When is OOTP6 going to be stable and working?

[jbmagic]

Ragnar , are u using real rosters or fictional roster

[Ragnar]

This is my solo league from OOTP4 converted over twice. It's the career league that came with the game in my 48th season. I'm using no add ons. Everything except coaches and scouts is turned on.

[jbmagic]

the waiver problems seems like it with real rosters...there alot of good players with high stars compare to fictional league and default leagues (career league that came with game)

so it seems like the cpu cant handle waivers well at all with there alot of minor league prospects with high stars in the minors league..there geting put on waivers alot...


ootp needs to fix it so the cpu teams dont do so many waivers, releases, free agents signing during the season....

i wish there was a setting , where u can control how much waivers, releases, and free agents during the season the cpu teams does.....like you can for trades where u can put it on low, normal, high, very low, etc....

[Night2000]

Now this is really something to see! Funny how human nature is huh? Many of you here, who were perfectly happy with previous versions. Were always quick to jump on anyone else who complained about certain features that either weren't working correctly. Or features that others wanted to be added. Now the shoes on the other foot and many of you don't like it. What happened to be patient and give Markus a chance to work things out? How many of you couldn't wait to post in the past and *Thank* Markus for all his great work? Others, and myself have been waiting since OOTP3 for Markus to add certain features to make the games play more realistically when playing them out.

No need for me to re-hash them over again. The point is I made my points, and even wrote Markus at his e-mail addy. What I'm seeing here is like a mini rebellion. LOL.. Give Markus a chance to make things right. Sure a lot of you are disappointed right now, but try to be patient. Hell I've been patient since OOTP3. One thing I do want to address is the slowdown issue.

Maybe it's possible that Markus will be able to tweak the code to speed it up as it was. Or maybe he can't because the AI is doing more calculations under the hood. The fact is we wanted the AI to be better. So obviously if it is doing more stuff, then it's perfectly reasonable to expect the game to slowdown some. Give the man a chance to make things right. I'm far from being a Fanboy, but I'm also fair enough to recognize that Markus has created a great game for us. That may not be perfect, but is pretty damn good.

[jbmagic]

but ootp 6 is using a new engine..that should makes things better you would think

[holyroller]

Originally posted by Bears5122
My post will be short and simple:

I think ITP really hurt OOTP. I think time normally spent working on OOTP in the offseason wasn't and the game felt very rushed. It felt like Markus woke up one day in February and said "sh!t, let's put something together".

While I think the last sentence is a considerable overstatement, I agree with the thrust. Adding the DIPS engine was a considerable undertaking, and the loss of development time for 6 that was expended on ITP is really, to my mind, inexcusable. I thought so at the time and had few people agree with me. I seriously think the best thing for the game at this point would be for Markus to take a large amount of time to fix features that are in the game which don't work properly and add features which have been promised but not delivered. Of course, I realize that this simply isn't going to happen.

[holyroller]

Originally posted by Night2000
What happened to be patient and give Markus a chance to work things out?

Not to be a dick, but we are on patch number two here, it's not like we are jumping all over a game which has just been released. Waivers don't work right (all of you who wonder what we are talking about, the waivers still don't follow major league rules and the AI seems to have no freaking idea what the hell they are doing and release top prospects all the time), you still can't enter pitchers stats in the editor (in****ingexcusable in my mind), there is no h2h, there is no financial co-efficient (no, it wasn't promised for v6, it was promised for ****ing v5 and still isn't here) and the game still has multiple small annoyances that are too many to recount here.

[silvam14]

Originally posted by holyroller
Not to be a dick, but we are on patch number two here, it's not like we are jumping all over a game which has just been released. Waivers don't work right (all of you who wonder what we are talking about, the waivers still don't follow major league rules and the AI seems to have no freaking idea what the hell they are doing and release top prospects all the time), you still can't enter pitchers stats in the editor (in****ingexcusable in my mind), there is no h2h, there is no financial co-efficient (no, it wasn't promised for v6, it was promised for ****ing v5 and still isn't here) and the game still has multiple small annoyances that are too many to recount here.

What's a financial co-efficient, and why would it be so important an addition?

[holyroller]

As is obvious from my last two posts, I am among the dissatisfied. However, I think it is only fair to state the reason for my feelings. If the status quo had been maintained, I probably would still be a fanboy and give Markus a huge benefit of the doubt based on his track record. However, there are three things which have caused me to change my perception. First was the development time spent on ITP. OOTP5 was a great game, but by no means perfect. Developing another game seemed and seems to me a fools errand. I thought at the time it was announced that Markus was stretching himself too thin and the state of this release only reinforced that. Second is the state of this release itself and the lack of any real presence or commentary from Markus on the board. In the past, as Rizon mentioned, Markus was on the boards far more often and was much more open and transparent with the fan base. Lastly, and most importantly, is the merger with SI. The specter of a merger with a company notorious for the RPG aspects to its games as well as slow sim time is bad enough, but the mere mention of ML licensing sends chills down my spine. Is OOTPD changing its priorities? In the past, the company has at least seemed to be more concerned with its loyal customers rather than adding new ones (while still being open to new customers). It seems that now they are changing their aims and are targeting a mass audience at the expense of the people who have been around for a long time, know the game inside and out, and recognize that there are flaws which need to be fixed. My big fear is that we are going to be pushed aside in favor of the bottom line. Maybe you hard core capitalists don't see anything wrong with that and it certainly will make Markus more money, but I think the game itself is going to suffer for it. In the end, that is all I care about. If the next release is similar to this one, I can't picture myself paying for it.

