I cant stand Billy Beane - Page 4

GForce22 · 07-23-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
You do realize I have been mocking you this entire time, correct?

You do realize I've been dragging you basically wherever I want you to go this entire time, correct? Such as yesterday, you said you would leave the conversation, but you just couldn't. I knew I could keep you in it, getting you "worked into a lather" as long as I wanted to.

You're nothing if not predictable, HR.

GH

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-23-2003, 06:31 PM

Well, that's two pretty good threads you guys have ruined. Thanks.

holyroller · 07-23-2003, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22
You do realize I've been dragging you basically wherever I want you to go this entire time, correct? Such as yesterday, you said you would leave the conversation, but you just couldn't. I knew I could keep you in it, getting you "worked into a lather" as long as I wanted to.

You're nothing if not predictible, HR.

GH

ROFL

Now THAT is funny.

holyroller · 07-23-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
Well, that's two pretty good threads you guys have ruined. Thanks.

Sorry Eck. Was just having some fun. I'll let it be now.

GForce22 · 07-23-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
ROFL

Now THAT is funny.

Yup, it sure is

As Selma once said on the Simpsons, "It's Funny 'Cause It's True"

GH

Rizon · 07-23-2003, 06:57 PM

Beane is God. Thanks.

Draft Dodger · 07-23-2003, 08:11 PM

it's funny that THIS flame war counts towards one's post count, but the OT flame wars don't.

Spielman · 07-24-2003, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
it's funny that THIS flame war counts towards one's post count, but the OT flame wars don't.

Well jeez.

Why didn't I think of that idea before?

Ahem.

You're all a bunch of useless bloody loonies!

There, now please flame me so I can get a better post count.

-Spielman

magnet · 07-24-2003, 02:46 AM

spielman you two timing whore!

(going for AAA, needs posts

)

Crapshoot · 07-24-2003, 09:42 AM

I believe either Speilman or SKipaway and myself has made this point before- Moneyball isn't about OBP- its about marginal value. You buy the skill that is being undervalued, and sell the skill that is overvalued. When Podesta said OBP is 3 times as val as slg, people were up in arms at the ridiculous nature of it- all he was saying was that in the current market place, the cost of OBP relative to SLG (types of players) is skewered such that OBP is worth far more at a cheaper price...

SoxWin · 07-24-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadik
I believe either Speilman or SKipaway and myself has made this point before- Moneyball isn't about OBP- its about marginal value. You buy the skill that is being undervalued, and sell the skill that is overvalued. When Podesta said OBP is 3 times as val as slg, people were up in arms at the ridiculous nature of it- all he was saying was that in the current market place, the cost of OBP relative to SLG (types of players) is skewered such that OBP is worth far more at a cheaper price...

Sorry Aadik, I disagree. Where DePodesta made his offensive efficiency calculations showing Hatty to be as valuable as "Mr swing at anything" he was talking strictly about offensive value. Nowhere was money once mentioned.

Rich

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-24-2003, 10:14 AM

Point holds, though, Rich - the book is about finding the undervalued skill. In some Bizarro Universe where all the GMs followed sabermetrics, the guys with the "great face" might actually be undervalued, and in that case, the smart thing to do would be to follow the recommendations of the old scouts. I don't think Lewis is at all ambiguous on this point.

SoxWin · 07-24-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
Point holds, though, Rich - the book is about finding the undervalued skill. In some Bizarro Universe where all the GMs followed sabermetrics, the guys with the "great face" might actually be undervalued, and in that case, the smart thing to do would be to follow the recommendations of the old scouts. I don't think Lewis is at all ambiguous on this point.

Yes, the book is about finding undervalued skill, I understand that. I was disagreeing with the second point Aadik made.

Quote:

When Podesta said OBP is 3 times as val as slg, people were up in arms at the ridiculous nature of it- all he was saying was that in the current market place, the cost of OBP relative to SLG (types of players) is skewered such that OBP is worth far more at a cheaper price...

If it mentions the cost of obp vs slg in the chapter where "9 Hattebergs are by some measure, the best offence in baseball" I'll eat my hat

He was saying that Hatte is an efficient offensive player.

Rich

Gastric ReFlux · 07-24-2003, 10:42 AM

I figure Beane figures by the time the rest of baseball catches on, he will have fully developed the IIS (Intangible Index Score) and corner the market on players with high intangible scores.

draven085 · 07-24-2003, 10:46 AM

Sorry, Cashman has already done this. Beane will have to find another stat to exploit.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-24-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by draven085
Sorry, Cashman has already done this. Beane will have to find another stat to exploit.

Nice.

We don't disagree, Rich..... I was just making sure you agreed with the larger point.

SoxWin · 07-24-2003, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eckstein 4 Prez
Nice.

We don't disagree, Rich..... I was just making sure you agreed with the larger point.

Good one GR. Eck, I loved the book, read it 3 times now. Almost as much of an eyeopener as the first Abstract I bought

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-24-2003, 11:03 AM

Just finished my first time through this morning..... best book I've read in a while.

Gastric ReFlux · 07-24-2003, 11:06 AM

I'm gonna have to get Moneyball and read it.

So is Beane a liberal weenie or a rightwing fascist nutcase?

draven085 · 07-24-2003, 11:08 AM

He lives in California. Do you even need to ask?

07-23-2003, 06:31 PM	#62
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Well, that's two pretty good threads you guys have ruined. Thanks. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

07-23-2003, 06:57 PM	#66
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	Beane is God. Thanks. __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

07-23-2003, 08:11 PM	#67
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	it's funny that THIS flame war counts towards one's post count, but the OT flame wars don't. __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

07-24-2003, 09:42 AM	#70
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	I believe either Speilman or SKipaway and myself has made this point before- Moneyball isn't about OBP- its about marginal value. You buy the skill that is being undervalued, and sell the skill that is overvalued. When Podesta said OBP is 3 times as val as slg, people were up in arms at the ridiculous nature of it- all he was saying was that in the current market place, the cost of OBP relative to SLG (types of players) is skewered such that OBP is worth far more at a cheaper price... __________________ Senior Senor Member of the OOTP Boards Pittsburgh Playmates- OTBL

07-24-2003, 10:14 AM	#72
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Point holds, though, Rich - the book is about finding the undervalued skill. In some Bizarro Universe where all the GMs followed sabermetrics, the guys with the "great face" might actually be undervalued, and in that case, the smart thing to do would be to follow the recommendations of the old scouts. I don't think Lewis is at all ambiguous on this point. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

07-24-2003, 02:46 AM	#69
magnet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,029	spielman you two timing whore! (going for AAA, needs posts )

07-24-2003, 10:42 AM	#74
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	I figure Beane figures by the time the rest of baseball catches on, he will have fully developed the IIS (Intangible Index Score) and corner the market on players with high intangible scores.

07-24-2003, 10:46 AM	#75
draven085 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,074	Sorry, Cashman has already done this. Beane will have to find another stat to exploit.

07-24-2003, 11:03 AM	#78
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Just finished my first time through this morning..... best book I've read in a while. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

07-24-2003, 11:06 AM	#79
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	I'm gonna have to get Moneyball and read it. So is Beane a liberal weenie or a rightwing fascist nutcase?

07-24-2003, 11:08 AM	#80
draven085 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,074	He lives in California. Do you even need to ask?