2003, 10:31 PM

I think it would be nice if after the national anthem we had a "10 minute hate" wherein images of all of the chosen enemies for that particular period of "time" would be flashed on the jumbotron and fans in the crowd would be expected to shout curses and the like towards them and generally get themselves all riled up. How about that...doesn't it sound like fun?

matskralc · 09-15-2003, 10:51 PM

No.

jaxmagicman · 09-15-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by matskralc
No.

I agree, that is something we will never do.

ctorg · 09-16-2003, 10:55 AM

Aren't we supposed to love our enemies? Isn't that what Jesus would do?

blackamus · 09-16-2003, 06:42 PM

*sigh*

No one has read 1984?

matskralc · 09-16-2003, 06:49 PM

I have. I know exactly what you were talking about.

Le Grande Orange · 09-16-2003, 08:57 PM

I think some of us were wondering exactly what connection you were trying to make with the "Nineteen Eighty-Four" reference...

mh2365 · 09-17-2003, 07:29 PM

Imagine going to a baseball game and the National Anthem wasn't played. I'm not sure but there may be a riot. I would no longer be a fan of any American sport that no longer played America's National Anthem before the game.

Long_Long_Name · 09-17-2003, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mh2365
I would no longer be a fan of any American sport that no longer played America's National Anthem before the game.

Just what is the damn link between a baseball game and the national anthem that make them so intrinsically connected in your mind? Baseball is an activity, a sport. It's not a political statement (outside of international competition, and that's not what we're talking about here), there's no purpose for the anthem being played.

Again, my point is about national anthems in general, not just the american one.

StorminZ · 09-17-2003, 09:18 PM

Well, the original question does provoke thought ... thought that I had not previously given too much time to. In fact, I never really thought about the origins of the anthem tradition at sporting events ... it was there and it seemed rather 'natural'. I guess that's what happens when you start watching sports as a kid ... it all seems to go together, so why question it.

Regardless of its origins, I like the tradition. But as I think more about it, if there is one thing that transcends cultural and religious and socio-economic differences within our society, its sports and sporting events. Now for the life of me, outside of sporting events, I can't think when I hear the national anthem on a regular basis. If I stay up late enough to watch CBC TV sign off, I'll hear the anthem ... and again when the network signs on in the morning (yes, a TV network that is not 24 hours a day). It seems to me that sporting events offer us ... the citizens of our great country ... from across all walks of life ... the opportunity to come together, raise our flag, remove our hats and stand proudly as we salute our nation for a moment. It seems to make sense.

In an time when many traditions and rituals are being questioned -- some even being discarded and banned through legal challenges -- I guess one shouldn't be surprised by the question (and I'm not poking at the originator of this thread ... I think the question is bound to be asked on a more broad level and it will be publicly debated). I fear we -- as society -- take much for granted today. Our nationhood -- especially so for those of us living in well developed western nations -- is one aspect of our lives that must be regarded ... we are a privileged few compared to many others around the world. If not at sporting events, where should we be reminded of our anthem, our flag and our country? Maybe we can adopt the North Korean plan and have the government pump the anthem into our homes every morning, noon and night. No thanks ... that's to regimented! If country is important ... and I think many believe it is ... then a few minutes of time prior to each game is very little to ask.

While I am a Canadian, I am reminded of JFK's words, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." It seems the least we can do is pay hommage to our nation through its national anthem prior to sporting events.

Ladies and Gentlemen, please rise and remove your hats for the playing of the Canadian and American national anthems!

Long_Long_Name · 09-17-2003, 09:30 PM

I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion, with one little exception (see 2nd paragraph). I don't consider myself to be a blind patriot to either Canada or Québec, I would never join the Army and the only thing I can say is that I'm a Canadian and I'm a Québecer simply because of the fact that I was born here and that I live here, that's it.

IThere is one thing that bugs me about everything you said. When you say "it all seems to go together, so why question it?", it doesn't make me happy. You have to question everything, or else you're exposing yourself to getting screwed. The doubt is at the base of the philosophy of René Descartes, a philosopher I quite like and that has a great importance in modern philosophy. Anyway, I'm not here to talk about Descartes, but if you don't question something, you're exposing yourself to danger.

Draft Dodger · 09-17-2003, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Long_Long_Name

IThere is one thing that bugs me about everything you said. When you say "it all seems to go together, so why question it?", it doesn't make me happy. You have to question everything, or else you're exposing yourself to getting screwed. The doubt is at the base of the philosophy of René Descartes, a philosopher I quite like and that has a great importance in modern philosophy. Anyway, I'm not here to talk about Descartes, but if you don't question something, you're exposing yourself to danger.

what bugs me is people who feel the need to challenge everything just because they can. but that's just me...

Long_Long_Name · 09-17-2003, 09:44 PM

I know I'm asking for trouble. I know I'll look back wehen I'm 40 years old and say "ah, what a kid I was". Whatever, I'm 18, if I'm immature, so be it.

Draft Dodger · 09-17-2003, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Long_Long_Name
I know I'm asking for trouble. I know I'll look back wehen I'm 40 years old and say "ah, what a kid I was". Whatever, I'm 18, if I'm immature, so be it.

see, now this is smart

ctorg · 09-18-2003, 09:17 AM

Everything doesn't necessarily need to be challenged, but it all should be critically examined from time to time. While the anthem does serve no real purpose on a strictly practical level, and perhaps not even on a logical level, it does make people feel good to hear it. Just because there's no real logical flow of argument that can be well-made for the anthem being played doesn't mean it should stop being played. It's not hurting anyone or anything by being there. I wouldn't mind if it stopped, but others would be quite upset for various reasons, and that is why I think it should stay. To keep people from getting upset.

holyroller · 09-18-2003, 09:39 AM

I say ban football.

ctorg · 09-18-2003, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
I say ban football.

