100% CPU bug - Page 4

marioh · 03-13-2002, 12:10 PM

I'm almost positive that 68% was not CPU processor usage, but rather system resources.

People tend to mix those up frequently.

JML · 03-13-2002, 12:46 PM

[quote]Originally posted by marioh:
I have not seen any performance degradation in any other applications while OOTP4 runs (non CPU intensive apps such as IE, notepad, etc.) and I'm able to switch between programs without any problems. The game seems to be doing nothing, yet the CPU util is at 100%. It almost seems like the game is in a pseudo endless loop awaiting the next user input into the game.<hr></blockquote>

I'm in the same boat, which is why I'm not upset about the lack of attention this problem has gotten. But I'm very curious why this is occurring, and if my multi-tasking would become even better/faster if it were addressed.

mwolin · 03-13-2002, 01:15 PM

Glen,

I appreciate your assessment of Compaq tech support, although to be fair,OOTP4 is the onlyprogram I own that behaves this way..shuts off after about 20 minutes of running. Is it overheating, CPU usage or an XP bug..who knows? Other processor intensive applications (like action games etc.) dont cause the system to shut off. I wonder if this is an xp power management issue since similar events have occured with NT. Anyway, I would be interested in your thoughts.

blynch10 · 03-13-2002, 01:36 PM

I have OOTP4 installed on a 700Mhz Pentium with 256 MB ram,1Ghz Athlon with 384 MB ram, and a 233Mhz Pentium with 160MB ram. All of them run on W2k and all of them run at 100% processor time.
I haven't seen any major problems with this besides sometimes when switching between windows OOTP4 won't respond(even if it was sitting there idle)and I have to close the window down. Luckily I just hit enter after sending the close command and it saves my game(seems that OOTP is still running but the screen will not refresh.)

But I am very curious why the game runs the processor the way it does. I'm sure 99.9% of the people playing the game (if they have an OS that will show them process cpu time) will see this.

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: blynch10 ]

Yossarian · 03-13-2002, 01:46 PM

[quote]Originally posted by marioh:
In a way though, I think that 100% utilization is deceiving. I have not seen any performance degradation in any other applications while OOTP4 runs (non CPU intensive apps such as IE, notepad, etc.) and I'm able to switch between programs without any problems. <hr></blockquote>

Threads (programs) are given different priorities by your cpu. When you open one of those other programs, they have priority but all extra cpu cycles are still being devoted to OOTP. Your currently-active program should run fine (unless you're out of memory or something).

JML · 03-13-2002, 03:16 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Yossarian:


Threads (programs) are given different priorities by your cpu. When you open one of those other programs, they have priority but all extra cpu cycles are still being devoted to OOTP. Your currently-active program should run fine (unless you're out of memory or something).<hr></blockquote>

So, for those of us not having overheating/shutdown problems, it's really sort of a non-issue, right? OOTP takes up all cpu cycles, but if something needs them, OOTP will share like a good kindergartener?

Khaos · 03-13-2002, 03:26 PM

I still don't care for the idea though. Fine OOTP steps aside and lets another process in, but like anything else in life, the more something gets used the higher chance of performance degradation over time. Now I know the CPU isn't like a HD with a definite shelf life, but constant usage is a little worrisome.

BleacherBum · 03-13-2002, 05:59 PM

Well, if it is a non-issue, it would be nice to hear from the folks at OOTP, something along the lines of:
1) we recognize the issue
2) this is why it occurs (perhaps it is intentional)
and
3a) here's how it can be prevented or
3b) here's why it isn't a concern

Instead of "hey, I dont' see it on my computer, must not be our problem..."

marioh · 03-13-2002, 06:21 PM

[quote]So, for those of us not having overheating/shutdown problems, it's really sort of a non-issue, right?<hr></blockquote>

Right. If it was never fixed, I wouldn't think any less of the game.

I think the overheating issue will only be on a small percentage of PC's, with laptops probably being the most susceptible.

JimboJones · 03-13-2002, 06:41 PM

Its more than just an overheating issue. Its a performance issue. Normally when I run my notebook, the fan doesn't come on unless I've had the computer on for a couple hours. When I start up OOTP, the fan comes on within a few minutes and runs constantly. But the computer has never shut down due to overheating.

Now maybe this will harm my CPU, and maybe it won't. The point is that no program should use 100% CPU when doing nothing. Then I wouldn't have to worry about whether its causing long term damage to my computer. I would think desktop users should feel the same way. The only difference is dekstop units have the fan running constantly anyway, so the problem goes unnoticed.

