Wife and kids coming back!

[Muzamba]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I love the idea of story lines as long as they are related to baseball. I don't mind off the field stuff that are related to players' within the game, but please, no cheezy roleplaying wife and kids stuff. I could never see FM implementing anything like this.

I understand what you're saying, but I think there's kind of a fine line here. Some people might feel that anything occuring off the playing field should be left out. That would include off-field injuries, illnesses, death in the family, birth of children, steroid suspensions, etc. However, the reason these things ARE in the game is that they are the kinds of events that affect players in real life. Of course, some of us prefer not to be reminded of real life when we're playing a game. But at the other end of the spectrum, there are those of us who want to feel like we're watching a true-to-life scenario unfold. (And reality isn't always pretty, nor is it always serious.) In between these two extremes, I believe there's room for a wide variety of storylines.

Personally, I try to recreate the types of stories I see when reading the sports page or a baseball website. Obviously, most of the articles have to do with the game, or at least front office activities. Then there are those "other" stories, and even an occasional fluff piece. Do I bother to read these? Generally, no. But once in a while, one of them catches my eye and I learn something interesting about a player that I didn't know. And let's be honest, would a guy like Derek Jeter be as interesting to us if he wasn't such a lothario? Or Barry Zito if he didn't play in a rock band? What else would most of us know about Miguel Batista if he hadn't made his comments about Miss Whats-Her-State last summer? We might have an apathetic reaction when we first read or hear most of this information, but like it or not, this stuff sticks with us. More importantly, it reminds us that baseball players are real people and not just brainless, soulless robots constructed solely for our entertainment.

The key here, IMHO, is to make sure that the storylines in OOTP...

A. Don't occur too often
B. Don't become repetitive

...and...

C. Don't have too significant and/or unrealistic of an impact on the game

As many of you know, we've had problems with 'B' in OOTP 11. However, we've done some tweaking on frequencies and I'm confident that by the time v12 is released, these stories will pop up a lot less often. Plus, we only had a handful of storylines in the db last year. There are already about 10x as many in the updated db and the goal is to at least double, if not triple that number. So variety shouldn't be an issue.

One thing I will suggest to Markus, though, is to add more options for disabling storylines. In v11, you can only disable storylines altogether. However, I'm recommending that the user have the option to enable/disable more specific types of storylines. That way, if you don't want to see articles pertaining to players' off-field antics, for instance, you can simply disable them and they won't ever appear. (Still, if you don't care for a specific storyline, remember you can always delete it from the database.)

I hope this explains my vision of storylines a little better.

And btw, I'm always open to suggestions. So if anyone has any storyline ideas, feel free to post them and either I or one of the other storyline team members will try to develop them and include them in the OOTP 12 db.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

I don't think it means that at all. This would imply that some people aren't capable of being civil, so their only other option is to not say anything. That sounds like, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

I personally don't see what's so hard about being polite and offering constructive criticism. Unlike some people, I value everyone's opinion, even if their opinion is counter to my own. It's not always WHAT people say that's the problem, but how they say it. What if everytime you made a suggestion, several people chimed in with "That's a stupid idea. I hope Markus doesn't waste his time on that"? It's generally more productive to take the time to fully comprehend an idea and discuss alternatives than to just dismisses it outright. That's one of the problems with our society today; We don't value creativity and ingenuity. We're too impatient to engage in any real brainstorming. Instead, we prefer to just shoot down ideas right out of the box. And all that does is stifle progress and innovation.

I guess I've just seen so many forums on the internet turn into cesspools of name-calling and ugly rhetoric over the past several years. I long for the days when people could have - here's that word again - civil discussions without feeling the need to put people down just because they don't agree with them. I'm not saying that's where the OOTP forum is headed by any means. (Compared to some forums, this place is a freakin' love-in.) I just don't think having an extra little bit of forum decorum is such a bad thing.

