A Fictional Fling beginning in 1961 - Page 4

Brad K · 07-25-2024, 08:53 AM

Two regulars out and the team is still in first.

Is Held going to be the SS when Neal gets back?

Held put up some good power numbers for me in 63 and 64, enough to leave him in the lineup at SS.

You named everyone except the bench.

Woodie Held stats, RL through 1960, save after 1960

David Watts · 07-28-2024, 10:41 PM

Man, how does an outfield of Willie McCovey in LF, Willie Mays in CF and Al Kaline in RF sound. That's the Giants starting outfield to begin the 63 season. Wow! Cepeda is playing 1B.

David Watts · 07-29-2024, 09:48 AM

Wonder what the storyline for this one would be? Finished up the 62 season over the weekend. The Minnesota Twins beat the Cincinnati Reds 4 games to 3 to win the World Series. The Twins fell behind 2-0, but then stormed back with a vengeance to win the championship. Don Mincher took home World Series MVP honors.

Don Mincher would also win the American League MVP award. Mincher absolutely crushed the ball down the stretch and played a huge roll in the Twins being able to hold off the hard charging New York Yankees for the AL Pennant.

This is where it gets strange. We move through the offseason, through Spring Training and on to opening day. I start looking at each teams starting lineups. I get to the Twins and one thing stands out right away. Don Mincher is not in everyday lineup I know he wasn't a free agent, because he doesn't have the service time. I'm thinking, did I miss a trade, was he traded? I check the Twins lineup page and there's Mincher, so he's still a Twin. What's happened is the Twins have moved Harmon Killebrew to 1B to start the 63 season. This of course, leaves Mincher without a place to play as he is rated only at 1B, Killebrew on the other hand is rated to play 1B,3B and OF. Mincher hit 45/46 home runs in 1961 taking home Rookie of the Year honors. Follows that up with a 36/38(at work so I'm not exact) and MVP honors in 1962. He also takes home World Series MVP honors. He then becomes a backup to start the 63 season. Wonder if anything like that has ever happened over the course of baseball history?

Why I find this really strange is, I'm not using recalc. With recalc stuff like this happening is not all that uncommon. A guy has a couple great seasons in real life, followed by a real life injury plagued season and it's easy to see why he would lose his spot. But, without recalc and TCR set to 1, I didn't expect to see it happen, unless Mincher's performance crashed.

Another thing that's kind of had me scratching my head is, guys tearing it up during a season, only to have the AI decide to bench them for an extended period of time. This has happened to Willie McCovey in each of the first two seasons I've played. Another guy it happened to in 1962 was Boog Powell. Powel, a rookie, was in the realm of possibility in terms of a triple crown season. Then, the Orioles decided he was better suited to pinch hit for like 2 or 3 weeks late in July into August. In both cases Powell and McCovey were eventually returned to the starting lineup, but it's strange to see guys crushing it, sent to the bench. Guessing this has something to do with the AI trying to field a stronger team in terms of defense, but this and the Mincher deal really has me considering instituting the DH in both leagues.way prior to the actual debut.

David Watts · 07-29-2024, 10:27 AM

Oh man, as a Tiger fan, I'm close to tears. Cash to Boston, Stanley traded away as well. Bunning gone. Lary gone. Rocky Colavito traded. Al Kaline signs a 8 year deal with the San Francisco Giants. Detroit is picked to finish 9th in the American League by the preseason predictions. Heck, I think Don Wert may be hitting 3rd in their batting order. They still have Lolich, McAuliffe, Freehan, Horton and Gates Brown, but I'm not sure I see the even a glimmer of hope for a World Series run any time soon. Unless they go crazy on the free agent market the next few years. Oh, Joe Sparma and Hank Aguirre have also moved on to other teams.

On another note. When the Tigers traded Norm Cash to the Red Sox, one of the guys they received in the trade was Jim Gosger. Gosger was born in Port Huron Michigan. I remember watching Jim Gosger play fast pitch softball back when I was a youngster growing up in Saginaw.

Brad K · 07-29-2024, 12:17 PM

In my current save (in mid 1967) the Tigers also gave up on being competitive. Interesting that we are both experiencing this in the 60s with the same team.

David Watts · 07-29-2024, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

In my current save (in mid 1967) the Tigers also gave up on being competitive. Interesting that we are both experiencing this in the 60s with the same team.