I wouldn't mind. More room on the sports pages for baseball.

09-15-2003, 09:23 AM	#82
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I guess, in the end, we shouldn't really ban them because they do serve a purpose for a good number of people, even if that purpose is not a truly practical one in the strictest sense of the term. I'm something of an iconoclast, to a degree, so I don't find much use for the Pledge, the Anthem, or anything like that. I'm fully aware of the sacrifices brave men and women make every day to keep us safe, and I don't need these things to remind me. However, apparently many people do, and would like to hear the anthem before a game. That's fine. It doesn't offend me or anything. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-15-2003, 10:31 PM	#83
blackamus Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 377	I think it would be nice if after the national anthem we had a "10 minute hate" wherein images of all of the chosen enemies for that particular period of "time" would be flashed on the jumbotron and fans in the crowd would be expected to shout curses and the like towards them and generally get themselves all riled up. How about that...doesn't it sound like fun? __________________ http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

09-15-2003, 10:51 PM	#84
matskralc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,076	No. __________________ Well, they have a saying here in Texas ... but they probably don't have it in California, so never mind. OTBL - Pennsylvania Fightin' Amish ABC - Pittsburgh Puma OCHO - Pittsburgh Pirates EBU - Commissioner

09-16-2003, 10:55 AM	#86
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Aren't we supposed to love our enemies? Isn't that what Jesus would do? __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-16-2003, 06:42 PM	#87
blackamus Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 377	sigh No one has read 1984? __________________ http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

09-16-2003, 06:49 PM	#88
matskralc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,076	I have. I know exactly what you were talking about. __________________ Well, they have a saying here in Texas ... but they probably don't have it in California, so never mind. OTBL - Pennsylvania Fightin' Amish ABC - Pittsburgh Puma OCHO - Pittsburgh Pirates EBU - Commissioner

09-16-2003, 08:57 PM	#89
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	I think some of us were wondering exactly what connection you were trying to make with the "Nineteen Eighty-Four" reference...

09-17-2003, 07:29 PM	#90
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Imagine going to a baseball game and the National Anthem wasn't played. I'm not sure but there may be a riot. I would no longer be a fan of any American sport that no longer played America's National Anthem before the game.

09-17-2003, 09:18 PM	#92
StorminZ Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edmonton, AB Posts: 403	Well, the original question does provoke thought ... thought that I had not previously given too much time to. In fact, I never really thought about the origins of the anthem tradition at sporting events ... it was there and it seemed rather 'natural'. I guess that's what happens when you start watching sports as a kid ... it all seems to go together, so why question it. Regardless of its origins, I like the tradition. But as I think more about it, if there is one thing that transcends cultural and religious and socio-economic differences within our society, its sports and sporting events. Now for the life of me, outside of sporting events, I can't think when I hear the national anthem on a regular basis. If I stay up late enough to watch CBC TV sign off, I'll hear the anthem ... and again when the network signs on in the morning (yes, a TV network that is not 24 hours a day). It seems to me that sporting events offer us ... the citizens of our great country ... from across all walks of life ... the opportunity to come together, raise our flag, remove our hats and stand proudly as we salute our nation for a moment. It seems to make sense. In an time when many traditions and rituals are being questioned -- some even being discarded and banned through legal challenges -- I guess one shouldn't be surprised by the question (and I'm not poking at the originator of this thread ... I think the question is bound to be asked on a more broad level and it will be publicly debated). I fear we -- as society -- take much for granted today. Our nationhood -- especially so for those of us living in well developed western nations -- is one aspect of our lives that must be regarded ... we are a privileged few compared to many others around the world. If not at sporting events, where should we be reminded of our anthem, our flag and our country? Maybe we can adopt the North Korean plan and have the government pump the anthem into our homes every morning, noon and night. No thanks ... that's to regimented! If country is important ... and I think many believe it is ... then a few minutes of time prior to each game is very little to ask. While I am a Canadian, I am reminded of JFK's words, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." It seems the least we can do is pay hommage to our nation through its national anthem prior to sporting events. Ladies and Gentlemen, please rise and remove your hats for the playing of the Canadian and American national anthems! Last edited by StorminZ; 09-17-2003 at 09:20 PM.

09-17-2003, 09:30 PM	#93
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion, with one little exception (see 2nd paragraph). I don't consider myself to be a blind patriot to either Canada or Québec, I would never join the Army and the only thing I can say is that I'm a Canadian and I'm a Québecer simply because of the fact that I was born here and that I live here, that's it. IThere is one thing that bugs me about everything you said. When you say "it all seems to go together, so why question it?", it doesn't make me happy. You have to question everything, or else you're exposing yourself to getting screwed. The doubt is at the base of the philosophy of René Descartes, a philosopher I quite like and that has a great importance in modern philosophy. Anyway, I'm not here to talk about Descartes, but if you don't question something, you're exposing yourself to danger. __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

09-17-2003, 09:44 PM	#95
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	I know I'm asking for trouble. I know I'll look back wehen I'm 40 years old and say "ah, what a kid I was". Whatever, I'm 18, if I'm immature, so be it. __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

09-18-2003, 09:17 AM	#97
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Everything doesn't necessarily need to be challenged, but it all should be critically examined from time to time. While the anthem does serve no real purpose on a strictly practical level, and perhaps not even on a logical level, it does make people feel good to hear it. Just because there's no real logical flow of argument that can be well-made for the anthem being played doesn't mean it should stop being played. It's not hurting anyone or anything by being there. I wouldn't mind if it stopped, but others would be quite upset for various reasons, and that is why I think it should stay. To keep people from getting upset. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-18-2003, 09:39 AM	#98
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	I say ban football. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”