Piazza for Green?

[KILLERBS24]

you can find a stat to prove any arguement, stats are usefull but you also need to use common sense. you talk about Sosa being in decline, well despite being younger Green is also on the downswing of his career, and Greens best season is Sosas average season but being a genius like you are you already knew that.
The Matsui thing was brought up to show that you are always so sure that anyone disagreeing with you is unqualified to do so like you told me, my opinion is worthless because I'm not a scout. It doesnt make you too intelligent to put anybody's opinion down as amature, or uneducated when you dont know anything about their background. Trust me there are several people on this board who's knowledge on the sport is way beyond yours. There are people who have played and been involved in the business so drop the attitude, you don't know as much as you think!

[markwookungfu]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

you can find a stat to prove any arguement, stats are usefull but you also need to use common sense. you talk about Sosa being in decline, well despite being younger Green is also on the downswing of his career, and Greens best season is Sosas average season but being a genius like you are you already knew that.
The Matsui thing was brought up to show that you are always so sure that anyone disagreeing with you is unqualified to do so like you told me, my opinion is worthless because I'm not a scout. It doesnt make you too intelligent to put anybody's opinion down as amature, or uneducated when you dont know anything about their background. Trust me there are several people on this board who's knowledge on the sport is way beyond yours. There are people who have played and been involved in the business so drop the attitude, you don't know as much as you think!

Exactly

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

you can find a stat to prove any arguement, stats are usefull but you also need to use common sense. you talk about Sosa being in decline, well despite being younger Green is also on the downswing of his career, and Greens best season is Sosas average season but being a genius like you are you already knew that.
The Matsui thing was brought up to show that you are always so sure that anyone disagreeing with you is unqualified to do so like you told me, my opinion is worthless because I'm not a scout. It doesnt make you too intelligent to put anybody's opinion down as amature, or uneducated when you dont know anything about their background. Trust me there are several people on this board who's knowledge on the sport is way beyond yours. There are people who have played and been involved in the business so drop the attitude, you don't know as much as you think!

Can we please not make this a personal attack thread?

[KILLERBS24]

It was made that along time ago ctorg, I'm all for having an open exchange of ideas, but there are a few people on these boards that try and turn everything into a pissing match and its a very tired act.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

It was made that along time ago ctorg, I'm all for having an open exchange of ideas, but there are a few people on these boards that try and turn everything into a pissing match and its a very tired act.

Well, can you guys take it to PM then? I understand if you're not getting along, but it's threatening to ruin the thread here. I'd love if it could just stick with the arguments at hand and not become about someone's character. I understand and I know there's history here, but please, let's just try to keep it history and keep it where it belongs.

[IatricSB]

I have to agree with GH on this one. You can't ignore park factors when looking at the two. Here is the Home/Away splits from this past season:

Sosa
Home - .277/.361/.563
Away - .231/.304/.474

Green
Home - .279/.350/.475
Away - .253/.353/.444

Surprisingly Green hit better at home. But Sosa was just awful outside of Wrigley.

[KILLERBS24]

If you assumed Sosa would perform at his 'away' level all next year he would still have a higher slg% which is the most important one in this case. The Mets are in need of a power bat in RF, I don't think they would be happy with a higher OB% guy. they can find anyone to come in and hit 270-280 with a little less power than green. Green doesnt post any numbers that can justify his 16mill, sosas avg has been sliding but his salary can be justified more than greens because Sosa will still hit 35-40 HRs.

[Tib]

I've read all the comparisons but I wonder if this doesn't just come down to who do you like better? I like Green more than Sosa. I like him personally. He's a Dodger, if you know what I mean. I wonder if front offices make decisions on that basis, too, because they should in this case.

[ctorg]

As a Met fan, I'd prefer Green if I had a choice. Age is one factor for me. While both appear to be in decline, I expect that Sosa's will be sharper. There is also positional flexibility. The Mets need both OF and 1B, and Green could be moved based on where you had another player, should one become available. I also tend to think that Green has a better chance at a rebound than Sosa does. That's more just gut feeling than anything.

As for OBP vs. SLG, I like the idea that OBP is worth three times what SLG is worth, point for point. After all, not making an out is more important than what you do with your non-out (although what you do is important, just to a lesser degree). That's just opinion, of course, but it is supposedly supportable by math, which I haven't seen. It just makes sense to me.

[IatricSB]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

If you assumed Sosa would perform at his 'away' level all next year he would still have a higher slg% which is the most important one in this case. The Mets are in need of a power bat in RF, I don't think they would be happy with a higher OB% guy. they can find anyone to come in and hit 270-280 with a little less power than green. Green doesnt post any numbers that can justify his 16mill, sosas avg has been sliding but his salary can be justified more than greens because Sosa will still hit 35-40 HRs.

I disagree, but to each his own.

[IatricSB]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I also tend to think that Green has a better chance at a rebound than Sosa does. That's more just gut feeling than anything.

