Red Sox One up the Yankees AGAIN - Page 4

rallymonkey1982 · 07-31-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CommishJoe
Bottom line, until a salary cap and floor are instituted, the MLB will remain a league of haves and have nots.

Ladies and gentlemen, the entire argument boiled down to one line.

I just have one thing to say to that.... EXACTLY

SoxWin · 07-31-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
I never said the Red Sox weren't a large market team and didn't have a significant advantage over most of the teams in the league. As a Sox fan I feel spoiled and somewhat guilty about it at times. I also consider myself fortunate because I root for a team that is able to spend the money to keep their core of players together and surround them with good complementary players that poorer teams can't afford to retain.

That said, anyone going up against the Yankees is an underdog. The huge amount of money that The Boss throws around gives the Yankees almost unlimited room for mistakes that would cripple other teams. It gets frustrating for me when Yankee fans refuse to see and/or admit this.

I definitely agree with that. I think the biggest difference between the Sox and the Yanks is the price of their complimentary players. Both teams have huge salaried megastars, the Spanks also have a hugely overpaid SS but that's their problem to deal with. On top of that though, the Yanks pay guys like Hitchcock, Weaver, Trammell (when he was around), Henson, the new Cuban pitcher, millions to bench warm or play in AAA. Most of the Sox non mega stars have reasonable contracts since even they can't afford what Georgey boy can.

Both teams have a huge advantage over almost every team out there and choose to use it.

Rich

Highlander · 07-31-2003, 02:32 PM

Here is another vote by a Yankee fan for a salary cap. I think the frustration here by the seemingly few Yankee fans that frequent this board is that we do acknowledge many of the things that others here say Yankee fans don't. George spends a ton of money, and it certainly is an advantage. I just don't think it needs to be continually thrown in everyone's face every time the Yankees make a move. There are a number of Yankee fans out there who are only fans because of their recent success, but are not baseball fans. Ask any of them if they know who Dennis Rasmussen, Joe Cowley, Mel Hall, Rich Bordi, Bobby Meacham, etc. are, and I would guess they would have no idea. From what I have seen, the Yankee fans here are actually intelligent baseball fans as well.....we are not the fans who say Jeter is great because he is so cool, or that all George's money makes no difference, or any of the other quotes that people throw out.

I apologize if some of my earlier postings made it sound like I am not able to admit to the fact that the Yankees spend ridiculous amounts of money......I certainly am. Until the rules in baseball change, there will be these big discrepancies in spending. I guess the Yankees will always stand out unless some of the other teams that are capable of spending more money actually do it. I still question who is worse.....the owners that have lots of money and don't spend it or the Yankees who spend what they have to try and make the team better?

As far as the Yankees always getting the top guys in free agency, other than Giambi and Mussina......what other "top" players have they gotten in the past 5-6 years? Maybe I am missing some huge names, or thinking they got someone through a trade that was actually a free agent, but I really can't think of many players that I would call the "top" players. The Yankees do spend to get a number of solid players in free agency, but I don't think they have gotten all the top players.....at least recently.

CMH · 07-31-2003, 04:02 PM

Colorado wanted Neagle and Hampton. They got Neagle and Hampton. Paid top dollar for them. Money got them nothing.

Boston wanted Manny Ramirez. They got Manny Ramierez. Paid top dollars for him, too. They haven't done much since.

Texas wanted Alex Rodriguez. They got Alex Rodriguez. Paid top dollar for him. Money got them nothing.

Yanks wanted Mike Mussina and Jason Giambi. They got Mike Mussina and Jason Giambi. Paid top dollar for them. They haven't won a championship since.

The Yanks don't get what they want. One team gets what it wants. That one team is not always the Yankees.

Money doesn't promise championships. Since Georgy took over full-time as manager, general manager, financial advisor, and baby-sitter the Yanks have won ZERO championships. The same number they won from the time Mattingly was on the team till the time he retired.

Money looks good. Money can be spent on good players. Money can not buy you stats or championships.

CommishJoe · 07-31-2003, 04:23 PM

"Money looks good. Money can be spent on good players. Money can not buy you stats or championships"

Or team chemistry, which is what the 2002 Angels, and the late 90s Yankees had.

Neromadrid · 08-09-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
Colorado wanted Neagle and Hampton. They got Neagle and Hampton. Paid top dollar for them. Money got them nothing.

Boston wanted Manny Ramirez. They got Manny Ramierez. Paid top dollars for him, too. They haven't done much since.

Texas wanted Alex Rodriguez. They got Alex Rodriguez. Paid top dollar for him. Money got them nothing.

Yanks wanted Mike Mussina and Jason Giambi. They got Mike Mussina and Jason Giambi. Paid top dollar for them. They haven't won a championship since.

