Truth about the future of OOTP - Page 4

CommishJoe · 09-20-2004, 12:22 PM

I've been a supporter of Markus and OOTP for a long time now (no, I'm not the "senior" member

). I've been beta testing for a while now, and have been dealing with Markus on the info needed for the exporter so I could create BOSI (which I was working on till I decided to browse these forums for a bit, unfortunately). Here's my 2 cents(which I understand isn't worth anymore then the next man .. just wanted to give a little background):

One hand -- This is the best baseball simulation on the market. I wouldn't have even dreamed of investing the time I have on BOSI for any other game. Markus has been very cooperative in my dealings with him, and is open to suggestions on how to make the game better. That is why I think it's turned out to be the best .. he listens to his customers. We get regular patches and updates, and by FAR get the best communication from the developers of any game I have played.

Other hand -- The commishes in the TLB (the league I started in June 2002) and I decided to wait to upgrade to v6 until next season (2-3 months). Why? Because we weren't confident in the abilities of v6 to run our league well. There are known issues in the importing of players from v5 to v6 that scared us, among other things. So, we decided to wait, hoping Markus would release another update. Looks like we'll get our wish, but I was sweating it a bit. I'll put it this way. I was strongly considering making BOSI v2 work with OOTP5 just in case the TLB (and other leagues) decided to never make the upgrade. Hopefully, this patch will make that un-necessary.

So, as you can see, I'm not trying to say everything is wonderful in OOTPland. There are definately issues that need to be addressed. But, I'm also not saying the sky is falling, and I'm not worried about dogs and cats living together (thanks Bill Murray from Ghostbusters). We've got a lot of posts on here from people who just like to hear themselves talk. We've got a bunch more from people who sound like the spoiled brat that lives across the street from me. Hopefully, those will start to die down a bit and we'll get back to helping Markus to make this great game even better.

BTW -- I've never cared about the manual or H2H so that is why I didn't address them here. Plus, Steve is working hard on the manual, so that "issue" should be resolved very shortly.

Cardinal Rule · 09-20-2004, 12:54 PM

Couple things here bother me so I'll mention them:

One - the use of the term 'unacceptable' is one of those alarmist, pound-your-fist-on-the-counter terms that business owners dislike greatly. If it is really unacceptable, demand a refund - and you'll probably get one. If, rather, you find it 'unfulfilling' or 'unsatisfying', well those terms are a bit different and suggest you may still be a loyal customer but would like improvement.

Two - we seem to have a restaurant analogy going here, and that's probably fair. But let's look at this from a slightly different angle - say the restaurant serves the best prime rib in town, price can't be beat, but the service is slow and the waitstaff can give you an attitude sometimes. So you have to ask yourself - is the tradeoff worth it? If it is - eat up!

I believe some of the complaining here has to do with the perceived lack of communication. That's fair. But consider this - what level of communication do you get from the programmers of your other favorite games? Is it in line with what you see here? Better? Worse? I just want you to think about whether you're looking at the entire situation in an objective way. Do you hold Markus to a higher standard? If so, why? Because you're used to it? Do you expect every commitment (whether explicit or implicit) to be honored completely? Is it that way everywhere else you do business?

I won't apologize for Markus, but I do think he's a fine programmer who has (by his own admission) overestimated his ability to do what he expected would be possible with OOTP6 in the time he has. So ultimately, that's what it comes down to. Markus tells us he's trying, and either you'll find that acceptable (whether unsatisfying or not) and remain a customer, or you'll find that unacceptable and ask for a refund. But I echo the comments of previous posters that would request you don't let this be a personal battle on either side.

rdklein · 09-20-2004, 02:12 PM

I agree that not having play by play sucks - because it WAS promised.

I like the fact that Markus was straight up and admitted that he got halfway into it and found out he had bitten off more than he could chew. Recent polls show that most people are still happy with the game... and if those who are not satisfied could recommend a better baseball sim then I'll gladly shelf OOTP. (I don't think you can, though.)

Back to the original post, I HATE SOCCER... but a few months ago, I downloaded the CM demo and ended up purchasing the game a few hours later. That game blew me away! I actually find myself watching soccer now on Fox Sports World.

If Markus is going to be working with the CM developers now - I for one am really exited about the future of this product.

