Strat-O-Matic getting Great reviews

[robc]

I was thinking of getting OOTP Baseball 21 while it's on sale, but then I started thinking about Strat-o-matic instead. Typically what I do in OOTP is play a season managing the 1978 Yankees for nostalgia purposes. I intend to create some long running league based on historical players where I mostly GM with some managing, but then I get bored. To be fair, I play a lot of different games and many games don't capture my attention long term.

My biggest problem I think to sticking with OOTP is that the players don't really feel all that varied. Of course some perform different than others, but they just boil down to variations on similar things. I usually don't play with personalities turned on because over the years people have said it is kinda goofy how its implemented, or it just doesn't feel realistic, but maybe I should turn them on some there is some other aspect to a player.

I guess this is just a long winded way of stating maybe Strato-o-matic would be better suited to my limited nostalgia driven play.

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Hellenstone

That really sums up the position of BBM today. I replay lov ethe easy playability, sometimes even more than OOTP. Iteally would like to see a mobile version!
For me I gave it a try again is because there is an auto download feature for logos and player pice included, so you don't have to play around with mods which is difficult due to the mentioned small or even dying community that seems almost dead, you often don't get answers or reply in the forums.

Also the game itself looks like 1990 but the playability and the engine is very solid. I updated an old skin for this year's version again to get a more modern look.

I have over 400 hours on BBM 2017. I'm a big fan of the player development model and the fact that you can run a season in a hour once you've got your team up and running. There's also a lot to be said for the way stats and ratings come together in that game - you can dumpster dive and come up with a great platoon player, or carefully work with a prospect and get results from it.

If you've got a great farm system and know how to develop a player, then that player can become much more than they were supposed to be. John Shelby had around 250 career home runs in my last game.

It's not better than OOTP, but nonetheless I really get into it at times. It matches my playstyle I suppose.

Since we're on about old stuff, what about the games before Mogul? Before BB Mogul came out, I played some text-only baseball games written by a guy named Andy Dolphin. They were complete text, written in DOS with no interface as such, but I had a lot of fun with it. He wrote several other games for different sports. Anyone else play them? I found out recently he still sells those games - for the same price he was asking for in 1998.

Before that, I played the GM mode of Tony Larussa Baseball 3 and 95. Clay Dreslough, who writes Baseball Mogul, also wrote the AI for the TLB series and there's some similarities in the two, in that they're both extremely fast running, simple, yet very good. I still play TLB 95 from time to time.

Before that, it was Front Page Sports: Baseball. And before that, I had a game called Computer Baseball for the Commodore 64. It was designed as a replay game where you could enter in teams, but I wrote an aging algorithm to go along with it and some things that allowed people to draft or sign a "Free Agent". It had a little bit of a local following.

I played a little Strat-O-Matic but by the time I discovered it, computer games had already taken over. If I'd been born earlier, I'd probably have shoeboxes of cards in my closet, too.

[sdw1000]

Also..I discovered OOTP by playing SOM. Looking up ballpark pics or player pics, Google searches would end up sending me to these forums for pics. So then one day, after tired of calculating the costs of each season of SOM, I decided to look up OOTP. I haven't played out a league in SOM in about 7 years now. On my Steam, I have Baseball Mogul and this other game called Digital Diamond Baseball. But neither are intuitive like OOTP. Plus DDB stopped updating because the developer just disappeared.

[Donevyn]

very expensive having to buy each season. I tried Dynasty Baseball because it Web base multiplayer player which made it super easy to play against my brother with no ip etc. hassles. But way too esoteric for me.

[Mifr44]

Originally Posted by daves

Wish you can play head to head in OOTP like we did in the past with the player cards?

I don't mean a long online league, just a weekend of head to head.

That's kind of how we played SOM back in the day. We just tossed all of the cards (season, HOF, greatest teams) into a single pile, and the four of us would draft several teams each, usually around four. Only one card for a given player was drafted.

We usually played those teams for about a month, then we would repeat the process all over again. Draft orders were different for each sequence of games, so you ended up with a lot of players you didn't have previously. It was a fun way to come up with favorite players and also learn about other players.

Realistic? No. Nostalgic? Yes. Fun? Absolutely!

With OOTP, I think I would get more realism with the normalized ratings. But I get a sense the game is designed more for career play with development and aging active. It would be interesting to try to replicate the above with normalized ratings for a full season with OOTP, with the entire league re-drafted on subsequent seasons. I'm not sure it's the best option for game play that's bypassing most of its unique design.

[silvam14]

I’ve never played strat, but I fell upon a guy’s YouTube channel “Tabletop Sports Delaware” and he would play solo games between various teams of different eras. I gotta say I was tempted to buy it, but I just couldn’t rationalize the time it would take to play out one game and tabulate the stats when compared to OOTP.