Anyway, I've spent too much time "defending" the original idea of this thread. As I've stated before, I don't personally have any interest in the old version of the "wife and kids" feature returning. This is more about people - especially newer members of the OOTP community - feeling comfortable sharing their ideas in general.

However, since I have been composing literally hundreds of storylines for OOTP 12, I'm unfortunately already preparing for the rash of negative comments that are bound to be posted about this storyline or that storyline. (And yes, there are some that involve events that take place off the playing field, which means there may be some mention of... wives and/or children. ) But rest assured, my composition of such articles is not taking any more than a few minutes away from the countless hours I'm spending working on other aspects of the game that I'm sure many - dare I say MOST - of you will actually enjoy.

(Then again, if storylines burden you with a little too much reality, keep in mind you always have the option of deleting certain storylines from the database, or disabling storylines altogether. )

And so, in the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

Muzamba, this is a great post. Regarding this:

What if everytime you made a suggestion, several people chimed in with "That's a stupid idea. I hope Markus doesn't waste his time on that"?

I have been critical of certain proposals (graphics and sound) that I thought inadvisable for the game's future, in my opinion, and part of my concern was also to not use up OOTP's limited resources on what I consider peripherals (not that OOTP's resources are any of my business, really).

My point is, I expressed these opinions in just such a manner. Some of the responses I received have not been in that manner.

This is just an example and it does not matter to me. I learned long ago to leave my ego out of this. However, to the extent we can influence the viability and success of this game here, we can accomplish much more with civility than we can with brickbats.

"That's all I have to say about that."

[fintach]

Originally Posted by RandyTiger

Is that what the hunk of mystery meat was?

On the fortunate side, I was with my cat at the vet when his time came, and I ordered the cremation, so I know it wasn't my pet of sixteen years.

On the unfortunate side, I now remember the sudden way that the local squirrels stopped eating out apricots. I'm not sure I want to ask my mom about that.

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Well, actually the username is ironic (I'm somewhat of a pryomaniac, or was as a teenager), but yes, that is what it means.

Thank you for not saying that you cobbled together that user name out of the tears you have shed for failed teams.

Originally Posted by RchW

Are you the only surviving child?

Well, my brother is years older and had moved out by then, but the local children all seemed to "move away" at an alarming rate. . . .

(For those not acquainted with my sense of humor, I am in fact joking about the squirrels and local children. They did go a bit nuts with that dehydrator though.)

[Dreifort]

Originally Posted by fintach

On the fortunate side, I was with my cat at the vet when his time came, and I ordered the cremation, so I know it wasn't my pet of sixteen years.

On the unfortunate side, I now remember the sudden way that the local squirrels stopped eating out apricots. I'm not sure I want to ask my mom about that.



Thank you for not saying that you cobbled together that user name out of the tears you have shed for failed teams.



Well, my brother is years older and had moved out by then, but the local children all seemed to "move away" at an alarming rate. . . .

(For those not acquainted with my sense of humor, I am in fact joking about the squirrels and local children. They did go a bit nuts with that dehydrator though.)

For a moment there, I thought you were going to admit you kept a list of individual names of all the kids & animals in your neighborhood you wanted to see "leave". And yes, I was implying you named each animial (cats, squirrels, mice, birds, etc) with their own unique names.

Sarcasm is fun! ....sorry

[fintach]

Originally Posted by Dreifort

And yes, I was implying you named each animial (cats, squirrels, mice, birds, etc) with their own unique names.

Wait, are you saying I shouldn't be doing that?

Originally Posted by Dreifort

Sarcasm is fun! ....sorry

No apology necessary.

[endgame]

Perhaps this thread is due for a trial separation.

Honestly, one minor element born of the original wife/kid component was the newly added, still underrated and under-utilized, Manager's Notes function. At the time, the screen that logged the 'relationship' interactions was the only one of its kind available in-game to customize/log notes of import, whether they involved family or not. So, while I was never a fan of the original intention, I am thankful for the seed it provided to enable other applications.

