TotalMinors v 1.1 Released - Page 5

chinaski · 03-26-2003, 06:02 PM

Im trying to figure out why the finacials cant be Real Life© similar in OOTP? We have the rookie minimum correct at 300,000. So why cant the other players have real life salaries as well? Seems like its pretty easy to come too a yearly figure, ignoring all the incentives wrapped around a normal MLB players contract.

With the gate prices, I cant figure out why they arent identical to the real life average per team. Right now gate prices are way too low, the game doesnt even allow for real life ticket prices.

Are the finacials stripped due to the fact that the game doesnt allow for incentives and all the other running costs a real life MLB team has? Thus the reason for not being able to use RL figures?

i think i just answered my own question... hope im not mucking up this thread

chinaski · 03-26-2003, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22
Here are the average ticket prices for each team, and the 70% figure. I wonder what using these figures would do.

GH

Anyone know how to set the ticket price for a team above 20$?

GForce22 · 03-26-2003, 06:11 PM

hmmm..it won't let you do that?

I'm trying to get a detailed explanation from Markus as to why real salaries wouldn't work. True, if everything else was left the same, they wouldn't work. But if we could remodel all the finances based on real stuff, why wouldn't real salaries work? Hopefully I'll get an answer soon.

GH

chinaski · 03-26-2003, 07:04 PM

ya, $20 is the max.

Im simming out 3 seasons right now with the adjusted team ticket prices. For the +20$ teams, i set them to 20.

Ill post any unusual stuff.

<b>update:</b> Well, that was a waste of time. As soon as i set all the teams to CPU Manage, it reverted back to the old gate prices. grrr. guess i shoulda assumed that would happen, but how are we supposed to test things like this? I dont want to have to manage all the teams myself.

I Am The Game · 03-26-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chinaski
ya, $20 is the max.

Im simming out 3 seasons right now with the adjusted team ticket prices. For the +20$ teams, i set them to 20.

Ill post any unusual stuff.

<b>update:</b> Well, that was a waste of time. As soon as i set all the teams to CPU Manage, it reverted back to the old gate prices. grrr. guess i shoulda assumed that would happen, but how are we supposed to test things like this? I dont want to have to manage all the teams myself.

You could set teams to CPU, run computer manager, then set all teams to human and put up the ticket prices. Then keep it human and let it run....the main thing is how the finances go anyway, not how the teams do on the field.

(While I do realize field play DOES effect finances, the main point of the test is how the ticket prices effect attendance)

chinaski · 03-27-2003, 03:16 AM

Ok, i ran 1 season with all the teams set too human controlled. I adjusted the ticket prices according to the chart above. For the teams that had a avg ticket price >20$, i put them at the game max of 20$.

Boston won the World Series in this seasons sim, their total attendance = 236,521 for the year. 2,650,862 last year. Yikes!

Oddly, for the regular season the Attendance Revenue for Boston was 4,730,420. But the Play-Off revenue was 2,389,323. Hows that work out?

Yankees = 347,941 attendance
Mets = 242,059

For the lower ticket price clubs, things of course improved. The lower the price the better things turned out..

Montreal = 1,619,387 - 2002 = 812,045
KC = 2,220,014 - 2002 = 1,323,036

Im not seeing why its a good idea to charge more than 12 bucks a ticket so far. Anthing over that and you really start denting attendance.

Seems like the lower you set the ticket price, the more money your club makes and attendance doesnt matter on how well your team does. Boston won the WS with 2,920 per game.

I Am The Game · 03-27-2003, 03:22 AM

Unfortunately, those are the conclusions I drew in all my solo leagues, and your tests just confirmed those.

It's really baffling on why a team that can post four or five 100+ Win seasons in a row with a couple world series thrown in can only charge $12 a ticket if they're lucky.

GForce22 · 03-27-2003, 11:55 AM

looks like the real finances are not the best idea. I'll keep the 70% and, if we can manage something with the tv revenue figures, I'll incorporate that.

GH

General Mike · 03-27-2003, 12:16 PM

You don't have to have exact ticket prices to have realistic salary figures. Teams may be charging an average ticket price of $20-25, but part of that revenue is going to stadium leases and to pay people you don't see in the game. Once you take out all the stadium related expenses, the average profit per seat is probably in the $10-12 range.

Glennman8 · 03-27-2003, 12:32 PM

I don't really post on the forum, I just read it. However, I wanted to express my profound thanks for your efforts, Gforce! I'm VERY impressed with the work you've done, and I hope you keep tweaking this thing and perfecting it even into the regular season. I was wondering what news you had on expanding the players listed in the minor leagues of each team? Is completing the minors rosters a goal of yours?

Thanks,

Glenn

GForce22 · 03-27-2003, 01:20 PM

thanks, Glenn.

I don't know how far into the regular season I'll do, largely because I don't believe in updating transactions throughout the season. You start your OOTP season from Opening Day. Why would you start a season having a guy you acquire May 20. It's just not something I've done. I may adjust ratings going into the season, but I've never done the transactions update once the season started.