Yossarian · 03-13-2002, 09:14 PM

[quote]Originally posted by JML:
So, for those of us not having overheating/shutdown problems, it's really sort of a non-issue, right? OOTP takes up all cpu cycles, but if something needs them, OOTP will share like a good kindergartener?<hr></blockquote>

Heat decreases the life of a cpu. 100% load maximizes heat output (regardless of your cooling solution), and makes earlier cpu failure more likely. Granted it may die in 3 years instead of 4 but temperature and processor life are definitely related.

theDutchman · 03-13-2002, 10:03 PM

[quote]This could be because it doesn't seem to be effecting some PC's... so its still unclear if this is an OOTP problem or a PC problem... or some combination thereof. A member of the development team posted in this thread and mentioned that his CPU was only at 68% while running the game...<hr></blockquote>

1. If it were a PC problem, it would do this while running other software, it doesn't.

2. Chances are, the guy running at 68% did not actually look at current CPU usage but at what percent of his resources were free. If I am not mistaken, resources free deals with RAM and generally implies that you have quite a bit of programs running at startup. It seems like a CPU hog, but it's actually a RAM bottleneck.

I am certain that a lack of response from the development team is because they aren't sure what to do at this point. It could be disasterous if they said they were working on the problem and then couldn't find a solution. So chances are they are looking into it but just aren't mentioning it.

Give them some time, they seem like a very dedicated bunch that won't leave any stones unturned. At least that is my impression.

JML · 03-14-2002, 06:03 AM

[quote]Originally posted by theDutchman:


Give them some time, they seem like a very dedicated bunch that won't leave any stones unturned. At least that is my impression.<hr></blockquote>

I wholeheartedly agree with this impression. It's important to remember that the team is only a handful of people. They have a lot on their plate trying to make as many people happy as possible. I'm condfident that this problem IS getting attention, but they don't want to respond until they have a definitive explanation/solution.

BleacherBum · 03-14-2002, 09:03 AM

From the testimonials I've read in numerous postings in here, I can't argue that last point, and with time it may be dealt with.
Unfortunately, my timetable is based on their return policy, which is 8 days.

theDutchman · 03-14-2002, 07:06 PM

BleacherBum,

Well, this is America, and anytime you get an offer from a software company to return a game and you are not satisfied, do it!

Then when you think they have patched the game adequately you can always return and re-order the product.

JML · 03-15-2002, 05:00 AM

Good point Dutchman, and since it's available as a download, it wouldn't even involve multiplt trips to the store...

BleacherBum · 03-15-2002, 06:46 AM

Right on, Dutchman! Anyway, I'll be back in a month or so - see if anything's changed. Hope they are successful in addressing it.

By the way, for those Win98 users who think they may not be experiencing this issue, the thing you should check is the System Monitor, not the Resource Monitor. The System Monitor will show you kernel processor % utlitization - I predict that you will see this hit the peak and stay there. If you don't have the System Monitor tool, you can add it via Add/Remove windows components (and with your Win98 CD in hand). I suggest the OOTP Developers attempt this as well - the 68% reading you indicated in a previous post is misleading. (the resource monitor is showing free memory, which is irrelevant)

BasicGuy · 03-15-2002, 07:20 AM

BleacherBum while I hope I'm wrong on this....I have a feeling I wont be. This wont be fixed In a month or two. I dont remember for sure or not If this was a problem in V1 since It was a dos based program. But from In Version 2 on this has happened(the 100% problem).

I know that Orginal V2 was dos also but I dont have access to it anymore(My CD Is Cracked

) to check if this was something that happened In the dos version there either.

Now people this Is not a bug....A bug is something that happens that wasnt suppose to. I have a feeling that however the game was coded is the reasoning behind this not a bug.

Brad

BleacherBum · 03-15-2002, 02:14 PM

The original poster of this topic concurs on that point - this has been around for awhile. And as far as the "bug" or "not a bug" goes, everyone has their own take on it. No other software I've run across (or developed) behaves in this manner - any of those programs could, but they don't. If the vendor considers this good software design, then I think an explanation would be easy to provide, and is warranted.

BasicGuy · 03-15-2002, 03:16 PM

I figured out the 100% cpu usage problem...

The OOTP Team Is Conspireing with AMD & Intel to shorten the life span of our cpu's.....Why you might say what would steve or markus have to gain?
Intel & Amd are giveing them 5% commisions on all cpu's ootp users buy.

