Football Manager vs OOTP! Silly??

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

Ah, we seem to have come to the heart of the matter. See, I thought we were discussing OOTP23, not how well the single-player mode worked 4 years ago, but how well it works today after multiple huge leaps forward since XX.

for real? that is what you got?

no its the same problems since 18 and they still exist 6 version later

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

for real? that is what you got?

no its the same problems since 18 and they still exist 6 version later

If you have not played single player since XX, how do you know?

[oldfatbaldguy]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I discovered CM in 1999, right about the same time I discovered OOTP. There were some other decent text sims at the time such as Sick as a Parrot also.

Oh, man, Sick as a Parrot. That guy was eccentric. I can't remember the developer's name, but I remember he said the genre would keep evolving until we were walking a virtual touchline and instructing our holographic players. He was probably right.

My gateway into sports management addiction was One-Nil, a soccer sim from a little company in Scotland. I also played Ultimate Soccer Manager (in which you had to decide where to put concession stands) and finally got into CM.

Lately the sim I play most is OOTP. FM has gotten so detailed it feels more like having a job than pretending to have a job. Motorsport Manager is quite good but has some weird flaws, like the non-existence of multi-car crashes, and also it's really hard to build up a small team (that's my thing). I love hockey. FHM is getting better but it isn't quite there yet, and SI keeps losing interest in EHM, probably for good reason.

There are management sims for so many sports out there now. Cycling, rugby, Aussie rules football, team handball. I'm always excited about what's next, which at the moment might be that Formula 1 managment sim that is in the works.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I think what he is saying is these are the types of things he might have expected to be implemented over the past 5 years.

But...he hasn't played single-player since XX. There have been multiple versions since then with HUGE improvements to many of the things he is complaining about (AI behaviour chief among them).

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

But...he hasn't played single-player since XX. There have been multiple versions since then with HUGE improvements to many of the things he is complaining about (AI behaviour chief among them).

I played single player in 21 and very briefly in XX before switching to PT and i took 22 off. enough to verify the same problems existed.

the problems are there now just like they have always been there. the AI cannot handle finances, rule 5 or the 40 man or waivers. this is straight facts. go and test it for yourself. if you dont see it going on then you must be awful at video games.

the AI knows what skill level to ask for a player for trades but it cannot get the 40 man and the financial impact figured out. like team options.

ootp isnt a challenge for anyone who plays video games. i wouldnt be surprised if gamers who are really good could prob win the WS with any team their first year. i almost did it my second year with miami in ootp 23.

Even the top FM players cant take a newly promoted premiere league team and contend for the premiere championship. its too hard in FM.

after 3 years any team in OOTP will be world beaters for gamers.

if ootp wants to gain popularity and sell to gamers then all these holes, exploits and weird logic have to be closed.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

I played single player in 21 and very briefly in XX before switching to PT and i took 22 off. enough to verify the same problems existed.

the problems are there now just like they have always been there. the AI cannot handle finances, rule 5 or the 40 man or waivers. this is straight facts. go and test it for yourself. if you dont see it going on then you must be awful at video games.

the AI knows what skill level to ask for a player for trades but it cannot get the 40 man and the financial impact figured out. like team options.

ootp isnt a challenge for anyone who plays video games. i wouldnt be surprised if gamers who are really good could prob win the WS with any team their first year. i almost did it my second year with miami in ootp 23.

Even the top FM players cant take a newly promoted premiere league team and contend for the premiere championship. its too hard in FM.

after 3 years any team in OOTP will be world beaters for gamers.

if ootp wants to gain popularity and sell to gamers then all these holes, exploits and weird logic have to be closed.

Why are you so hung up on "gamers"? Most "gamers" that I know do not like playing Simulations. How about you fire up OOTP23 on Challenge Mode as Baltimore or Miami and stream your season and see if you can put your $$ where your mouth is and win the world series in your first year?

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

Why are you so hung up on "gamers"? Most "gamers" that I know do not like playing Simulations. How about you fire up OOTP23 on Challenge Mode as Baltimore or Miami and stream your season and see if you can put your $$ where your mouth is and win the world series in your first year?

i didnt say i could do it in 1 year. it took me 3 years. and my AAA, AA, A all made it to their championship.

i stated several posts ago. why dont you all actually read the posts?????

challenge mode is easy. you cant even max out trade difficulty on challenge mode. its locked.

there are a ton of gamers. management games are huge with gamers. gamers arent just console players or fps guys.

and ootp is also advertised as a management game. if it was a straight simulation then there wouldnt be anything to complain about. but it has GM and managment elements. chemistry personality coaching etc.