[holyroller]

Originally posted by silvam14
What's a financial co-efficient, and why would it be so important an addition?

The short-hand explanation is that it is a feature which allows historical simmers to adjust player salaries, ticket prices, TV contracts and etc downward based on the era you are playing in. As an example, the highest played player in the fifties would make 100k or so rather than having the financial structure based upon modern baseball, as it is now.

[D Love]

The number of complaints on OOT6 is troubling and has delayed my upgrade from OOTP5. However, with respect to the complaints that Markus "wasted" time on ITP, I think they are off-base.

Let me first say I thought and still think ITP was a tremendously stupid idea. And it seems that after its novelty wore off, many agreed.

With that said, I don't see how anyone has the right to criticize Markus for progamming it. To call his creation of ITP "inexcusable" leads to the inevitable conclusion that Markus CANNOT program any other games except for OOTP. Keep in mind he never accepted payments for OOTP6 prior to releasing ITP. It's not like he promised to come out with OOTP6, took money for it, and then blew it off.

Contrary to what everyone thinks, Markus has no obligation to come out with any further OOTP versions. We're NOT entitled to anything. So to chastise him for doing something he wanted to is simply wrong.

I think you should be clear that your criticism is not necessarily with ITP, but Markus seemingly rushed attempt to squeeze in OOTP6 despite having less amount of time to program it due to ITP.

Perhaps he should have delayed OOTP6 (clearly stating that it wouldn't be out until "mid summer" or something or other). Perhaps he shouldn't have attempted to do so much in OOTP6 given the shortened time frame. But in any event, I don't think we should act as if we have any entitlement to future versions of OOTP or that Markus is required to commit himself to solely OOTP (except after he has started accepting money for it).

One notion no one has mentioned is that the merger with SI must have taken up time in both planning and contemplating. So add ITP and the SI merger, and OOTP6 probably should have been delayed into June or July.

Given that OOTP7 won't be out until Fall of '05, that also would have made the transitiion that less painful to wait for. Of course, the fact that Markus announced the merger some 3 weeks after the release of OOTP6 makes me think he could use some marketing classes.

[stick52]

Like everyone else, I was anxious for the release of OOTP6. Like kids on Xmas, we were told to be patient; that the game would be released when it was tested and ready and not a moment sooner. OK, I can live with that. And yet, when it was released, it appeared to not have been tested at all !!! I'm willing to accept the fact that there is no such thing as a bug-free release but you can't have it both ways. You're either going to delay release until a majority of the bugs are addressed or you're going to release and catch the bugs as they appear. Some of the bugs showing up in later versions appear to be the size of Godzilla! How were they missed in testing?

[silvam14]

Originally posted by holyroller
The short-hand explanation is that it is a feature which allows historical simmers to adjust player salaries, ticket prices, TV contracts and etc downward based on the era you are playing in. As an example, the highest played player in the fifties would make 100k or so rather than having the financial structure based upon modern baseball, as it is now.

Oh, thanks man, that would make sense to have that. It would be kind of weird to have Cy Young making 8 Mil a year wouldn't it?

[Malleus Dei]

Markus & Company:

1. ITP was a mistake, and never should have been even considered. In the business world, Rule One is NEVER LOSE YOUR FOCUS ON YOUR CORE BUSINESS. Your core business, OOTP, is noticeably worse off for ITP having been made. This is costing you customers and customer loyalty (see thread above).

2. The board is screwed up beyond belief and doesn't work more often than it does work. Someone is simply not doing his job; it's not that difficult to run a message board properly with all features on. Take care of this ASAP.

3. New features should not have been introduced during the OOTP6 beta testing period. As a long-time OOTP beta tester (who was gone when 6 was tested) I know just how hard it is to figure out if things are working right in a beta test. Adding new features into the mix while beta testing is active is not wise. New feature introduction should be frozen during beta testing; sure, you can develop them, but don't add them to the test version until the beta testing of the current version is completed and you have a rock-solid and stable version to add them to.