[Rizon]

Is this the Head-to-Head thread?

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Is this the Head-to-Head thread?

/thread

[kckid4u]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

The key here, IMHO, is to make sure that the storylines in OOTP...

I noticed you used the "IMHO", which I guess stands for "In my honest opinion. Correct? If so, does that mean at times you will give a "un-honest " opinion? If so, it makes it kind of hard for the rest of us to know if what you say IS EVER an honest opinion.

[endgame]

^ Actually, it generally means "In my humble opinion." Which also means there are those of us who, if we use it, would be dishonest having done so.

[kckid4u]

Originally Posted by endgame

^ Actually, it generally means "In my humble opinion." Which also means there are those of us who, if we use it, would be dishonest having done so.

Ah, I see. Well then.............................................. .........nevermind.

[The Wolf]

IMHO really means "In My Hate-filled Opinion."

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

IMHO really means "In My Hate-filled Opinion."

I always thought it meant "I Masturbate Horses Occassionally"

I just assumed a lot of famers frequented the boards.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

I always thought it meant "I Masturbate Horses Occassionally"

I just assumed a lot of famers frequented the boards.

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

/thread

Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. Please. I beg.

[The Wolf]

"We need to be more civil" = "Your side needs to shut the heck up"

[Muzamba]

I apologize to anyone who found my comments to be hateful, hypocritical, or in any other way offensive. I sincerely didn't realize that suggesting people in general try to be polite to one another when having a discussion was such a controversial and inflammatory concept. But I guess in this day and age, it is. So I stand corrected. As long as certain lines aren't crossed and it doesn't violate any of the forum rules, I'm sure Markus and the moderators won't have a problem.

Furthermore, I hope this post doesn't come across as sounding defensive or make anyone else feel defensive. I'm sure this will sound insincere to some, but I truly have no intention of keeping this argument going any further. So if anyone else feels it necessary to have the last word on this topic, I graciously yield the floor to you.

I've attempted to redirect this thread toward a constructive discussion on storylines. If anyone else is interested in taking part in this discussion, I'll gladly rejoin the conversation. Otherwise, I'd rather devote my time to something more productive and beneficial to the development of the game.

[mm7607]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

I've attempted to redirect this thread toward a constructive discussion on storylines.

I think the storylines are just fluff. I dont need them for immersion. What I do need is a GOOD encyclopedia. That would be constructive!

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

I apologize to anyone who found my comments to be hateful, hypocritical, or in any other way offensive. I sincerely didn't realize that suggesting people in general try to be polite to one another when having a discussion was such a controversial and inflammatory concept.

Don't worry about it Muzamba. There's always a few people (plus their sockpuppets!) who act like that!

As release date approaches we don't want people using multiple accounts to peddle their own views. We had a similar thing last year... Forum rules say you can't Use Aliases Inappropriately and we have the tools to check this.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

I apologize to anyone who found my comments to be hateful, hypocritical, or in any other way offensive. I sincerely didn't realize that suggesting people in general try to be polite to one another when having a discussion was such a controversial and inflammatory concept. But I guess in this day and age, it is. So I stand corrected. As long as certain lines aren't crossed and it doesn't violate any of the forum rules, I'm sure Markus and the moderators won't have a problem.

Furthermore, I hope this post doesn't come across as sounding defensive or make anyone else feel defensive. I'm sure this will sound insincere to some, but I truly have no intention of keeping this argument going any further. So if anyone else feels it necessary to have the last word on this topic, I graciously yield the floor to you.

I've attempted to redirect this thread toward a constructive discussion on storylines. If anyone else is interested in taking part in this discussion, I'll gladly rejoin the conversation. Otherwise, I'd rather devote my time to something more productive and beneficial to the development of the game.

Keep up the good work, Mr. M.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. Please. I beg.

IBL!

Which, around here, people are going to think is "International Baseball League."

No, it's "IN BEFORE LOCK"! Has not this thread run its course? Yes?