[BarneyRubble]

You'd be better ignoring anyone who talks about 'real baseball' and then references a 2.5 'star' player.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

i didnt say i could do it in 1 year. it took me 3 years. and my AAA, AA, A all made it to their championship.

i stated several posts ago. why dont you all actually read the posts?????

challenge mode is easy. you cant even max out trade difficulty on challenge mode. its locked.

there are a ton of gamers. management games are huge with gamers. gamers arent just console players or fps guys.

and ootp is also advertised as a management game. if it was a straight simulation then there wouldnt be anything to complain about. but it has GM and managment elements. chemistry personality coaching etc.

OOTP is advertised as a Sports Simulation game, not a Management game. Football Manager is a 'Management' game, it is in the title. All your posts are just talking in circles, there is no reason to read all of them because they all say the same thing, just with different and more words than the last.

And no, gamers do not care about sports simulation games, all you need to do is look at the streaming platforms like Twitch or YouTube and you can see what categories "gamers" prefer....League of Legends, Fortnite, Dead by Daylight, GTA and even Minecraft still top the list. You sound like you have some personal axe to grind with OOTP.

As I said before, sure there are plenty of things that could be improved upon, but for what this game is supposed to be, there is nothing out there that is close to it. So again, I will challenge you to start a new franchise and if you think challenge mode "is too easy", then set the game up with the hardest trade settings, take one of the worst teams and stream your seasons live so everyone can see if you can "win it all" in 2 or 3 years.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

OOTP is advertised as a Sports Simulation game, not a Management game. Football Manager is a 'Management; game, it is in the title and they advertise All your posts are just talking in circles, there is no reason to read all of them because they all say the same thing, just with different and more words than the last.

And no, gamers do not care about sports simulation games, all you need to do is look at the streaming platforms like Twitch or YouTube and you can see what categories "gamers" prefer....League of Legends, Fortnite, Dead by Daylight, GTA and even Minecraft still top the list. You sound like you have some personal axe to grind with OOTP.

As I said before, sure there are plenty of things that could be improved upon, but for what this game is supposed to be, there is nothing out there that is close to it. So again, I will challenge you to start a new franchise and if you think challenge mode "is too easy", then set the game up with the hardest trade settings, take one of the worst teams and stream your seasons live so everyone can see if you can "win it all" in 2 or 3 years.

go pound sand. i aint a freakin streamer. you can literally turn any of the small budget teams into money makers buy just signing over the hill popular free agents who want milb or major league options. you can bump up fan loyality from 40 to 100 in less then 1 season.

then you will sell out every game. my miami budget started at 100 million in 3 years its 240 million.

waivers, free agents, trades all work the same way. you can sign and trade players the same day. you get the big loyalty boost and immediately trade them for 0 hit to fan loyalty.

you can sign all the free agents if you have a team of 700k players. eat their 1 year deal and get mlb ready prospects. you can get mlb prospects from trading rule 5 guy and by claiming waivers non stop.

if the game allows it then its free play as far as i am concerned.

if you arent good at ootp its not my problem. the game is easy. again its not my problem.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

go pound sand. i aint a freakin streamer. you can literally turn any of the small budget teams into money makers buy just signing over the hill popular free agents who want milb or major league options. you can bump up fan loyality from 40 to 100 in less then 1 season.

then you will sell out every game. my miami budget started at 100 million in 3 years its 240 million.

waivers, free agents, trades all work the same way. you can sign and trade players the same day. you get the big loyalty boost and immediately trade them for 0 hit to fan loyalty.

you can sign all the free agents if you have a team of 700k players. eat their 1 year deal and get mlb ready prospects. you can get mlb prospects from trading rule 5 guy and by claiming waivers non stop.

if the game allows it then its free play as far as i am concerned.

if you arent good at ootp its not my problem. the game is easy. again its not my problem.

So what you're saying is that you won't back up your claims on how "easy" the game is? So this is about some sort of axe to grind then

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

the game is easy. again its not my problem.

Then why are you here complaining as much as you have been if it isn't?

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by DJ_Jak_32

Then why are you here complaining as much as you have been if it isn't?

i am giving sound criticism of the game. you fanboys dont just like hearing it.

ootp isnt baseball. its a video game and all over the steam page it talks strategy game and gm-ing a team.

think a lot of you on the forum know ootp and know baseball. but you dont know games at all.

ootp is on steam. its a video game! get over it

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

i am giving sound criticism of the game. you fanboys dont just like hearing it.

ootp isnt baseball. its a video game and all over the steam page it talks strategy game and gm-ing a team.

think a lot of you on the forum know ootp and know baseball. but you dont know games at all.

ootp is on steam. its a video game! get over it

So if someone calls you out, they are a "fanboy"? So stoop to name calling again I see.

You clearly do not understand software development, and it shows with all your rambling. I have worked in software development for at least 3 decades, and have worked on what you refer to as "video games". So I do understand a lot more than you do.

And just because a piece of software is on Steam, does not make it a "video game".

Here is the description that OOTP has on Steam

"Play What The Pros Play! Officially licensed by MLB, the MLB Players Inc. and KBO, Out of the Park Baseball 23 is the newest in the award-winning sports strategy series. A sports fan’s dream come true - and the only game ever to win Metacritic PC Game of the Year Award TWICE."

