MLB work stoppage almost certain on Dec. 2

[rudel.dietrich]

Back of topic,
Monday, the MLBPA is supposed to make their offer. From what I am hearing, it asks for everything they want and makes no concessions at all.

I am thinking at the very least, ST will not start on time. I am thinking there is perhaps a 30% chance that the season does not start on time.

How quickly this gets resolved, depends on how desperate each side gets. But there is a lot of anger and mistrust on both sides and I do not see this ending quickly or easily.

[cephasjames]

Has either side budged on anything yet?

[monkeyman576]

Here's a thought. Tanking isn't really a problem. . Maybe what we need is a stricter salary cap.

[cephasjames]

What do you mean tanking isn't a problem?

[monkeyman576]

Tanking helps small market teams and hurts large market teams which is how it should be

[cephasjames]

I'm not intentionally trying to be obtuse here, but how does tanking help small-market teams? How does tanking hurt large market teams? Why should it be like this? I genuinely have never heard anyone make statements like these, so I don't understand where you're coming from.

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

I'm not intentionally trying to be obtuse here, but how does tanking help small-market teams? How does tanking hurt large market teams? Why should it be like this? I genuinely have never heard anyone make statements like these, so I don't understand where you're coming from.

This should be obvious. Large market teams don't need to tank because they just sign free agents to $300M contracts. Small market teams need to use whatever tactics they can, and sometimes that is tanking.

[low]

Baseball is such a crapshoot, though, that tanking for draft picks isn't really a thing like it would be in the NBA or NFL. Now, if MLB were to grant additional funding for teams sucking then I could see tanking being an issue. Right now, I don't think it exists (in MLB).

On a related note, I don't see the MLB or MLBPA budging. This is going to cost us a regularly scheduled start to the season.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by low

Baseball is such a crapshoot, though, that tanking for draft picks isn't really a thing like it would be in the NBA or NFL. Now, if MLB were to grant additional funding for teams sucking then I could see tanking being an issue. Right now, I don't think it exists (in MLB).

On a related note, I don't see the MLB or MLBPA budging. This is going to cost us a regularly scheduled start to the season.

Agreed. Pujols wasn't a first round selection...but you're pretty sure in the NBA when you draft someone in the first round, you have a pretty nice player.

[knightdreamer2k]

Originally Posted by low

Baseball is such a crapshoot, though, that tanking for draft picks isn't really a thing like it would be in the NBA or NFL. Now, if MLB were to grant additional funding for teams sucking then I could see tanking being an issue. Right now, I don't think it exists (in MLB).

On a related note, I don't see the MLB or MLBPA budging. This is going to cost us a regularly scheduled start to the season.

I agree that MLB tanking is truly not an issue because of the way drafting works. This does lead me though to add that having expanded playoffs also helps with tanking, since teams have less excuses to stink since there is amble opportunity to make the playoffs.

[swoboda]

Significant movement at the table , would not want to bet more than a dollar but looks to me like the delay to Spring Training could be minimal:

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mlbpa-c...ks-progressing

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by swoboda

Significant movement at the table , would not want to bet more than a dollar but looks to me like the delay to Spring Training could be minimal:

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mlbpa-c...ks-progressing

They're agreeing and compromising on the little ****. The biggest concerns remain set in stone, with zero movement.

[swoboda]

Owners invite in the federal mediator players reject that proposal.
I think this is a big PR mistake by the players.
......and my optimism for only a short delay to spring training just evaporated.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by swoboda

Owners invite in the federal mediator players reject that proposal.
I think this is a big PR mistake by the players.
......and my optimism for only a short delay to spring training just evaporated.

Both sides started the process entrenched in their mutually reprehensible positions.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by swoboda

Owners invite in the federal mediator players reject that proposal.
I think this is a big PR mistake by the players.
......and my optimism for only a short delay to spring training just evaporated.

The MLBPA remembers that in 1994 Federal mediators did nothing at all and wasted months of time.
And the Federal mediators too also tend to be retired judges or former DOJ officials who are friends of the owners or at least run in the same circles.

[swoboda]

U.S. Secretary of Labor Marty Walsh stated he and his offices are available to help resolve differences between the two parties.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

The MLBPA remembers that in 1994 Federal mediators did nothing at all and wasted months of time.
And the Federal mediators too also tend to be retired judges or former DOJ officials who are friends of the owners or at least run in the same circles.

Some articles I've read have pointed out that mediation makes the process take longer. And they say that this is what the owners want to happen. Owners want games to be missed because that's where the players' money comes from. They say the owners think that once the players are losing money, the players will be easier to persuade to the owners' plans.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Some articles I've read have pointed out that mediation makes the process take longer. And they say that this is what the owners want to happen. Owners want games to be missed because that's where the players' money comes from. They say the owners think that once the players are losing money, the players will be easier to persuade to the owners' plans.

There's also the issue that sports leagues typically promise a minimum # of games to their RSNs in their tv contracts so until it gets to the point that they're eating into those minimum games MLB isn't losing as much money as they could be. Yes, MLB loses some money from day 1 (gate rev, etc), but the players lose a larger % of theirs on day 1.

One could also speculate that teams are more insulated from losses than the players as they're probably wealthier and may be more fiscally responsible.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by kq76

There's also the issue that sports leagues typically promise a minimum # of games to their RSNs in their tv contracts so until it gets to the point that they're eating into those minimum games MLB isn't losing as much money as they could be. Yes, MLB loses some money from day 1 (gate rev, etc), but the players lose a larger % of theirs on day 1.

One could also speculate that teams are more insulated from losses than the players as they're probably wealthier and may be more fiscally responsible.

I agree here.

The one thing I don't like is how the players have limited rights for five full years.

If you don't make the majors until age 26, then your career is on the downside five years later.

It SHOULD be five years control, or age 28, whichever hits first.

This would be more incentive to play or trade younger players, rather than stockpiling them in the minors, just in case of injury.

[low]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Some articles I've read have pointed out that mediation makes the process take longer. And they say that this is what the owners want to happen. Owners want games to be missed because that's where the players' money comes from. They say the owners think that once the players are losing money, the players will be easier to persuade to the owners' plans.

Makes sense to me. Either way, the owners can all take long walks off short piers.