I would have loved that game as a kid in the 80s though


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[jeffw3000]

As replay games go SOM was always a very good game, but it is different than a Franchise game like OOTP. I have been playing these games since the 70s, before computer games, and have tried most of them.

I started out with replay board games like Cadaco and Sports Illustrated Baseball. Then went to replay board games like APBA, SOM, Statis-Pro, Dynasty League to name a few, before they had computer games. Once computer games came along there were a bunch of replay games ported to computer. I tried most of those, APBA Broadcast blast, Dynasty League, Diamond Mind, and SOM. Also, tried some classic arcade type games like Earl Weaver 2, Tony LaRussa, Front Page Sports, High Heat, MVP, and others. Eventually, the franchise type games came along, like Baseball mogul, OOTP, and Pursue the Pennant. I have tried all of those as well, and feel that OOTP is the best. I feel OOTP brings the most enjoyment these days, and that is what I mostly play these days.

That said, if you really are just looking to do a replay of seasons, I do think some of these other games do a better job of bringing that. When that is what I am looking for I still return to some of these other games. I will still play games like APBA and SOM when looking to do replays, as I like their results better and feel they are more suited for that. I also like Diamond Mind Baseball which is another to consider for replays. Diamond Mind always comes out with a projection disk for the current season, so you can replay the current season. One I have never played, but has interested me is Dave Koch baseball. I have never played his baseball game, but I have played the football game, and loved it. One other replay game I found recently, and enjoyed is Dombrov Baseball. This game is based on the old Sports Illustrated game ported to computer. the game is simplistic, but still fun, and inexpensive. Any past seasons can be downloaded free. One of the things that moved me away from a lot of these games, to playing mostly OOTP, was the cost if playing historical, because you have to pay for past seasons.

I think it is dependent on what you are looking for. OOTP is a great game, but if you are looking for replaying seasons, some of these other games can be a lot of fun, and do a better job of replicating seasons

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I’ve never played strat, but I fell upon a guy’s YouTube channel “Tabletop Sports Delaware” and he would play solo games between various teams of different eras. I gotta say I was tempted to buy it, but I just couldn’t rationalize the time it would take to play out one game and tabulate the stats when compared to OOTP.

I would have loved that game as a kid in the 80s though


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It's funny, as I've grown more and more tired of the way so called friends behave on Facebook, I've started joining music groups, crime fiction groups and sports simulation groups. I love reading about peoples replays even when it's games I haven't played in years or if ever. Some of the Youtube videos are a blast to watch.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by David Watts

It's funny, as I've grown more and more tired of the way so called friends behave on Facebook, I've started joining music groups, crime fiction groups and sports simulation groups. I love reading about peoples replays even when it's games I haven't played in years or if ever. Some of the Youtube videos are a blast to watch.

I think those groups are social media’s sweet spot when it comes to civility. Well, for the most part. While people can be just as passionate about sports and music for example as politics, things never seem to devolve too much on the formers groups.


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[Sweed]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I’ve never played strat, but I fell upon a guy’s YouTube channel “Tabletop Sports Delaware” and he would play solo games between various teams of different eras. I gotta say I was tempted to buy it, but I just couldn’t rationalize the time it would take to play out one game and tabulate the stats when compared to OOTP.

I would have loved that game as a kid in the 80s though


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Quoting this post so I can say thanks to sivam14 for his work on the historical ballparks. Of course that goes to Adion and anyone else that has contributed to the project. All I can say is "wow!" to the quality of work that went into these.

Onto the original topic, Strat O Matic. I played it a ton as a kid from late 60's into the 80's. I've been playing OOTP since 2002 and this is the first year I have experimented with a historic game. I went with the season replay option, 1969 Minnesota Twins, real lineups, observing only.

OOTP historical, to me, is Strat on steroids. What little advantage Strat might have as a replay, and I'm not sure it does, it is dwarfed by what OOTP brings. It really takes me back to those younger days only I don't have to.... keep stats and only complete seasons for my team. No, instead OOTP provides a complete world for me in one swipe and oh yeah, any year I choose to play at no extra cost And I can watch the games in there proper stadiums (thanks again silvam), with the teams in their proper uniforms, all in 3d!! I seriously have no idea how many games\seasons I would have played over a summer off from school if I had this game when I was 11 years old.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Sweed

There was a time when all there was were cards, dice, recipe cards (yes each of my players stats were kept on these), and notebooks. Borrow Mom's typewriter and I could even have a stat page

Ah... 1954... APBA... those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end.

I had to type up my stats on an old Underwood typewriter... it had a red and black convertible ribbon... I had to use the red... the black was worn out.