4. OOTP6 needs work. There are not only annoying new bugs but there are a whole lot of annoying and well-known unaddressed long-term bugs, and there are a lot of features that needed to be added around version 4 (dollar figures vanishing when financials are off, for example; there are lots of others). Instead of adding a new engine - and I like the new engine, don't get me wrong - OOTP6 should have been devoted to getting all the bugs squashed and all the long-requested game features added, and then OOTP 6.2 or OOTP7 should have been the version with the new engine.

5. I don't need a manual, or even think that one is important, but I'm at one end of the OOTP user bell curve and the newbies are at the other. Reading the cries here has forced me to reluctantly conclude that the game really does, indeed, need a manual, and needs one fairly quickly.

Bottom line: fix the message board, release a manual, and freeze further OOTP6 development until you have squashed all the new bugs, and, more importantly, ALL of the unaddressed long-term bugs (there's a list, make sure that you cross all of them off before going on), and then after that go back and add the features that we have been lobbying for and that have needed to be added to the game since version 4. Yes, futher game development is fun and great, but squashing bugs is much more important and much more necessary, and after that you need to add the features that we have been yelling about for years. THEN move on. I know, that sounds a lot like real work, but your choices are either to do that or have a lot of angry customers with long-term grievances on your hands. The latter is a terrible business practice; in business, your customers are your lifeblood. If they aren't happy, then you're doing things wrong - and right now, they aren't happy, which should tell you everything that you need to know.

Summary bottom line: you need to pay more attention to your customers. Less flash, less other products, more bug fixing, more focus.

On the postive side, OOTP overall is nothing less than brilliant, and your work over the years has been outstanding - but that doesn't change the bottom line one bit.

Sincerely,

The senior member of this board

[Bluenoser]

Originally posted by D Love
We're NOT entitled to anything.

I don't think we should act as if we have any entitlement to future versions of OOTP or that Markus is required to commit himself to solely OOTP.

I think we are reading a different thread than you.

We ARE entitled to a game that functions properly as advertised.

I don't see anyone stating they are entitled to future versions of the game. I see people asking for something they ARE entitled to, and that is what they paid for. Thus far OOTPD has NOT delivered.

Unfortunately the search function is disabled or I would gladly find the thread where we were promised H2H a few weeks after release. When all the hoopla about early release was started, in a thread by Markus I might add, he stated that within a few weeks H2H would be added. More than a few weeks have passed. In my opinion OOTPD falsly advertised. I pre-purchased on the understanding that H2H would be included. I made mention of the fact in the eraly release thread that this is exactly what would happen, H2H would keep getting pushed to the right and eventually (I hope I'm wrong) wind up down the same road as the "promised" financial co-efficient. When Markus decided to realease the game without H2H and promised it would be in within a few weeks, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I'll not be fooled by false promises from OOTPD again. Unfortunately the 30 day refund period has passed, or I would be seeking a full refund. A product that was advertised has NOT been delivered as advertised, and I am entitled to voice my concerns about that and expect it to be delivered within a reasonable period of time, which has long since passed.

I for one will not purchase another product from OOTPD until I am sure it delivers what it advertises.

[darkhorse]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Markus & Company:

1. ITP was a mistake, and never should have been even considered.

2. The board is screwed up beyond belief

3. New features should not have been introduced during the OOTP6 beta testing period.

4. OOTP6 needs work.

5. Reading the cries here has forced me to reluctantly conclude that the game really does, indeed, need a manual, and needs one fairly quickly.

Bottom line: fix the message board, release a manual, and freeze further OOTP6 development until you have squashed all the new bugs, and, more importantly, ALL of the unaddressed long-term bugs

Summary bottom line: you need to pay more attention to your customers. Less flash, less other products, more bug fixing, more focus.

On the postive side, OOTP overall is nothing less than brilliant, and your work over the years has been outstanding - but that doesn't change the bottom line one bit.

Sincerely,

The senior member of this board

Babe Ruth quality post.

[jazzrack]

hmmm, i was think manny mendoza

[statfreak]

Originally posted by jazzrack
hmmm, i was think manny mendoza

You mean Mario Mendoza...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mendoma01.shtml


FWIW, Malleus is mostly right, as usual...

[D Love]

BruceM,

When I was talking about not being entitled to anything, I was referring to OOTP6 BEFORE Markus started accepting prepayments. The description of ITP's creation as "inexcusable" necessarily implies that Markus had some obligation to create OOTP6. I am disagreeing with that implication.

If Markus decides to spend the rest of his life progamming ITP, that is not "inexcusable". It's his choice to make.

I 100% agree that once he started accepting money and promising features, then he has an obligation to fulfill those expectations and we ARE entitled at that point.

Again, I was just talking about statements that assume Markus has no right to do anything other than program OOTP for here to eternity.

[Dan Theman]

Passionate, vigorous, and intelligent. Why do I somehow not find these qualities in High Heat and MVP threads? (rhetorical question, by the way)

Malleus - excellent post. I have a couple of fairly minor disagreements, but it's always refreshing to read well-organized, thoughtful post.