I won't be filling the minor leagues entirely, as guys have said this causes some havoc with roster management. I am targeting 70-80 guys a franchise, though, with all the top 30 prospects for each team and some added guys as well.

I've been slowed a bit with baby stuff and being back at work. The Opening Day set will hopefully be out by April 15. That's my current target.

GH

Hawk Dawson · 03-27-2003, 04:33 PM

GForce,

Are you on track for releasing an Opening Day roster set *before* MLB's actual Opening Day this season ?

Just curious,
Hawk.

UKRedsFan · 03-28-2003, 07:19 AM

Using my figures I got real salaries working fine, but the problem comes when teams renew contracts/sign free agents, the game awards much lower contracts than they had. So after 10-15 years, teams will still have MLB revenues but OOTP salaries and the Yankees could get 30 superstars for $150m. For example Arizona could re-sign Randy Johnson for far less than $16.5m per year.

Basically if your salaries are at approximately 70%, then if I do my calculations again at 70% it all should work out fine.

Shorty · 03-28-2003, 10:28 AM

Aaron Boone with 4 contact? He hit .241 last year yes, but before that is consistently a .280 hitter (5 contact).

bauermj · 03-28-2003, 10:51 AM

Aaron Boone: giving approx 55% weight on 2002, 30% weight on 2001, and 15% weight on 2000.

AVG vs LHP:
2002: .233
2001: .276
2000: .302
Weighted Average: .265 (5)

AVG vs RHP:
2002: .243
2001: .290
2000: .282
Weighted Average: .263 (5)

Kahkhing · 03-28-2003, 12:02 PM

I'm new to the Total Minors rosters. I have what seems to be a problem, not sure what caused it to crop up. I installed TM 1.1 and want to sim a replay while controlling Boston. So I made all my preseason adjustments and started looking at the schedule. When I got to March 25, there was a game scheduled Seattle at Oakland. March 26 has another single game scheduled (same 2 teams).

I hesitate to delete these games but I'm wondering if its a widespread scheduling problem?

Matteo · 03-28-2003, 12:20 PM

They were supposed to meet in Japan for the first two games of the season.

Kahkhing · 03-28-2003, 12:31 PM

Oh right, the war changed all that. Thanks.

GForce22 · 03-28-2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bauermj
Aaron Boone: giving approx 55% weight on 2002, 30% weight on 2001, and 15% weight on 2000.

AVG vs LHP:
2002: .233
2001: .276
2000: .302
Weighted Average: .265 (5)

AVG vs RHP:
2002: .243
2001: .290
2000: .282
Weighted Average: .263 (5)

Boone sacrificed average to hit for more power. If you want to bump his average rating, realistically you should cut his homers rating as well.

GH

Erich Ingram · 03-28-2003, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawk Dawson
GForce,

Are you on track for releasing an Opening Day roster set *before* MLB's actual Opening Day this season ?

Just curious,
Hawk.

Wouldn't that be difficult as not all teams will be set before Opening Day as some will still be tweaking their minors and moving players to the DL.

03-26-2003, 07:04 PM	#84
chinaski Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: end of the bar Posts: 296	ya, $20 is the max. Im simming out 3 seasons right now with the adjusted team ticket prices. For the +20$ teams, i set them to 20. Ill post any unusual stuff. <b>update:</b> Well, that was a waste of time. As soon as i set all the teams to CPU Manage, it reverted back to the old gate prices. grrr. guess i shoulda assumed that would happen, but how are we supposed to test things like this? I dont want to have to manage all the teams myself. Last edited by chinaski; 03-26-2003 at 07:29 PM.

03-27-2003, 12:32 PM	#90
Glennman8 Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2	Thanks so much. I don't really post on the forum, I just read it. However, I wanted to express my profound thanks for your efforts, Gforce! I'm VERY impressed with the work you've done, and I hope you keep tweaking this thing and perfecting it even into the regular season. I was wondering what news you had on expanding the players listed in the minor leagues of each team? Is completing the minors rosters a goal of yours? Thanks, Glenn __________________ Thanks, Glennman8

03-28-2003, 10:28 AM	#94
Shorty All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 992	Aaron Boone with 4 contact? He hit .241 last year yes, but before that is consistently a .280 hitter (5 contact). __________________ Here we go Redlegs here we go!

03-28-2003, 10:51 AM	#95
bauermj Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 179	Aaron Boone: giving approx 55% weight on 2002, 30% weight on 2001, and 15% weight on 2000. AVG vs LHP: 2002: .233 2001: .276 2000: .302 Weighted Average: .265 (5) AVG vs RHP: 2002: .243 2001: .290 2000: .282 Weighted Average: .263 (5) __________________ Commissioner / Cubs Owner Rounding-Third Baseball League (R3BL) www.rounding-third.com Indianapolis Outlaws PFBL Houston Astros Massena

03-28-2003, 12:20 PM	#97
Matteo Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 473	They were supposed to meet in Japan for the first two games of the season. __________________ ESPN The Show live chat during 2004 ALCS: Julie (Boston): Do you think Jeter does the fist pump everytime he disappoints a woman in bed? Or does he save it for when he's with A-Rod? Bill Simmons: Whoops - I didn't mean to post that. Really, I didn't.