RonCo · 09-20-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Wait a minute, where was it ever promised, as in guaranteed, absolutely postive, 100% definite that that feature was going to be included. Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but I'm pretty certain it was high on the list of hopes for it to be included, and that in the plans, but I do not ever recall seeing it touted as an absolute, iron-clad lock that it would be there.

Well, seeing that it's still listed as a "Coming Soon!" feature on the officially published OOTP Feature list, I would have to say that it probably qualifies as being promised.

jbmagic · 09-20-2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdklein

I agree that not having play by play sucks - because it WAS promised.

we do have play by play

rdklein · 09-20-2004, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

we do have play by play

Holy Moly, we do JP!!! Then what's all the fuss about?

lol

Just read the PBP suggestion thread.... and I think I got my acronyms messed up. Thanks jp.

jbmagic · 09-20-2004, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdklein

Holy Moly, we do JP!!! Then what's all the fuss about?

lol

Just read the PBP suggestion thread.... and I think I got my acronyms messed up. Thanks jp.

lol i think you meant no head to head, but we do have play by play

Jadetorc · 10-26-2004, 03:40 AM

Wow. I did a simple search for face packs and came upon this travesty of a thread.

You complain much.

Slackker · 10-26-2004, 07:12 AM

Glad to see this thread get bumped after six weeks, give or take. LoL. I know I'm not helping things by replying to it... but at least I got to scroll by the part where Eck said I posted something smart! *cry*

Anyhow.. seems like Markus did pretty much what I mentioned in my other post, and now most of us are content. Personally, my feelings about v6 have changed to the point where I'd consider v7. I like DFA, including it's imperfections. I actually started a season a few weeks ago! (and played a few years, and deleted it, and started a new one, and simmed a few years, and deleted it, and started a new one - just like the old days! I have that habit.)

I just figured I'd ask - Have a lot of our opinions changed since this thread? Particularly MD, Eck, Mat, and the others who were unhappy in this post?

Oh, and please don't hurt me for inviting MD to post his thoughts on the game!! =)

jcurtis423 · 10-26-2004, 07:21 AM

I'm happier with OOTP6 than I've ever been, and finally have the confidence to get knee deep into a new fictional solo league, the first one i've started in a loooong time. I also found that mine and others unsatisfaction with ootp6 was causing me to have less of an interest in my online leagues....however that too has passed and i've once again found the passion for this game that I had when I first picked OOTP3 up all those years ago.

now.... can i please have my old screenname back?

Dave Hansen · 10-26-2004, 09:26 AM

Great game!

Good guy!

But in the words of Han Solo to Luke Skywalker after shooting down his first TIE fighter:

"Great job, kid,.... but don't get cocky!"

Beach23BoyP · 10-26-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdklein

Back to the original post, I HATE SOCCER... but a few months ago, I downloaded the CM demo and ended up purchasing the game a few hours later. That game blew me away! I actually find myself watching soccer now on Fox Sports World.

If Markus is going to be working with the CM developers now - I for one am really exited about the future of this product.

My daughter plays on a Select Soccer team and about two years ago I started watching soccer (no football) on Fox Sports World. My wife thought I was crazy since I had claimed in the past that I'd rather watch paint dry than to watch a soccer game. I told her that I was going to find out why 5 billion people around the globe love this game so much.

Well, I got "completely and totally" addicted. English Premier is where it is and I no longer watch NFL games where most of time (3.5 hours) is spent huddling any way. And there is zero chance I'll watch a four hour baseball game anymore and I quit watching that hot-dogging NBA garbage years and years ago. Yes, when you "really understand" soccer it becomes a "passion"!

If you think CM03/04 was good -- then you're in for a real thrill with "Football Manager 2005" (or in the US and Canada "Worldwide Soccer Manager 2005"). The game is light years ahead of OOTP6, PureSim 2004 or any other sports text sim ever produced. The depth and difficulty of the sim is simply unexplainable. It has to be experienced to understand what I'm talking about. Last year I gave up on CM03/04 because it was too difficult for me, but this year (after watching another year of EPL on Fox) I think I'm up to the challenge. Only problem is my OOTP 50s/60s solo repleay will suffer a bit.

BTW, what I love so much about FM2005 is that I can manager a "Conference club" (Hereford United) which is like managing your "Single A" ball club in OOTP6. Now wouldn't that be interesting??? Also, incrediable as it may seem FM2005 comes with 5,400 teams you can manage and a database of over 300,000 players!!!

