2005 Barry Bonds Injury Pool - Page 4

jeheinz72 · 03-22-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldog55

You could make that case. You could also make the case that the Dodgers have improved. I'm on the fence on that issue so far. But considering they didn't win the division, they'd better well improve if they want it this year.

Exactly. If this was just the 2004 Giants without Bonds, I'd admit we're pretty cooked, but I think the Benitez acquisition is being underestimated, as the Giants I think (and I am going off memory here admittedly, blew the most saves in the NL last season).

disposableheros · 03-22-2005, 06:02 PM

G&GH - you must be very explicit when cracking a joke about Bonds or a certain Bond's lover will not take kindly to it

i personally think this is just Barry's way to set us up for "look how great i am" again. "I was expected to miss the entire season, wound up coming back at the AS break and finished the season with 20 HR 80 BB and 40 RBI. Whitey could never have done that. I am the greatest."

nothing has been confirmed by a doctor about the amount of time he is going to miss. these are comments made by Bonds himself, not the most trustworthy source of info about himself. the only somewhat authority on the issue (Conte [Stan, not Victor]) has said 6 weeks and/or May 1 the target date http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/a...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

The Funk · 03-22-2005, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackemu

Is no one picking Barry Bonds for MVP because they're just trying to be cute, because they thought everyone else would (like me) or because they're seriously predicting less than an MVP season from him?

I didn't pick him because at his age I felt a decline and injury problems were very likely. I didn't think he'd play enough games to win it. Having said that the rest of my predictions will doubtless be way off.

EagleEye_0 · 03-22-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Feliz/Alfonzo/Snow were supposed to be a 3-headed monster.

More like a 3-headed beanie baby

Jason Moyer · 03-22-2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

Ryne Sandberg thinks so too.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

Uhhhh.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryne Sandberg

In the end, I think Bonds will come back sooner than expected. He'll want to continue his record chase and get back into the middle of the Giants' batting order to help the team win the division – as only Barry Bonds can do.

Yes, an article that ended with that paragraph was predicting Bonds' retirement.

UngratefulDead · 03-22-2005, 06:36 PM

Oh sh*t...

I'll have to wait to hear a doctor's report.. this really just seems like Barry is fed-up, I wouldn't be so sure he'll still be thinking like this when he's physically capable of playing. Assuming he misses the full season, no way the Giants win the division (barring season-ending injuries to J.D. Drew, Odalis Perez, Jake Peavy, and Brian Giles), if he misses half there is a chance.

UngratefulDead · 03-22-2005, 06:39 PM

dola,

Also, isn't Bonds contractually obligated to play if doctors rule he can? If he's really as greedy as he's made out to be it doesn't seem likely he'd be willing to risk his salary just because he's tired.

Joshv02 · 03-22-2005, 08:07 PM

Pedro Feliz

Code:

YR     Avg   OBP   SLG  RC/600 PA
2002: .253  .281  .336  51
2003: .247  .278  .515  86
2004: .276  .305  .485  89
Car : .257  .288  .448  77

In 2004, the lg avg RC/600 PA was 83. It has been floating from 80-86 for the past number of years. Feliz is an average offensive player, in a league that uses a pitcher in about 8-9% of PAs.

The 2005 Projection

Code:

Zips Projection    .274  .303  .476  87
Marcel Projection  .266  .304  .465  85

For context, Bonds had about 202 RC last year (using a simply obp*slg calc) in only 550 PAs. So, Pedro is about 10-12 games difference on offense from last year. (I'd go a step further than Aadik: the difference between Bonds and Feliz is worse than the difference between Feliz and just conceeding the out.)

Assume, for sake of argument, that the Giants were a 95 win team. They are now, at best, a 85 win team. Personally, I think they were more like a 90 win team. They are now in the high 70s.

Though, Feliz is probably about as average as you can get. That isn't horrible for a backup. However, better than 99%? Lets just name a few:

Frank Catalanotto
Matt LeCroy
Ross Gload (that ought to make people happy)
Jody Gerut/Grady Sizemore (whichever)
Matt Stairs/Calvin Pickering
Kevin Youkilis
Jay Payton
Juan Gonzalez
Charles Thomas
Jeff Davanon

That was the AL, and I stopped at LAAOA. Ok, I got lazy. If we just look at projected Marcel's, there are over 330 players above him. I think he is about an average backup, maybe slightly below. Probably about average. You can sign Andy Abad out of the Japan league and get the same value.

lukster · 03-22-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldog55

A mortal lock?

