How bout' we release everyone on the roster? Eh?

[Sweed]

A few points here...
I started playing oopt last year using Rolen's roster. I started with real players so I would have a base of names that I already knew and could have some expectaitons for. However I understood from the beginning that these expectations shouldn't be set in stone as all these "names" really are is a bunch of ratings that the AI looks at. I understood going in that if the AI batted Bonds 8th instead of 3rd that it is because of the ratings and to tell you the truth I could care less because this is not a game based in reality. I play all my games one at a time and eventually my entire league will be fictional, it may take 20 sesaons to do but I assure you I will enjoy each one.

I bring all this up because we are discussing here why these "real" players were released. Too me it's simple they are not real players but a "bag of ratings" and nothing more. Last year so many were complaining that the Gforce-Rolen roster was so late and they couldn't play without them and the full minors. The "I have to have the exact opening day roster" crowd so I can have a real world experience. At that time I posted and will say again now that as soon as you start your season your reality is going to go out the window. The AI is going to run it's teams as it sees fit by the whatever means the game engine provides. Players are going to be cut, traded, demoted, and retire in unreal life like fassion. Unless you do a league where you control all the teams that's just the way it's going to be. I do respect all the time and work that Gforce puts into his roster set. I don't understand all the guys that say they need every player, lineup, rotation, and minor league to be opening day perfect. I have to believe from all the "this is unrealistic" posts we see that they just don't understand that the minute they start their season it's all going to change.

As far as keeping aging vets around, in the current game I can't see any reason to do it. Unless and unitl some type of "fan favorite" rating is developed so "Joe Blow" actually can affect attendance the better player should always play. As it is now this vet does not bring in an extra 5000 fans because they know who he is and may set a record. There is no extra income from these 5000 seats per game to go sign that free agent pitcher we need next year so that argument goes out the window. These are not bad ideas IMHO but as Henry said above these are not going to minor patch changes but hopefully additions to future versions of the game. I know if it comes to winning or playing the vet I'll go for the wins and I want the AI to do the same.

[Henry]

Originally posted by Sweed
A few points here...
I started playing oopt last year using Rolen's roster. I started with real players so I would have a base of names that I already knew and could have some expectaitons for. However I understood from the beginning that these expectations shouldn't be set in stone as all these "names" really are is a bunch of ratings that the AI looks at. I understood going in that if the AI batted Bonds 8th instead of 3rd that it is because of the ratings and to tell you the truth I could care less because this is not a game based in reality. I play all my games one at a time and eventually my entire league will be fictional, it may take 20 sesaons to do but I assure you I will enjoy each one.

I bring all this up because we are discussing here why these "real" players were released. Too me it's simple they are not real players but a "bag of ratings" and nothing more. Last year so many were complaining that the Gforce-Rolen roster was so late and they couldn't play without them and the full minors. The "I have to have the exact opening day roster" crowd so I can have a real world experience. At that time I posted and will say again now that as soon as you start your season your reality is going to go out the window. The AI is going to run it's teams as it sees fit by the whatever means the game engine provides. Players are going to be cut, traded, demoted, and retire in unreal life like fassion. Unless you do a league where you control all the teams that's just the way it's going to be. I do respect all the time and work that Gforce puts into his roster set. I don't understand all the guys that say they need every player, lineup, rotation, and minor league to be opening day perfect. I have to believe from all the "this is unrealistic" posts we see that they just don't understand that the minute they start their season it's all going to change.

As far as keeping aging vets around, in the current game I can't see any reason to do it. Unless and unitl some type of "fan favorite" rating is developed so "Joe Blow" actually can affect attendance the better player should always play. As it is now this vet does not bring in an extra 5000 fans because they know who he is and may set a record. There is no extra income from these 5000 seats per game to go sign that free agent pitcher we need next year so that argument goes out the window. These are not bad ideas IMHO but as Henry said above these are not going to minor patch changes but hopefully additions to future versions of the game. I know if it comes to winning or playing the vet I'll go for the wins and I want the AI to do the same.