I was really wanting them to at least sign Kaline to a long term deal. Northrup, Freehan and McAuliffe are all on the team. Willie Horton is still in the minor leagues.

Your Pirates battled the Reds right down to the final Saturday of the season in 1962 before they were eliminated. Both teams won over a 100 games. Stargell may have been rookie of the year if it wasn't for the monster season Dick Allen put together. By July Stargell was pretty much playing everyday at 1B. Of course, this meant Dick Stuart wasn't playing. To start 63, Stargell is playing LF and Stuart is playing 1B,

Brad K · 07-29-2024, 12:46 PM

Wow, over a hundred wins in 1962. The computer GM made some good moves.

Your Tigers have a core. Maybe they can add some FAs. Is McAuliffe playing SS?

David Watts · 07-29-2024, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Wow, over a hundred wins in 1962. The computer GM made some good moves.

Great pitching. Veal won the Cy Young. Friend was steady as always. Haddix was solid as well. Al Jackson joined the rotation late in the season and rolled to 10-0 record. Vern Law actually found himself in the bullpen. Diomedes Olivo pitched for most of the year as the team's stopper, but ended up in the rotation to close the season out.

David Watts · 08-05-2024, 10:01 AM

I'm about halfway through August 1963. The 63 season has been rather blah so far. The Yankees are running away with the American League. Right now they hold a 12 game lead over the Minnesota Twins and they show no signs of slowing down. Mantles average is down this year, but he's still driving in runs and hitting home runs at a healthy clip. The Yankees added Ken Boyer to the mix for the 63 season. Joe Pepitone has arrived and Pete Runnells is leading the AL in bating average, hitting roughly .325. Whitey Ford is once again having a nice season on the mound. The big surprise this year has to be Al Downing. Downing has 14 wins and only 3 or 4 losses. The Twins are once again hitting home runs at a healthy clip, led by Harmon Killebrew who leads the league with 31. Jim Perry after spending some time in the bullpen to start the season has returned to starting with a vengeance. His ERA is below 2 for the season. I still can't help but think the Twins are shooting themselves in the foot by not playing last years AL MVP, Don Mincher. Mincher has been relegated to pinch hitting and subbing at 1B when Killebrew needs a rest. The Twins manager could easily move Killebrew off of 1B as I think he's rated to play both the outfield and 3B. This would get Minchers bat into the lineup. Over 100 at bats, Mincher has 7 home runs on the season.

The Cincinnati Reds led by Vada Pinson and Frank Robinson are once again sitting atop the National League. Pinson is leading the NL in batting average and Frank Robinson is hitting home runs and driving Pinson in. Pete Rose is having a nice season as the teams leadoff hitter as well. The Reds pitching staff is led by Jim Maloney. Maloney is a strikeout machine and so dam consistent. The Milwaukee Braves are 6 games behind the Reds in the standings. Hank Aaron is having another nice season for the Braves. Hitting above .300, driving in runs and hitting home runs. In third place are the New York Mets. The Mets are 8 games back. I'm stunned at how well the expansion Mets have performed so far in their brief existence. Their fellow expansion team, the Houston Colt 45's have been the exact opposite, as they sit dead last in the NL.

Another guy I'm stunned to see get benched is Ernie Banks. Banks signed a free agent deal with the Yankees prior to the 62 season. He played a lot to start 1962, but as the season worn on he got less and less playing time. I'm not even sure why he's on the Yankees roster in 1963. He's not even getting pinch hit at bats on a regular basis. His fielding ratings have dropped to red 20/25 at 1B and SS,

Both Robin Roberts and Early Wynn have announced their retirements. Sad news in the case of Wynn. Shortly after announcing he was hanging up the spikes, he fractured his knee ending his season. Cool thing is, he did manage to get to 300 wins.

Wilbur Wood has been one of the biggest surprises so far. Wood was in the running for the Cy Young in 1962 and barring a sudden crash in his performance over the last month and a half of the season, he should get some votes again this year. Wood is the ace of the Red Sox staff at this time and has been one of the league best.

My beloved Detroit Tigers have the worst record in baseball. Other than Bill Freehan and Duke Snider, the lineup is abysmal. Losing Don Demeter early in the season to injury didn't help one bit. Willie Horton is up from the minors, but he's being used sparingly. Gates Brown has been starting in LF. Mickey Lolich is doing his best, but even he's struggling. Ugh, scared this offseason will bleed off more of my heroes and by 1968, the Tigers won't even be recognizable. to me. Oh well.