And here is what Football Manager has:

The closest thing to real football management. FM22 brings new, progressive ways to find your winning edge, instill your footballing style and earn it on the pitch.

See the difference (I made it bold so you may finally understand my point)

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

ootp is on steam. its a video game! get over it

And Steam is a digital distribution platform, maybe it is tailored for games but it is a means for companies to distribute their software.

[Marinersfan51]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

go pound sand. i aint a freakin streamer. you can literally turn any of the small budget teams into money makers buy just signing over the hill popular free agents who want milb or major league options. you can bump up fan loyality from 40 to 100 in less then 1 season.

then you will sell out every game. my miami budget started at 100 million in 3 years its 240 million.

waivers, free agents, trades all work the same way. you can sign and trade players the same day. you get the big loyalty boost and immediately trade them for 0 hit to fan loyalty.

you can sign all the free agents if you have a team of 700k players. eat their 1 year deal and get mlb ready prospects. you can get mlb prospects from trading rule 5 guy and by claiming waivers non stop.

if the game allows it then its free play as far as i am concerned.

if you arent good at ootp its not my problem. the game is easy. again its not my problem.

So several years ago you played the game on easy settings and were able to get close to winning quickly, therefore it's bad. If I put in any console sports game and put it on the easiest settings, I can win every game easily, but I don't blame the game for me being better than the default difficulty settings, I adjust the difficulty settings to my taste and skill level.

It's unclear what you want out of OOTP, if you just want a difficult management game, I'm sure they're out there. OOTP is a baseball sim with management aspects, not a baseball skinned management game.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

i am giving sound criticism of the game. you fanboys dont just like hearing it.

ootp isnt baseball. its a video game and all over the steam page it talks strategy game and gm-ing a team.

think a lot of you on the forum know ootp and know baseball. but you dont know games at all.

ootp is on steam. its a video game! get over it

Sound criticism has always been welcomed here (even by the "fanboys").

What isn't welcomed is someone coming in and trying to tell everybody else what the game is supposed to be when everyone here has been enjoying it for years.

Very few people here care what the "gamer" crowd thinks about OOTP.

You have a lot of criticisms (some which are very legitimate), but have not made many (if any) suggestions on how those aspects can be improved except "be more like FM".

Your posts just aren't productive. So, in that respect, you are the one that either needs to "get over it" or find a way to contribute to these discussions constructively.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by Marinersfan51

So several years ago you played the game on easy settings and were able to get close to winning quickly, therefore it's bad. If I put in any console sports game and put it on the easiest settings, I can win every game easily, but I don't blame the game for me being better than the default difficulty settings, I adjust the difficulty settings to my taste and skill level.

It's unclear what you want out of OOTP, if you just want a difficult management game, I'm sure they're out there. OOTP is a baseball sim with management aspects, not a baseball skinned management game.

another one who doesnt read. no i play on hardest trade settings and it was this year in ootp 23 \. but its existed since at least ootp 18. its 95% exactly the same gaming experience. no matter what incremental changes happen year to year. it plays exactly the same way every year.

the game is easy. get over it. deal with it.


white knights stand down and stand by

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Sound criticism has always been welcomed here (even by the "fanboys").

What isn't welcomed is someone coming in and trying to tell everybody else what the game is supposed to be when everyone here has been enjoying it for years.

Very few people here care what the "gamer" crowd thinks about OOTP.

You have a lot of criticisms (some which are very legitimate), but have not made many (if any) suggestions on how those aspects can be improved except "be more like FM".

Your posts just aren't productive. So, in that respect, you are the one that either needs to "get over it" or find a way to contribute to these discussions constructively.

i been getting dozens of private messages since the trade logic thread on a daily basis.

all from players who think just like me but dont want to speak up cause the fan boy white knights jump down their throat.

its not for me to give suggestions. i dont work for ootpd. its for the devs to evaluate criticism and see what is valid and what is not and for them to come up with solutions.

i dont get paid to come up with solutions for other people. its nice enough of me to give the game constructive criticism.

[DJ_Jak_32]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

another one who doesnt read. no i play on hardest trade settings and it was this year in ootp 23 \. but its existed since at least ootp 18. its 95% exactly the same gaming experience. no matter what incremental changes happen year to year. it plays exactly the same way every year.

the game is easy. get over it. deal with it.


white knights stand down and stand by

Then prove how easy it is. I challenge you again to stream yourself on the hardest level with a bad team and win it all within 2-3 years.

And you said you have not played since XX.....this is your quote

I havent played single player campaign since XX. I was able to take Miami to 3rd place my first year and everyone was on mlb minimum 700k wages. 2nd year WS contenders. 3rd year won.MY budget increased
from 100 million to 230 million. While I still have the 5th lowest payroll.