Anyway, if Markus stays with SI Games and adapts "just parts" of FM2005 to his great OOTP program -- then I predict that no one here will believe how good OOTP7, 8 or 9 will be! I just hope it all works out that way.

jnshmoo · 10-26-2004, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach23BoyP

My daughter plays on a Select Soccer team and about two years ago I started watching soccer (no football) on Fox Sports World. My wife thought I was crazy since I had claimed in the past that I'd rather watch paint dry than to watch a soccer game. I told her that I was going to find out why 5 billion people around the globe love this game so much.

Well, I got "completely and totally" addicted. English Premier is where it is and I no longer watch NFL games where most of time (3.5 hours) is spent huddling any way. And there is zero chance I'll watch a four hour baseball game anymore and I quit watching that hot-dogging NBA garbage years and years ago. Yes, when you "really understand" soccer it becomes a "passion"!

If you think CM03/04 was good -- then you're in for a real thrill with "Football Manager 2005" (or in the US and Canada "Worldwide Soccer Manager 2005"). The game is light years ahead of OOTP6, PureSim 2004 or any other sports text sim ever produced. The depth and difficulty of the sim is simply unexplainable. It has to be experienced to understand what I'm talking about. Last year I gave up on CM03/04 because it was too difficult for me, but this year (after watching another year of EPL on Fox) I think I'm up to the challenge. Only problem is my OOTP 50s/60s solo repleay will suffer a bit.

BTW, what I love so much about FM2005 is that I can manager a "Conference club" (Hereford United) which is like managing your "Single A" ball club in OOTP6. Now wouldn't that be interesting??? Also, incrediable as it may seem FM2005 comes with 5,400 teams you can manage and a database of over 300,000 players!!!

Anyway, if Markus stays with SI Games and adapts "just parts" of FM2005 to his great OOTP program -- then I predict that no one here will believe how good OOTP7, 8 or 9 will be! I just hope it all works out that way.

Speaking as another big fan of European Football and The CM/FM series of games (and has been playing the same team since they were in Division 2) I agree totally. I think Markus has incredible potential with SI and I can only hope that it comes to fruition.

Now if only DirecTv would make Fox Sports World a friggin' ala carte channel I'll be a happy man.

sahyder1 · 10-26-2004, 11:43 AM

DELETED BY ADMIN.

09-20-2004, 12:22 PM	#61
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	I've been a supporter of Markus and OOTP for a long time now (no, I'm not the "senior" member ). I've been beta testing for a while now, and have been dealing with Markus on the info needed for the exporter so I could create BOSI (which I was working on till I decided to browse these forums for a bit, unfortunately). Here's my 2 cents(which I understand isn't worth anymore then the next man .. just wanted to give a little background): One hand -- This is the best baseball simulation on the market. I wouldn't have even dreamed of investing the time I have on BOSI for any other game. Markus has been very cooperative in my dealings with him, and is open to suggestions on how to make the game better. That is why I think it's turned out to be the best .. he listens to his customers. We get regular patches and updates, and by FAR get the best communication from the developers of any game I have played. Other hand -- The commishes in the TLB (the league I started in June 2002) and I decided to wait to upgrade to v6 until next season (2-3 months). Why? Because we weren't confident in the abilities of v6 to run our league well. There are known issues in the importing of players from v5 to v6 that scared us, among other things. So, we decided to wait, hoping Markus would release another update. Looks like we'll get our wish, but I was sweating it a bit. I'll put it this way. I was strongly considering making BOSI v2 work with OOTP5 just in case the TLB (and other leagues) decided to never make the upgrade. Hopefully, this patch will make that un-necessary. So, as you can see, I'm not trying to say everything is wonderful in OOTPland. There are definately issues that need to be addressed. But, I'm also not saying the sky is falling, and I'm not worried about dogs and cats living together (thanks Bill Murray from Ghostbusters). We've got a lot of posts on here from people who just like to hear themselves talk. We've got a bunch more from people who sound like the spoiled brat that lives across the street from me. Hopefully, those will start to die down a bit and we'll get back to helping Markus to make this great game even better. BTW -- I've never cared about the manual or H2H so that is why I didn't address them here. Plus, Steve is working hard on the manual, so that "issue" should be resolved very shortly. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