So far the batting order of Kaline, Cepeda, McCovey and Mays hasn't lived up to the expectations. The Giants have been hovering around the .500 mark all season. The big 4 have roughly 100 home runs between them and they're driving in runs, but so far it's not led to great success in the win's department. Willie Mays is having a disappointing season so far. He's up to .259 at the plate, but he's been in the .240's low .250's for most of the season. His OBP is lower this year as well.

David Watts · 08-06-2024, 09:43 AM

Approaching the end of August now and the Yankees have upped their lead to 14 games, over Baltimore and Minnesota. Boston hit a rough patch and it dropped them out of contention.

In the NL, Milwaukee creeped to within 3 games of the first place Reds, but once again sit 6 games back. Haven't checked but I sure hope Milwaukee and Cincinnati meet up at least once in September.

Harmon Killebrew continues to lead the AL in Home Runs(33) and Hank Aaron leads the NL with 32.

Brad K · 08-06-2024, 05:54 PM

Historical as played is 4 games at CIN Sept 9-11 and 2 games at MIL Sept 24-25

David Watts · 08-06-2024, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

Historical as played is 4 games at CIN Sept 9-11 and 2 games at MIL Sept 24-25

Great. I look forward to those games.

Brad K · 08-06-2024, 06:11 PM

I looked at games played on BR. The Sept 9 double header might involve a makeup game.

David Watts · 08-06-2024, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

I looked at games played on BR. The Sept 9 double header might involve a makeup game.

Just checked and it's exactly like you said. Sept. 9-11 a 4 games series in Cincinnati. Then a 2 game series in Milwaukee Sept 24-25.

Brad K · 08-07-2024, 03:42 PM

I'm glad you're getting the direct competition you want.

David Watts · 08-07-2024, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

I'm glad you're getting the direct competition you want.

I may have jinxed things. Milwaukee has now fallen a half game behind both Pittsburgh and Los Angeles. The Pirates and Dodgers are 4 game behind the Reds, the Braves are 4 1/2 back.

Brad K · 08-07-2024, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I may have jinxed things. Milwaukee has now fallen a half game behind both Pittsburgh and Los Angeles. The Pirates and Dodgers are 4 game behind the Reds, the Braves are 4 1/2 back.

A team being 4 1/2 back is bad enough but its worse when there are two teams between it and the leader.

Brad K · 08-07-2024, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Just checked and it's exactly like you said. Sept. 9-11 a 4 games series in Cincinnati. Then a 2 game series in Milwaukee Sept 24-25.

I figured you'd be happy for some information before you got home from work!

David Watts · 08-07-2024, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

I figured you'd be happy for some information before you got home from work!

I was. At least it looks like there could be some September drama in the NL. The AL race is all but over.

David Watts · 08-08-2024, 08:59 AM

Well, at least the National League race has decided to become interesting. The Pirates are now only 2 games behind the first place Reds. The Dodgers are 4 games back in 3rd place and the Braves are 4 1/2 games back in 4th place. The Pirates are making their push, without the services of their best player. Roberto Clemente is currently on the IL and will be for the next week and a 1/2 at least.

The AL Home Run race is now a 2 man race. Mickey Mantle has managed to come from behind to catch Harmon Killebrew for the lead. Both sit at 35 for the season. In the NL Hank Aaron leads all with 35.

The Yankees lead in the AL is down to 12 games......look out we may have a race. Ugh!

07-25-2024, 08:53 AM	#61
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Two regulars out and the team is still in first. Is Held going to be the SS when Neal gets back? Held put up some good power numbers for me in 63 and 64, enough to leave him in the lineup at SS. You named everyone except the bench. Woodie Held stats, RL through 1960, save after 1960 Attached Images

07-29-2024, 12:46 PM	#67
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Wow, over a hundred wins in 1962. The computer GM made some good moves. Your Tigers have a core. Maybe they can add some FAs. Is McAuliffe playing SS? Last edited by Brad K; 07-29-2024 at 12:48 PM.