Well said.... Henry

[sixfour210]

As far as keeping aging vets around, in the current game I can't see any reason to do it. Unless and unitl some type of "fan favorite" rating is developed so "Joe Blow" actually can affect attendance the better player should always play. As it is now this vet does not bring in an extra 5000 fans because they know who he is and may set a record. There is no extra income from these 5000 seats per game to go sign that free agent pitcher we need next year so that argument goes out the window. These are not bad ideas IMHO but as Henry said above these are not going to minor patch changes but hopefully additions to future versions of the game. I know if it comes to winning or playing the vet I'll go for the wins and I want the AI to do the same.

I realize there's no point in keeping vets around in the game. That is certainly not my point and no one elses for that matter. What I'm saying is that there is a point in keeping veterans around in the MLB.

If the OOTP series is going to give up on making the game more realistic and close to MLB, then I have no argument and will stop but Markus still seems like he wants to create a game that reflects real baseball as close as possible then I would like to suggest what should be done.

[Steve Kuffrey]

I think that as far as the player development/statistical side of things that we do want to make it as realistic as possible, that being said it is not always a cut and dried issue but as we continue to improve and deepen the game I feel certain that more of a "real feel" to some of these areas will come. As I mentioned before oftentimes making a change in one area effects another and so alot of issues have to be considered and tweaked to get the right balance.

Many of the comments and thoughts in this thread are very good, but the realization is that wholesale change won't happen overnight or with a patch(most likely), so IMO patience is the order of the day. We take most of the comments seriously but it may be awhile before visable action is taken on them.....not always our desire but just the way things are.

[Sweed]

Originally posted by sixfour210
I realize there's no point in keeping vets around in the game. That is certainly not my point and no one elses for that matter. What I'm saying is that there is a point in keeping veterans around in the MLB.

If the OOTP series is going to give up on making the game more realistic and close to MLB, then I have no argument and will stop but Markus still seems like he wants to create a game that reflects real baseball as close as possible then I would like to suggest what should be done.

Hey, I totally agree that this is a good thing to try to get into the next version and I said so. I'm looking at all the posts, not just in this thread, that are saying "why are we cutting this guy when he has 290 wins?" "Why are we cutting all these minor leaguers?" The simple answer is the ratings. So unitl we get some kind of financial or other reward for keeping these vets, AI team or human, it's not going to happen. IRL Ripken played not because the Oriole owner liked him but because fans did and paid to see him play. It would have been interesting if the Orioles were good and there were playoff implications to him playing. What if they would of had a young Scott Rolen or Albert Pujlos (sp) sitting on the bench and been one game behind the Yankees?

Then of course comes the programing to get the AI to understand the "fan favorite" or the "impact player". Easy or hard to do? Who knows that "little" problem would be for Markus

[sixfour210]

I realize this will take time. I'm not one of those guys who is utterly fed up with certain things about the game. I only get a little animated when someone tells me that this and that shouldn't be changed when I think it should.

[mh2365]

Originally posted by TwinMonster
I kind of like the vetern "enhancement" idea. Perhaps it could be one of those option things like finances, trading, injuries, etc. That way those who might like it can use it, and those who don't can just skip it. Definately a down-the-road enhancement.

I like this Idea also but the human player would have to be penalized greatly if they dump a player like this ... mybe fan support drops drastically and it takes a long time to rebuild ... the problem with this is that whenever the developers try to penalize or prevent the human managers from doing something (i.e not being able to edit yourself a great team in manager mode) people cry that I paid my 35$ and should be abel to cheat whenever I want .... I try to keep myself from ripping off the computer, but it'd be nice if I had the threat of a penalty to keep me from doing so .... how great would it be if you ripped off the computer during trades a couple of times, like by keep adding and subtracting players until you screw the computer, and all of a sudden no GM would trade with you and it stayed that way for a year or two .... one of the few things I like about FOF is when the other owners quit talking to you ... I thought it was funny that fanboy came so quickly in this thread and by a newbie who has no life and the time to post 200+ times in a month ... glad I have a life and a wife that gives me something to do other than post here 8-10 times a day

[Steve Kuffrey]

Great ideas for penalties here, these would be a great way to deter someone from ripping off the computer teams. Course as you say, people would complain then that they can't "play the way they want".