Agreed. When you look at Green in 2003 and 2004, his production (OBP and SLG) was almost identical. But if you look at the breakdown for half seasons:

2004
Before All-Star Game: .253/.335/.399
After All-Star Game: .281/.371/.529

Green was more like his old self the 2nd half. I wish I had 2003, because I think you'd find the opposite is true. Green seemed to be going along well then just quit hitting in 2003. Later it was revealed he had been hiding an injury from the public. As he recovered, his numbers returned back to the way they used to be. So I agree with CTorg in the belief that Green has more a chance of rebounding.

In interest of full disclosure, Sosa's breakdown by half in 2004:

Before: .279/.372/.567
After: .233/.300/.478

Haven't heard of an injury. Could be because he was disgruntled, but that doesn't make a very good argument for wanting him either. Or the old stand-by, small sample size. So, I'm not using his numbers in this argument, just my observations from watching Green nearly every game for the past couple of years.

[GForce]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

you can find a stat to prove any arguement, stats are usefull but you also need to use common sense. you talk about Sosa being in decline, well despite being younger Green is also on the downswing of his career, and Greens best season is Sosas average season but being a genius like you are you already knew that.

Funny, the only one who really seems to have gotten riled up and personal in this thread is you. I'm sorry you don't like being confronted with facts, but you see, when you're on a message board, people are going to offer differing opinions. Never said I was a genius, you were unqualified, etc....I simply said I would take Green over Sosa and give a list of reasons why to support my argument. That apparently upset you. Fortunately, I couldn't care less that it did.

The Matsui thing was brought up to show that you are always so sure that anyone disagreeing with you is unqualified to do so like you told me, my opinion is worthless because I'm not a scout. It doesnt make you too intelligent to put anybody's opinion down as amature, or uneducated when you dont know anything about their background.

When did I cut you down or your background (which I would love to know.) Of course, you also don't know my background, but that's neither here nor there. Your point in bringing up Matsui was to try and support your argument, and in doing so you fabricated an argument from me that was never made. Called out on that fact, you've now resorted to getting personal. Believe me, that doesn't make YOU sound too intelligent. You should worry about that.

Trust me there are several people on this board who's knowledge on the sport is way beyond yours. There are people who have played and been involved in the business so drop the attitude, you don't know as much as you think!

*clap* *clap* *clap*

You feel better now that you've spewed your nonsense? Good!

Cheers!

GH

[GForce]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

It was made that along time ago ctorg

Where?

I'm all for having an open exchange of ideas

As long as they are in line with your own, apparently.

GH

[GForce]

Originally Posted by ctorg

As a Met fan, I'd prefer Green if I had a choice. Age is one factor for me. While both appear to be in decline, I expect that Sosa's will be sharper. There is also positional flexibility. The Mets need both OF and 1B, and Green could be moved based on where you had another player, should one become available. I also tend to think that Green has a better chance at a rebound than Sosa does. That's more just gut feeling than anything.

As for OBP vs. SLG, I like the idea that OBP is worth three times what SLG is worth, point for point. After all, not making an out is more important than what you do with your non-out (although what you do is important, just to a lesser degree). That's just opinion, of course, but it is supposedly supportable by math, which I haven't seen. It just makes sense to me.

Careful, this kind of thinking apparently can get you attacked!

GH

[markwookungfu]

Originally Posted by GForce

Careful, this kind of thinking apparently can get you attacked!

GH

Why are people attacking you for being right? Sosa is way better...

[KILLERBS24]

3 posts in a row your good, now I feel better.

[GForce]

So far:

Green: 11 HR, 44 RBI, OPS 823 (Salary $8.5M)

Sosa: 9 HR, 26 RBI, OPS 719 (Salary $17.9M)

Watching the Yanks play Baltimore, I just can't believe how bad Sosa looks (of course, that he looks half the size of previous years may have something to do with that).

GH

[attackemu]

Originally Posted by GForce

So far:

Green: 11 HR, 44 RBI, OPS 823 (Salary $8.5M)

Sosa: 9 HR, 26 RBI, OPS 719 (Salary $17.9M)

Watching the Yanks play Baltimore, I just can't believe how bad Sosa looks (of course, that he looks half the size of previous years may have something to do with that).

GH

Killer BS= p\/\/n4d

[Dwolfson20]

Originally Posted by GForce

So far:

Green: 11 HR, 44 RBI, OPS 823 (Salary $8.5M)

Sosa: 9 HR, 26 RBI, OPS 719 (Salary $17.9M)

Watching the Yanks play Baltimore, I just can't believe how bad Sosa looks (of course, that he looks half the size of previous years may have something to do with that).

GH

I was absolutely floored when I saw Sosa for the first time this year.

I mean, you can hardly argue that he wasn't on steroids.

[Dwolfson20]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

his salary can be justified more than greens because Sosa will still hit 35-40 HRs.

In retrospect, this is quite the hilarious statement.