08-05-2024, 10:01 AM	#69
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,091 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I'm about halfway through August 1963. The 63 season has been rather blah so far. The Yankees are running away with the American League. Right now they hold a 12 game lead over the Minnesota Twins and they show no signs of slowing down. Mantles average is down this year, but he's still driving in runs and hitting home runs at a healthy clip. The Yankees added Ken Boyer to the mix for the 63 season. Joe Pepitone has arrived and Pete Runnells is leading the AL in bating average, hitting roughly .325. Whitey Ford is once again having a nice season on the mound. The big surprise this year has to be Al Downing. Downing has 14 wins and only 3 or 4 losses. The Twins are once again hitting home runs at a healthy clip, led by Harmon Killebrew who leads the league with 31. Jim Perry after spending some time in the bullpen to start the season has returned to starting with a vengeance. His ERA is below 2 for the season. I still can't help but think the Twins are shooting themselves in the foot by not playing last years AL MVP, Don Mincher. Mincher has been relegated to pinch hitting and subbing at 1B when Killebrew needs a rest. The Twins manager could easily move Killebrew off of 1B as I think he's rated to play both the outfield and 3B. This would get Minchers bat into the lineup. Over 100 at bats, Mincher has 7 home runs on the season. The Cincinnati Reds led by Vada Pinson and Frank Robinson are once again sitting atop the National League. Pinson is leading the NL in batting average and Frank Robinson is hitting home runs and driving Pinson in. Pete Rose is having a nice season as the teams leadoff hitter as well. The Reds pitching staff is led by Jim Maloney. Maloney is a strikeout machine and so dam consistent. The Milwaukee Braves are 6 games behind the Reds in the standings. Hank Aaron is having another nice season for the Braves. Hitting above .300, driving in runs and hitting home runs. In third place are the New York Mets. The Mets are 8 games back. I'm stunned at how well the expansion Mets have performed so far in their brief existence. Their fellow expansion team, the Houston Colt 45's have been the exact opposite, as they sit dead last in the NL. Another guy I'm stunned to see get benched is Ernie Banks. Banks signed a free agent deal with the Yankees prior to the 62 season. He played a lot to start 1962, but as the season worn on he got less and less playing time. I'm not even sure why he's on the Yankees roster in 1963. He's not even getting pinch hit at bats on a regular basis. His fielding ratings have dropped to red 20/25 at 1B and SS, Both Robin Roberts and Early Wynn have announced their retirements. Sad news in the case of Wynn. Shortly after announcing he was hanging up the spikes, he fractured his knee ending his season. Cool thing is, he did manage to get to 300 wins. Wilbur Wood has been one of the biggest surprises so far. Wood was in the running for the Cy Young in 1962 and barring a sudden crash in his performance over the last month and a half of the season, he should get some votes again this year. Wood is the ace of the Red Sox staff at this time and has been one of the league best. My beloved Detroit Tigers have the worst record in baseball. Other than Bill Freehan and Duke Snider, the lineup is abysmal. Losing Don Demeter early in the season to injury didn't help one bit. Willie Horton is up from the minors, but he's being used sparingly. Gates Brown has been starting in LF. Mickey Lolich is doing his best, but even he's struggling. Ugh, scared this offseason will bleed off more of my heroes and by 1968, the Tigers won't even be recognizable. to me. Oh well. So far the batting order of Kaline, Cepeda, McCovey and Mays hasn't lived up to the expectations. The Giants have been hovering around the .500 mark all season. The big 4 have roughly 100 home runs between them and they're driving in runs, but so far it's not led to great success in the win's department. Willie Mays is having a disappointing season so far. He's up to .259 at the plate, but he's been in the .240's low .250's for most of the season. His OBP is lower this year as well. Last edited by David Watts; 08-05-2024 at 10:18 AM.

07-28-2024, 10:41 PM	#62
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,091 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Man, how does an outfield of Willie McCovey in LF, Willie Mays in CF and Al Kaline in RF sound. That's the Giants starting outfield to begin the 63 season. Wow! Cepeda is playing 1B.