OOTP21 is just a tad better than APBA.

Here's a great song, produced by Paul McCartney:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=GielMXWQlbw

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

Used to get cards every year, then PC game, but had to buy individual seasons if you wanted any other. THEN.....Season Ticket, then the rest is OOTP History...I still have original boxes & PC Disk of Strat-O-Matic games. Useless as tits on a boar hog

wayyyyyyyyyyy overpriced and they dick their customers over.
i finally through my disks away.....
i was never allowed to reinstall on a new computer
F them

OOTP is on sale is priced right

strats web site is straight out of 1992.

that said, whenever i see running, bunting and other ratings that appear off in OOTP, it is generally because i memorized the players from strat and trusted strat

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I'm here to learn. I've heard of strat, of course, but never played it. Is there a user's manual available so I could read about its features?

Actually it is DIFFICULT to find the features and manual.
Go to their website.
How anyone (without knowing the game) would buy from their lame website is beyond me

Pluses:
Play by play is easyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to customize.
I believe some of their ratings are more accurate

Minuses
Cost is outrageous
no customer support

I played thousands of hours of strat board and computer game.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Yeah, I mean I don't want to trash the game at all here. I'm all but positive that it was the first game to do anything about lefty-righty splits in a really in-depth way, and the fielding was heads and shoulders above its competitors (mostly APBA and Statis Pro that I remember). And even today, if you want to do a cards and dice league where you meet up with everyone once a week and somebody's house, SOM is still the best mix of depth and playability out there.

I personally don't play in leagues like that and haven't done so for years and years. For me, and I suspect for most modern players, all the added complexity that OOTP brings is a feature, not a bug. You don't have to necessarily deal with it directly since the computer keeps track of all that, so you're going to be able to handle a lot more than you could handle in any C&D game.

sadly ootp for all its stat tracking capability will not (nor is it on the horizon) keep track of grand slams, triple plays, no hitters, inside park homerun.......and tons more that i am sick of requesting

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Mifr44

That's kind of how we played SOM back in the day. We just tossed all of the cards (season, HOF, greatest teams) into a single pile, and the four of us would draft several teams each, usually around four. Only one card for a given player was drafted.

We usually played those teams for about a month, then we would repeat the process all over again. Draft orders were different for each sequence of games, so you ended up with a lot of players you didn't have previously. It was a fun way to come up with favorite players and also learn about other players.

Realistic? No. Nostalgic? Yes. Fun? Absolutely!

With OOTP, I think I would get more realism with the normalized ratings. But I get a sense the game is designed more for career play with development and aging active. It would be interesting to try to replicate the above with normalized ratings for a full season with OOTP, with the entire league re-drafted on subsequent seasons. I'm not sure it's the best option for game play that's bypassing most of its unique design.

without a doubt it was FUN FUN FUN
it UNLEASHED your inner creativity......
we would be the announcers....create back stories.....


this is where OOTP leaves everyone else in the dust....
it starts to create the whole universe we would create in our heads....

OOTP is still missing more customization ( as a developer myself, i try to make everything with an option to be customized and tracked)

I don't see another baseball sim on the markets or in the wings that will overtake ootpb

[RchW]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

sadly ootp for all its stat tracking capability will not (nor is it on the horizon) keep track of grand slams, triple plays, no hitters, inside park homerun.......and tons more that i am sick of requesting

No hitters it does.

[ALB123]

Originally Posted by RchW

No hitters it does.

It does seem a little weird that it doesn't keep a record of the others he mentioned. One of the reasons I love the yearly Almanac's is because of how much ootp tracks - I spend hours in the Almanacs every season.

I played Strat-o-Matic as a kid in the 80s, but to be honest, I don't remember much of it. My friend owned it, but we did play it quite a bit. OOTP blows me away. 99.9% of my interests lie in historic franchises or fictional and it's incredible how much fun I get out of OOTP even if I only have an hour to mess around with lineups and check free agents & transactions or stats.

[Mifr44]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

without a doubt it was FUN FUN FUN
it UNLEASHED your inner creativity......
we would be the announcers....create back stories.....

this is where OOTP leaves everyone else in the dust....
it starts to create the whole universe we would create in our heads....

I don't see another baseball sim on the markets or in the wings that will overtake ootpb

I really don't want to play SOM like I did in the past, but I'm not sure OOTP is for me either.

SOM had its pluses. I could grab cards from any team, season, or specialty pack (i.e. HOF players), and just play. Granted, that wasn't a very accurate way to play the game with players across all eras of baseball, but I really didn't care. I wanted to play the all-time greats along with some personal favorites against each other.