They're not that good. With Bonds they are what they were last year: contenders for the division. Without him, they're Jason Schmidt, Moises Alou, and Omar Vizquel plus a closer who can only contribute when his team is already winning. If Bonds misses several months, the Giants are out of it. If Bonds plays most of the season they have a good shot at winning the division, just like three other teams.

I take glee in Bonds's demise (what's that German word?), which makes me a classless Dodger fan. There's nothing I want to see more than Bonds fizzle out and finish short of Whitey. I'm racist like that.

that's great.
we should meet for a dodger dog on opening day under the left field pavilion..

cheers lukster

swampdragon · 03-22-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UngratefulDead

dola,

Also, isn't Bonds contractually obligated to play if doctors rule he can? If he's really as greedy as he's made out to be it doesn't seem likely he'd be willing to risk his salary just because he's tired.

I believe I read that Bonds had to have 500 plate appearances per year for the Giants to be obligated for 18 million in 2006, but that they took that clause out last September, so as long as Bonds doesn't officially retire, he gets paid.

UngratefulDead · 03-22-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

I believe I read that Bonds had to have 500 plate appearances per year for the Giants to be obligated for 18 million in 2006, but that they took that clause out last September, so as long as Bonds doesn't officially retire, he gets paid.

True, but, there must be something to prevent players from just faking injuries somewhere in the rules... I'd imagine if a doctor rules he's physically okay he won't just be able to sit out.

Luis_Rivera · 03-22-2005, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UngratefulDead

True, but, there must be something to prevent players from just faking injuries somewhere in the rules... I'd imagine if a doctor rules he's physically okay he won't just be able to sit out.

It would make sense that something like this would be standard for any Major League contract... let alone one one this lucrative.

KILLERBS24 · 03-22-2005, 10:46 PM

He'll be back in a couple months, he's just frustrated that he re-injured the same leg he was just coming back from and now has to start all over again. Anybody that thinks Bonds is just gonna retire now is crazy. If he had already passed Ruth I would say maybe it would be possible, he wouldn't mind being second to Aaron, but theres no way he's going to quit while he still trails Ruth and he's so close to passing him.

bulldog55 · 03-22-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukster

that's great.
we should meet for a dodger dog on opening day under the left field pavilion..

cheers lukster

Well, I'm a vegetarian who lives in Portland, but otherwise count me in!

Seriously, I'll be coming down for a three-day weekend in LA at some point this summer. I'll post in here about it so keep your eye out for that.

UngratefulDead · 03-22-2005, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

He'll be back in a couple months, he's just frustrated that he re-injured the same leg he was just coming back from and now has to start all over again. Anybody that thinks Bonds is just gonna retire now is crazy. If he had already passed Ruth I would say maybe it would be possible, he wouldn't mind being second to Aaron, but theres no way he's going to quit while he still trails Ruth and he's so close to passing him.

I think I can safely say this is the first time I've ever agreed with you. Feels.... weird.

darkhorse · 03-22-2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshv02

Pedro Feliz

Code:

YR     Avg   OBP   SLG  RC/600 PA
2002: .253  .281  .336  51
2003: .247  .278  .515  86
2004: .276  .305  .485  89
Car : .257  .288  .448  77

In 2004, the lg avg RC/600 PA was 83. It has been floating from 80-86 for the past number of years. Feliz is an average offensive player, in a league that uses a pitcher in about 8-9% of PAs.

Feliz EQA was .262 last year and is .249 for his career.

AND the dood plays LF where those numbers descend into marginalia.

His OBP is fooking atrocious. 23 walks in 503 at bats. That's about a fortnight's work for BB.

Crapshoot · 03-22-2005, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I have gone over my quota. Don't you have some pennies to count?

I'd suggest watching the racial jokes jackass- you still arent funny.

TotalEnd98 · 03-22-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Feliz EQA was .262 last year and is .249 for his career.

AND the dood plays LF where those numbers descend into marginalia.

His OBP is fooking atrocious. 23 walks in 503 at bats. That's about a fortnight's work for BB.

Exactly. His career OBP is .288, which is absolutely horrible. Isn't .300 right about the lowest OBP one can have and still be considered to be contributing to the team in any meaningful way at the plate?

darkhorse · 03-22-2005, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TotalEnd98

Exactly. His career OBP is .288, which is absolutely horrible. Isn't .300 right about the lowest OBP one can have and still be considered to be contributing to the team in any meaningful way at the plate?