07-29-2024, 09:48 AM	#63
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,091 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Wonder what the storyline for this one would be? Finished up the 62 season over the weekend. The Minnesota Twins beat the Cincinnati Reds 4 games to 3 to win the World Series. The Twins fell behind 2-0, but then stormed back with a vengeance to win the championship. Don Mincher took home World Series MVP honors. Don Mincher would also win the American League MVP award. Mincher absolutely crushed the ball down the stretch and played a huge roll in the Twins being able to hold off the hard charging New York Yankees for the AL Pennant. This is where it gets strange. We move through the offseason, through Spring Training and on to opening day. I start looking at each teams starting lineups. I get to the Twins and one thing stands out right away. Don Mincher is not in everyday lineup I know he wasn't a free agent, because he doesn't have the service time. I'm thinking, did I miss a trade, was he traded? I check the Twins lineup page and there's Mincher, so he's still a Twin. What's happened is the Twins have moved Harmon Killebrew to 1B to start the 63 season. This of course, leaves Mincher without a place to play as he is rated only at 1B, Killebrew on the other hand is rated to play 1B,3B and OF. Mincher hit 45/46 home runs in 1961 taking home Rookie of the Year honors. Follows that up with a 36/38(at work so I'm not exact) and MVP honors in 1962. He also takes home World Series MVP honors. He then becomes a backup to start the 63 season. Wonder if anything like that has ever happened over the course of baseball history? Why I find this really strange is, I'm not using recalc. With recalc stuff like this happening is not all that uncommon. A guy has a couple great seasons in real life, followed by a real life injury plagued season and it's easy to see why he would lose his spot. But, without recalc and TCR set to 1, I didn't expect to see it happen, unless Mincher's performance crashed. Another thing that's kind of had me scratching my head is, guys tearing it up during a season, only to have the AI decide to bench them for an extended period of time. This has happened to Willie McCovey in each of the first two seasons I've played. Another guy it happened to in 1962 was Boog Powell. Powel, a rookie, was in the realm of possibility in terms of a triple crown season. Then, the Orioles decided he was better suited to pinch hit for like 2 or 3 weeks late in July into August. In both cases Powell and McCovey were eventually returned to the starting lineup, but it's strange to see guys crushing it, sent to the bench. Guessing this has something to do with the AI trying to field a stronger team in terms of defense, but this and the Mincher deal really has me considering instituting the DH in both leagues.way prior to the actual debut.

07-29-2024, 10:27 AM	#64
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,091 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Oh man, as a Tiger fan, I'm close to tears. Cash to Boston, Stanley traded away as well. Bunning gone. Lary gone. Rocky Colavito traded. Al Kaline signs a 8 year deal with the San Francisco Giants. Detroit is picked to finish 9th in the American League by the preseason predictions. Heck, I think Don Wert may be hitting 3rd in their batting order. They still have Lolich, McAuliffe, Freehan, Horton and Gates Brown, but I'm not sure I see the even a glimmer of hope for a World Series run any time soon. Unless they go crazy on the free agent market the next few years. Oh, Joe Sparma and Hank Aguirre have also moved on to other teams. On another note. When the Tigers traded Norm Cash to the Red Sox, one of the guys they received in the trade was Jim Gosger. Gosger was born in Port Huron Michigan. I remember watching Jim Gosger play fast pitch softball back when I was a youngster growing up in Saginaw.

07-29-2024, 12:17 PM	#65
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	In my current save (in mid 1967) the Tigers also gave up on being competitive. Interesting that we are both experiencing this in the 60s with the same team.

08-06-2024, 09:43 AM	#70
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,091 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Approaching the end of August now and the Yankees have upped their lead to 14 games, over Baltimore and Minnesota. Boston hit a rough patch and it dropped them out of contention. In the NL, Milwaukee creeped to within 3 games of the first place Reds, but once again sit 6 games back. Haven't checked but I sure hope Milwaukee and Cincinnati meet up at least once in September. Harmon Killebrew continues to lead the AL in Home Runs(33) and Hank Aaron leads the NL with 32.

08-06-2024, 05:54 PM	#71
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	Historical as played is 4 games at CIN Sept 9-11 and 2 games at MIL Sept 24-25

08-06-2024, 06:11 PM	#73
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	I looked at games played on BR. The Sept 9 double header might involve a makeup game.

08-07-2024, 03:42 PM	#75
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	I'm glad you're getting the direct competition you want.

08-08-2024, 08:59 AM	#80
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,091 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Well, at least the National League race has decided to become interesting. The Pirates are now only 2 games behind the first place Reds. The Dodgers are 4 games back in 3rd place and the Braves are 4 1/2 games back in 4th place. The Pirates are making their push, without the services of their best player. Roberto Clemente is currently on the IL and will be for the next week and a 1/2 at least. The AL Home Run race is now a 2 man race. Mickey Mantle has managed to come from behind to catch Harmon Killebrew for the lead. Both sit at 35 for the season. In the NL Hank Aaron leads all with 35. The Yankees lead in the AL is down to 12 games......look out we may have a race. Ugh!