This Was A

JOKE

JUST INCASE YOU MISSED THE LAST LINE......THIS WAS A JOKE

Brad

03-13-2002, 12:10 PM	#61
marioh All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 1,162	I'm almost positive that 68% was not CPU processor usage, but rather system resources. People tend to mix those up frequently. __________________ RZA - "I'm me and the me that's me is me and is going to continue to be me"

03-13-2002, 12:46 PM	#62
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	[quote]Originally posted by marioh: <strong>I have not seen any performance degradation in any other applications while OOTP4 runs (non CPU intensive apps such as IE, notepad, etc.) and I'm able to switch between programs without any problems. The game seems to be doing nothing, yet the CPU util is at 100%. It almost seems like the game is in a pseudo endless loop awaiting the next user input into the game.</strong><hr></blockquote> I'm in the same boat, which is why I'm not upset about the lack of attention this problem has gotten. But I'm very curious why this is occurring, and if my multi-tasking would become even better/faster if it were addressed.

03-13-2002, 01:36 PM	#64
blynch10 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 273	I have OOTP4 installed on a 700Mhz Pentium with 256 MB ram,1Ghz Athlon with 384 MB ram, and a 233Mhz Pentium with 160MB ram. All of them run on W2k and all of them run at 100% processor time. I haven't seen any major problems with this besides sometimes when switching between windows OOTP4 won't respond(even if it was sitting there idle)and I have to close the window down. Luckily I just hit enter after sending the close command and it saves my game(seems that OOTP is still running but the screen will not refresh.) But I am very curious why the game runs the processor the way it does. I'm sure 99.9% of the people playing the game (if they have an OS that will show them process cpu time) will see this. [ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: blynch10 ]</p>

03-13-2002, 01:46 PM	#65
Yossarian Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 87	[quote]Originally posted by marioh: <strong>In a way though, I think that 100% utilization is deceiving. I have not seen any performance degradation in any other applications while OOTP4 runs (non CPU intensive apps such as IE, notepad, etc.) and I'm able to switch between programs without any problems. </strong><hr></blockquote> Threads (programs) are given different priorities by your cpu. When you open one of those other programs, they have priority but all extra cpu cycles are still being devoted to OOTP. Your currently-active program should run fine (unless you're out of memory or something).

03-13-2002, 03:16 PM	#66
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	[quote]Originally posted by Yossarian: <strong> Threads (programs) are given different priorities by your cpu. When you open one of those other programs, they have priority but all extra cpu cycles are still being devoted to OOTP. Your currently-active program should run fine (unless you're out of memory or something).</strong><hr></blockquote> So, for those of us not having overheating/shutdown problems, it's really sort of a non-issue, right? OOTP takes up all cpu cycles, but if something needs them, OOTP will share like a good kindergartener?

03-13-2002, 01:15 PM	#63
mwolin Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 15	Glen, I appreciate your assessment of Compaq tech support, although to be fair,OOTP4 is the onlyprogram I own that behaves this way..shuts off after about 20 minutes of running. Is it overheating, CPU usage or an XP bug..who knows? Other processor intensive applications (like action games etc.) dont cause the system to shut off. I wonder if this is an xp power management issue since similar events have occured with NT. Anyway, I would be interested in your thoughts.

03-13-2002, 03:26 PM	#67
Khaos Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canfield, OH Posts: 473	I still don't care for the idea though. Fine OOTP steps aside and lets another process in, but like anything else in life, the more something gets used the higher chance of performance degradation over time. Now I know the CPU isn't like a HD with a definite shelf life, but constant usage is a little worrisome. __________________ squish

03-13-2002, 05:59 PM	#68
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	Well, if it is a non-issue, it would be nice to hear from the folks at OOTP, something along the lines of: 1) we recognize the issue 2) this is why it occurs (perhaps it is intentional) and 3a) here's how it can be prevented or 3b) here's why it isn't a concern Instead of "hey, I dont' see it on my computer, must not be our problem..." __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-13-2002, 06:21 PM	#69
marioh All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 1,162	[quote]So, for those of us not having overheating/shutdown problems, it's really sort of a non-issue, right?<hr></blockquote> Right. If it was never fixed, I wouldn't think any less of the game. I think the overheating issue will only be on a small percentage of PC's, with laptops probably being the most susceptible. __________________ RZA - "I'm me and the me that's me is me and is going to continue to be me"

03-13-2002, 06:41 PM	#70
JimboJones Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 210	Its more than just an overheating issue. Its a performance issue. Normally when I run my notebook, the fan doesn't come on unless I've had the computer on for a couple hours. When I start up OOTP, the fan comes on within a few minutes and runs constantly. But the computer has never shut down due to overheating. Now maybe this will harm my CPU, and maybe it won't. The point is that no program should use 100% CPU when doing nothing. Then I wouldn't have to worry about whether its causing long term damage to my computer. I would think desktop users should feel the same way. The only difference is dekstop units have the fan running constantly anyway, so the problem goes unnoticed.