09-20-2004, 12:54 PM	#62
Cardinal Rule All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Omaha Posts: 1,199	Couple things here bother me so I'll mention them: One - the use of the term 'unacceptable' is one of those alarmist, pound-your-fist-on-the-counter terms that business owners dislike greatly. If it is really unacceptable, demand a refund - and you'll probably get one. If, rather, you find it 'unfulfilling' or 'unsatisfying', well those terms are a bit different and suggest you may still be a loyal customer but would like improvement. Two - we seem to have a restaurant analogy going here, and that's probably fair. But let's look at this from a slightly different angle - say the restaurant serves the best prime rib in town, price can't be beat, but the service is slow and the waitstaff can give you an attitude sometimes. So you have to ask yourself - is the tradeoff worth it? If it is - eat up! I believe some of the complaining here has to do with the perceived lack of communication. That's fair. But consider this - what level of communication do you get from the programmers of your other favorite games? Is it in line with what you see here? Better? Worse? I just want you to think about whether you're looking at the entire situation in an objective way. Do you hold Markus to a higher standard? If so, why? Because you're used to it? Do you expect every commitment (whether explicit or implicit) to be honored completely? Is it that way everywhere else you do business? I won't apologize for Markus, but I do think he's a fine programmer who has (by his own admission) overestimated his ability to do what he expected would be possible with OOTP6 in the time he has. So ultimately, that's what it comes down to. Markus tells us he's trying, and either you'll find that acceptable (whether unsatisfying or not) and remain a customer, or you'll find that unacceptable and ask for a refund. But I echo the comments of previous posters that would request you don't let this be a personal battle on either side. __________________ "Go Crazy Folks!" Jack Buck

10-26-2004, 03:40 AM	#68
Jadetorc Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 50	Wow. I did a simple search for face packs and came upon this travesty of a thread. You complain much. __________________ "Clemente could field the ball in New York and throw out a guy in Pennsylvania." -- Vin Scully

10-26-2004, 11:43 AM	#74
sahyder1 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 150	DELETED BY ADMIN. __________________ ayazhyder@yahoo.com AIM- sahyder1 A Sports Forum I run Last edited by sahyder1; 10-26-2004 at 11:45 AM.

09-20-2004, 02:12 PM	#63
rdklein All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The other side. Posts: 773	I agree that not having play by play sucks - because it WAS promised. I like the fact that Markus was straight up and admitted that he got halfway into it and found out he had bitten off more than he could chew. Recent polls show that most people are still happy with the game... and if those who are not satisfied could recommend a better baseball sim then I'll gladly shelf OOTP. (I don't think you can, though.) Back to the original post, I HATE SOCCER... but a few months ago, I downloaded the CM demo and ended up purchasing the game a few hours later. That game blew me away! I actually find myself watching soccer now on Fox Sports World. If Markus is going to be working with the CM developers now - I for one am really exited about the future of this product.

10-26-2004, 07:12 AM	#69
Slackker All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Connecticut Posts: 777	Glad to see this thread get bumped after six weeks, give or take. LoL. I know I'm not helping things by replying to it... but at least I got to scroll by the part where Eck said I posted something smart! cry Anyhow.. seems like Markus did pretty much what I mentioned in my other post, and now most of us are content. Personally, my feelings about v6 have changed to the point where I'd consider v7. I like DFA, including it's imperfections. I actually started a season a few weeks ago! (and played a few years, and deleted it, and started a new one, and simmed a few years, and deleted it, and started a new one - just like the old days! I have that habit.) I just figured I'd ask - Have a lot of our opinions changed since this thread? Particularly MD, Eck, Mat, and the others who were unhappy in this post? Oh, and please don't hurt me for inviting MD to post his thoughts on the game!! =)

10-26-2004, 07:21 AM	#70
jcurtis423 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 57	I'm happier with OOTP6 than I've ever been, and finally have the confidence to get knee deep into a new fictional solo league, the first one i've started in a loooong time. I also found that mine and others unsatisfaction with ootp6 was causing me to have less of an interest in my online leagues....however that too has passed and i've once again found the passion for this game that I had when I first picked OOTP3 up all those years ago. now.... can i please have my old screenname back?

10-26-2004, 09:26 AM	#71
Dave Hansen Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 345	Great game! Good guy! But in the words of Han Solo to Luke Skywalker after shooting down his first TIE fighter: "Great job, kid,.... but don't get cocky!"