For Feliz, that seems to be the case as he was was a tick above league average
while sporting his career high OBP of .305 last season.

One other item, Feliz turns 28 this season, not 30.

sebastian0622 · 03-22-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aadik

Funny - I read posting "Its a Wonderful World" as being more then jest- but to each their own.

Looks like somebowy's feewings are hurt.

03-22-2005, 06:02 PM	#62
disposableheros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,332	G&GH - you must be very explicit when cracking a joke about Bonds or a certain Bond's lover will not take kindly to it i personally think this is just Barry's way to set us up for "look how great i am" again. "I was expected to miss the entire season, wound up coming back at the AS break and finished the season with 20 HR 80 BB and 40 RBI. Whitey could never have done that. I am the greatest." nothing has been confirmed by a doctor about the amount of time he is going to miss. these are comments made by Bonds himself, not the most trustworthy source of info about himself. the only somewhat authority on the issue (Conte [Stan, not Victor]) has said 6 weeks and/or May 1 the target date http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/a...=.jsp&c_id=mlb __________________ 2 Wild Cards, 11 Division Champs, 4 League Champs, 3 World Champs, and 3 Best GM awards Baseball Maelstrom - New York Mets - 180-149 .547 Corporate League Baseball - Coke Buzz - 889-649 .578 Western Hemisphere Baseball League - Santiago Saints - 672-793 .459 Record - 2428-2271 .517 Last edited by disposableheros; 03-22-2005 at 06:09 PM.

03-22-2005, 08:07 PM	#68
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	Pedro Feliz Code: YR Avg OBP SLG RC/600 PA 2002: .253 .281 .336 51 2003: .247 .278 .515 86 2004: .276 .305 .485 89 Car : .257 .288 .448 77 In 2004, the lg avg RC/600 PA was 83. It has been floating from 80-86 for the past number of years. Feliz is an average offensive player, in a league that uses a pitcher in about 8-9% of PAs. The 2005 Projection Code: Zips Projection .274 .303 .476 87 Marcel Projection .266 .304 .465 85 For context, Bonds had about 202 RC last year (using a simply obpslg calc) in only 550 PAs. So, Pedro is about 10-12 games difference on offense from last year. (I'd go a step further than Aadik: the difference between Bonds and Feliz is worse* than the difference between Feliz and just conceeding the out.) Assume, for sake of argument, that the Giants were a 95 win team. They are now, at best, a 85 win team. Personally, I think they were more like a 90 win team. They are now in the high 70s. Though, Feliz is probably about as average as you can get. That isn't horrible for a backup. However, better than 99%? Lets just name a few: Frank Catalanotto Matt LeCroy Ross Gload (that ought to make people happy) Jody Gerut/Grady Sizemore (whichever) Matt Stairs/Calvin Pickering Kevin Youkilis Jay Payton Juan Gonzalez Charles Thomas Jeff Davanon That was the AL, and I stopped at LAAOA. Ok, I got lazy. If we just look at projected Marcel's, there are over 330 players above him. I think he is about an average backup, maybe slightly below. Probably about average. You can sign Andy Abad out of the Japan league and get the same value. __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

03-22-2005, 10:46 PM	#73
KILLERBS24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 938	He'll be back in a couple months, he's just frustrated that he re-injured the same leg he was just coming back from and now has to start all over again. Anybody that thinks Bonds is just gonna retire now is crazy. If he had already passed Ruth I would say maybe it would be possible, he wouldn't mind being second to Aaron, but theres no way he's going to quit while he still trails Ruth and he's so close to passing him. __________________ Asterisked legacy: Barry Bonds, the greatest steroid user ever

03-22-2005, 06:36 PM	#66
UngratefulDead Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 3,415	Oh sh*t... I'll have to wait to hear a doctor's report.. this really just seems like Barry is fed-up, I wouldn't be so sure he'll still be thinking like this when he's physically capable of playing. Assuming he misses the full season, no way the Giants win the division (barring season-ending injuries to J.D. Drew, Odalis Perez, Jake Peavy, and Brian Giles), if he misses half there is a chance.

03-22-2005, 06:39 PM	#67
UngratefulDead Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 3,415	dola, Also, isn't Bonds contractually obligated to play if doctors rule he can? If he's really as greedy as he's made out to be it doesn't seem likely he'd be willing to risk his salary just because he's tired.