03-13-2002, 09:14 PM	#71
Yossarian Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 87	[quote]Originally posted by JML: <strong>So, for those of us not having overheating/shutdown problems, it's really sort of a non-issue, right? OOTP takes up all cpu cycles, but if something needs them, OOTP will share like a good kindergartener?</strong><hr></blockquote> Heat decreases the life of a cpu. 100% load maximizes heat output (regardless of your cooling solution), and makes earlier cpu failure more likely. Granted it may die in 3 years instead of 4 but temperature and processor life are definitely related.

03-13-2002, 10:03 PM	#72
theDutchman Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 17	[quote]This could be because it doesn't seem to be effecting some PC's... so its still unclear if this is an OOTP problem or a PC problem... or some combination thereof. A member of the development team posted in this thread and mentioned that his CPU was only at 68% while running the game...<hr></blockquote> 1. If it were a PC problem, it would do this while running other software, it doesn't. 2. Chances are, the guy running at 68% did not actually look at current CPU usage but at what percent of his resources were free. If I am not mistaken, resources free deals with RAM and generally implies that you have quite a bit of programs running at startup. It seems like a CPU hog, but it's actually a RAM bottleneck. I am certain that a lack of response from the development team is because they aren't sure what to do at this point. It could be disasterous if they said they were working on the problem and then couldn't find a solution. So chances are they are looking into it but just aren't mentioning it. Give them some time, they seem like a very dedicated bunch that won't leave any stones unturned. At least that is my impression.

03-14-2002, 06:03 AM	#73
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	[quote]Originally posted by theDutchman: <strong> Give them some time, they seem like a very dedicated bunch that won't leave any stones unturned. At least that is my impression.</strong><hr></blockquote> I wholeheartedly agree with this impression. It's important to remember that the team is only a handful of people. They have a lot on their plate trying to make as many people happy as possible. I'm condfident that this problem IS getting attention, but they don't want to respond until they have a definitive explanation/solution.

03-14-2002, 09:03 AM	#74
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	From the testimonials I've read in numerous postings in here, I can't argue that last point, and with time it may be dealt with. Unfortunately, my timetable is based on their return policy, which is 8 days. __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-14-2002, 07:06 PM	#75
theDutchman Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 17	BleacherBum, Well, this is America, and anytime you get an offer from a software company to return a game and you are not satisfied, do it! Then when you think they have patched the game adequately you can always return and re-order the product.

03-15-2002, 05:00 AM	#76
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	Good point Dutchman, and since it's available as a download, it wouldn't even involve multiplt trips to the store...

03-15-2002, 06:46 AM	#77
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	Right on, Dutchman! Anyway, I'll be back in a month or so - see if anything's changed. Hope they are successful in addressing it. By the way, for those Win98 users who think they may not be experiencing this issue, the thing you should check is the System Monitor, not the Resource Monitor. The System Monitor will show you kernel processor % utlitization - I predict that you will see this hit the peak and stay there. If you don't have the System Monitor tool, you can add it via Add/Remove windows components (and with your Win98 CD in hand). I suggest the OOTP Developers attempt this as well - the 68% reading you indicated in a previous post is misleading. (the resource monitor is showing free memory, which is irrelevant) __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-15-2002, 07:20 AM	#78
BasicGuy Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ND Posts: 478	BleacherBum while I hope I'm wrong on this....I have a feeling I wont be. This wont be fixed In a month or two. I dont remember for sure or not If this was a problem in V1 since It was a dos based program. But from In Version 2 on this has happened(the 100% problem). I know that Orginal V2 was dos also but I dont have access to it anymore(My CD Is Cracked ) to check if this was something that happened In the dos version there either. Now people this Is not a bug....A bug is something that happens that wasnt suppose to. I have a feeling that however the game was coded is the reasoning behind this not a bug. Brad

03-15-2002, 02:14 PM	#79
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	The original poster of this topic concurs on that point - this has been around for awhile. And as far as the "bug" or "not a bug" goes, everyone has their own take on it. No other software I've run across (or developed) behaves in this manner - any of those programs could, but they don't. If the vendor considers this good software design, then I think an explanation would be easy to provide, and is warranted. __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-15-2002, 03:16 PM	#80
BasicGuy Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ND Posts: 478	I figured out the 100% cpu usage problem... The OOTP Team Is Conspireing with AMD & Intel to shorten the life span of our cpu's.....Why you might say what would steve or markus have to gain? Intel & Amd are giveing them 5% commisions on all cpu's ootp users buy. This Was A JOKE JUST INCASE YOU MISSED THE LAST LINE......THIS WAS A JOKE Brad