The Yanks don't get what they want. One team gets what it wants. That one team is not always the Yankees.

Money doesn't promise championships. Since Georgy took over full-time as manager, general manager, financial advisor, and baby-sitter the Yanks have won ZERO championships. The same number they won from the time Mattingly was on the team till the time he retired.

Money looks good. Money can be spent on good players. Money can not buy you stats or championships.

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious but those teams you mentioned pretty much are stuck with being able to afford only 2 guys at the salaries you are talking about. What you failed to mention is that the Yanks added Moose and Giambi to a salary structure that includes another FIVE guys making 10 mil or more...

Clemens
Pettite
Bernie
Jeter
Rivera

That's where the difference is made.

And yes..I am indeed a BoSox fan

Things that have been conveniently excluded from all the arguments above include:

The A's, Marlins and Royals do indeed have much smaller payrolls than the Sox but they don't have to overcome the Yanks just to get out of the division. If you want to make comparisons between teams take that into account

The Red Sox, while 5th in MLB payroll, spend at a 60% clip compared to the Yankees. If you want to say big deal, think about how much smaller your paycheck looks when taxes go up 5%

You can talk all you want about how the game is played on the field...and it is. Obviously the results on the field are strongly related to the quality of players you can put out there so don't try and hide behind the notion that if the Yanks manage to not win the WS for 2 years that payroll doesn't matter. Outside of the Braves and Yanks show me another team that consistently gets to the post season...it's not a coincidence that they have high payrolls.

And on a final note: I agree with the other Red Sox fans on this board. While I don't consider this season an open and shut affair by any stretch of the imagination, Epstein's moves have given us cause for optimism that we rarely have had in the past. It's not just that we got high quality guys that fill a need, but that we beat the Yanks to them as well, which is not the standard modus operandi. The most suspect part of the team has been the pen and it's been converted into a strength. Hopefully the results will be in line with our expectations.

07-31-2003, 02:32 PM	#63
Highlander All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,046	Here is another vote by a Yankee fan for a salary cap. I think the frustration here by the seemingly few Yankee fans that frequent this board is that we do acknowledge many of the things that others here say Yankee fans don't. George spends a ton of money, and it certainly is an advantage. I just don't think it needs to be continually thrown in everyone's face every time the Yankees make a move. There are a number of Yankee fans out there who are only fans because of their recent success, but are not baseball fans. Ask any of them if they know who Dennis Rasmussen, Joe Cowley, Mel Hall, Rich Bordi, Bobby Meacham, etc. are, and I would guess they would have no idea. From what I have seen, the Yankee fans here are actually intelligent baseball fans as well.....we are not the fans who say Jeter is great because he is so cool, or that all George's money makes no difference, or any of the other quotes that people throw out. I apologize if some of my earlier postings made it sound like I am not able to admit to the fact that the Yankees spend ridiculous amounts of money......I certainly am. Until the rules in baseball change, there will be these big discrepancies in spending. I guess the Yankees will always stand out unless some of the other teams that are capable of spending more money actually do it. I still question who is worse.....the owners that have lots of money and don't spend it or the Yankees who spend what they have to try and make the team better? As far as the Yankees always getting the top guys in free agency, other than Giambi and Mussina......what other "top" players have they gotten in the past 5-6 years? Maybe I am missing some huge names, or thinking they got someone through a trade that was actually a free agent, but I really can't think of many players that I would call the "top" players. The Yankees do spend to get a number of solid players in free agency, but I don't think they have gotten all the top players.....at least recently. __________________ "The baseball mania has run its course. It has no future as a professional endeavor." — Cincinnati Gazette editorial, 1879

07-31-2003, 04:23 PM	#65
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	"Money looks good. Money can be spent on good players. Money can not buy you stats or championships" Or team chemistry, which is what the 2002 Angels, and the late 90s Yankees had. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

07-31-2003, 04:02 PM	#64
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Colorado wanted Neagle and Hampton. They got Neagle and Hampton. Paid top dollar for them. Money got them nothing. Boston wanted Manny Ramirez. They got Manny Ramierez. Paid top dollars for him, too. They haven't done much since. Texas wanted Alex Rodriguez. They got Alex Rodriguez. Paid top dollar for him. Money got them nothing. Yanks wanted Mike Mussina and Jason Giambi. They got Mike Mussina and Jason Giambi. Paid top dollar for them. They haven't won a championship since. The Yanks don't get what they want. One team gets what it wants. That one team is not always the Yankees. Money doesn't promise championships. Since Georgy took over full-time as manager, general manager, financial advisor, and baby-sitter the Yanks have won ZERO championships. The same number they won from the time Mattingly was on the team till the time he retired. Money looks good. Money can be spent on good players. Money can not buy you stats or championships.