And I wanted the rosters to change often, giving me the opportunity to play with an ever-changing mix of players rather than setting up an initial draft and sticking with it the entire time (the latter is probably my biggest roadblock to purchasing OOTP). I didn't care whether the hitters and pitchers would under-perform because they were constantly playing against top players in the history of the game.

OOTP seems to have the potential to do what I want, but I don't see anyone else doing it. I would love to be able to select the seasons I want to "average" or rotate through, rather than being stuck with someone's career average, their "best" season, their peak seasons meeting a specific playing requirement, or allowing OOTP to dictate how someone's career will play out. There are a handful of players in history who had their career's derailed because of injury, failing health, or death. I would like to tweak those players to give them some better stats (I guess this is my fantasy world).

SOM is not geared for this kind of modifications and detail, which is why I am looking elsewhere. I have *zero* interest in replaying history, setting up minor leagues, or watching someone like Bob Gibson have a career-ending injury his 2nd season.

[ALB123]

Originally Posted by Mifr44

I really don't want to play SOM like I did in the past, but I'm not sure OOTP is for me either.

SOM had its pluses. I could grab cards from any team, season, or specialty pack (i.e. HOF players), and just play. Granted, that wasn't a very accurate way to play the game with players across all eras of baseball, but I really didn't care. I wanted to play the all-time greats along with some personal favorites against each other.

And I wanted the rosters to change often, giving me the opportunity to play with an ever-changing mix of players rather than setting up an initial draft and sticking with it the entire time (the latter is probably my biggest roadblock to purchasing OOTP). I didn't care whether the hitters and pitchers would under-perform because they were constantly playing against top players in the history of the game.

OOTP seems to have the potential to do what I want, but I don't see anyone else doing it. I would love to be able to select the seasons I want to "average" or rotate through, rather than being stuck with someone's career average, their "best" season, their peak seasons meeting a specific playing requirement, or allowing OOTP to dictate how someone's career will play out. There are a handful of players in history who had their career's derailed because of injury, failing health, or death. I would like to tweak those players to give them some better stats (I guess this is my fantasy world).

SOM is not geared for this kind of modifications and detail, which is why I am looking elsewhere. I have *zero* interest in replaying history, setting up minor leagues, or watching someone like Bob Gibson have a career-ending injury his 2nd season.

I'm not the most experienced OOTP'er - far from it - but from what experience I do have, I'm fairly certain you can do everything you just said within OOTP. Uncheck one checkbox and Injuries will be turned off. If you don't want to completely remove them you can still change frequency from the default level "Normal" and decrease the frequency with three individual amounts: Low, Very Low or Extremely Low.

You can completely turn off minor leagues, or you could assign all minor league activities to your Assistant GM (an AI character) and he would take care of every single aspect of the minors.

As far as the very specific player pool/roster ideas you have, I'd bet any amount of money that you can do exactly what you'd like to do, but it might take a little bit of elbow grease to accomplish. However, once you get it setup the way you like it, you could use it again and again and always get a different result. What I mean is, I believe you would have to manually edit the player database. Once you have your custom player database, you can randomly assign players to teams, you could set specific rosters, you could have a league starting draft. Anything you want. You can make pretty much anything within reason, I've learned.

Still, maybe ootp isn't the right fit for you. Only you'll know that. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Mifr44]

Originally Posted by ALB123

As far as the very specific player pool/roster ideas you have, I'd bet any amount of money that you can do exactly what you'd like to do, but it might take a little bit of elbow grease to accomplish. However, once you get it setup the way you like it, you could use it again and again and always get a different result. What I mean is, I believe you would have to manually edit the player database. Once you have your custom player database, you can randomly assign players to teams, you could set specific rosters, you could have a league starting draft. Anything you want. You can make pretty much anything within reason, I've learned.

That would help. With the database pretty much locked down, it may not be easy to do. Hopefully the ODB<->CSV converters posted recently will work in that direction.

Originally Posted by ALB123

Still, maybe ootp isn't the right fit for you. Only you'll know that. Good luck with whatever you choose.

I'm actually hoping I can make OOTP work for my oddball setup. It was probably easier in the past when the database wasn't locked down.

DMB and Action PC! have their own proprietary databases, so this limitation isn't exclusive to OOTP. They normalize players and seasons, but sometimes they aren't close to each other. So, I guess you have to believe one methodology or the other, with no real way to tweak anything that seems out of place.

Usually this can be seen with Babe Ruth. One simulator apparently has Ruth (using a 10 year stretch as a career "peak") routinely hitting 65-85 HRs in a league against all-star pitching, while the other has him rated for 40 HRs a season (using an undefined portion of his career) and rated lower than numerous other historical players. Neither seems right, but trying to project Ruth to a neutral era and park has always been the source of much discussion and disagreement.

Thanks for the input.