03-26-2003, 06:02 PM	#81
chinaski Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: end of the bar Posts: 296	Im trying to figure out why the finacials cant be Real Life© similar in OOTP? We have the rookie minimum correct at 300,000. So why cant the other players have real life salaries as well? Seems like its pretty easy to come too a yearly figure, ignoring all the incentives wrapped around a normal MLB players contract. With the gate prices, I cant figure out why they arent identical to the real life average per team. Right now gate prices are way too low, the game doesnt even allow for real life ticket prices. Are the finacials stripped due to the fact that the game doesnt allow for incentives and all the other running costs a real life MLB team has? Thus the reason for not being able to use RL figures? i think i just answered my own question... hope im not mucking up this thread

03-26-2003, 06:11 PM	#83
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	hmmm..it won't let you do that? I'm trying to get a detailed explanation from Markus as to why real salaries wouldn't work. True, if everything else was left the same, they wouldn't work. But if we could remodel all the finances based on real stuff, why wouldn't real salaries work? Hopefully I'll get an answer soon. GH

03-27-2003, 03:16 AM	#86
chinaski Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: end of the bar Posts: 296	Ok, i ran 1 season with all the teams set too human controlled. I adjusted the ticket prices according to the chart above. For the teams that had a avg ticket price >20$, i put them at the game max of 20$. Boston won the World Series in this seasons sim, their total attendance = 236,521 for the year. 2,650,862 last year. Yikes! Oddly, for the regular season the Attendance Revenue for Boston was 4,730,420. But the Play-Off revenue was 2,389,323. Hows that work out? Yankees = 347,941 attendance Mets = 242,059 For the lower ticket price clubs, things of course improved. The lower the price the better things turned out.. Montreal = 1,619,387 - 2002 = 812,045 KC = 2,220,014 - 2002 = 1,323,036 Im not seeing why its a good idea to charge more than 12 bucks a ticket so far. Anthing over that and you really start denting attendance. Seems like the lower you set the ticket price, the more money your club makes and attendance doesnt matter on how well your team does. Boston won the WS with 2,920 per game.

03-27-2003, 03:22 AM	#87
I Am The Game All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 691	Unfortunately, those are the conclusions I drew in all my solo leagues, and your tests just confirmed those. It's really baffling on why a team that can post four or five 100+ Win seasons in a row with a couple world series thrown in can only charge $12 a ticket if they're lucky.

03-27-2003, 11:55 AM	#88
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	looks like the real finances are not the best idea. I'll keep the 70% and, if we can manage something with the tv revenue figures, I'll incorporate that. GH

03-27-2003, 12:16 PM	#89
General Mike Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somerset, NJ Posts: 255	You don't have to have exact ticket prices to have realistic salary figures. Teams may be charging an average ticket price of $20-25, but part of that revenue is going to stadium leases and to pay people you don't see in the game. Once you take out all the stadium related expenses, the average profit per seat is probably in the $10-12 range.

03-27-2003, 01:20 PM	#91
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	thanks, Glenn. I don't know how far into the regular season I'll do, largely because I don't believe in updating transactions throughout the season. You start your OOTP season from Opening Day. Why would you start a season having a guy you acquire May 20. It's just not something I've done. I may adjust ratings going into the season, but I've never done the transactions update once the season started. I won't be filling the minor leagues entirely, as guys have said this causes some havoc with roster management. I am targeting 70-80 guys a franchise, though, with all the top 30 prospects for each team and some added guys as well. I've been slowed a bit with baby stuff and being back at work. The Opening Day set will hopefully be out by April 15. That's my current target. GH

03-27-2003, 04:33 PM	#92
Hawk Dawson Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 63	GForce, Are you on track for releasing an Opening Day roster set before MLB's actual Opening Day this season ? Just curious, Hawk.

03-28-2003, 07:19 AM	#93
UKRedsFan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Worthing, England Posts: 83	Using my figures I got real salaries working fine, but the problem comes when teams renew contracts/sign free agents, the game awards much lower contracts than they had. So after 10-15 years, teams will still have MLB revenues but OOTP salaries and the Yankees could get 30 superstars for $150m. For example Arizona could re-sign Randy Johnson for far less than $16.5m per year. Basically if your salaries are at approximately 70%, then if I do my calculations again at 70% it all should work out fine.

03-28-2003, 12:02 PM	#96
Kahkhing Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 32	I'm new to the Total Minors rosters. I have what seems to be a problem, not sure what caused it to crop up. I installed TM 1.1 and want to sim a replay while controlling Boston. So I made all my preseason adjustments and started looking at the schedule. When I got to March 25, there was a game scheduled Seattle at Oakland. March 26 has another single game scheduled (same 2 teams). I hesitate to delete these games but I'm wondering if its a widespread scheduling problem?

03-28-2003, 12:31 PM	#98
Kahkhing Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 32	Oh right, the war changed all that. Thanks.