OOTP 16 Update #7, Version 16.7.36 Released!

[david limbaugh]

It is just a game - with support far superior to anyone else's...

These rants must be from people who have never worked in the software industry?

We are fortunate to be able to get the game straight from the developer. When you release a droid app or an Apple app or a Steam game they make the developer jump through hoops. You don't just give Steam an install package and they drop it on an FTP site, they have to incorporate it into their app, at their speed, when they get the time to do it, along with the other submittals they are receiving at the same time.

Try getting this level of support from AutoDesk, or EA Sports, or Sierra (when Sierra use to make sports games).

This game offers a tremendous bang for the buck (anyone else remember buying Strat-O-Matic years ago, how much it costs, and then having to buy season cards every year?)

Keeping stats in 3-ring binders (No PCs or Excel back then - Lotus was a godsend on a Zenith Heath-Kit 286 with 2 floppy drives!)

If you are a commissioner or play in an on-line league, think of this as production software. Never be the first to upgrade, always let others be the pioneers.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by Assos

Hopefully they are asleep since it is 5 am in Germany (if Matt is in Germany this time). Since they worked all weekend to fix the patch.

I can tell you, I have played many a years and I have had versions and patches wreck the living heck out of a season I had spent a year or two working on.

Why is there two systems? I use to play Eve via steam and sometimes the log in would not work because of steam. I would e-mail Steam and they would say nothing is wrong I would have to re -install. Sometimes that worked, other times not. There is an example of two systems.

Sadly, sooner or later, most stand alone games will disappear because of the way the world is going, good or bad. I played the awful Sim City game that EA put out. It was all about being connected at all times and not able to play the game offline, among one of the problems. It took them months to work out the issues. At least here, you are getting a patch and the develops are listening.
So you did not get a flawed patch, you should be thankful! There are very few developers that care like this team. I have been playing games for a long time, I have shelled out $50 for junk a number of times and before the internet when the game was final and not patched.
And in the end, it is just a game, it can be replaced!

Assos, I learned years ago (OOTP4?) to save my .lg file to other places to recover from the wrecks.

I remember cringing when doing certain things because you feared the old crash to desktop and corrupted league - or text files that don't apply anymore if you have to backtrack.

My routine now is copy the .lg file to a different internal drive (that copies quickly so wait time low) and then copy from that drive to an external drive - USB3 - still takes longer)

I do these copies at the end of the season after all awards and everything is set and then opening day after I have all the rosters and lineups and pitching rotation sets.

I basically have an archive folder of every season twice, end of the year and opening day. If something goes bump in July - I just punt and reload the opening day .lg file again and try to not to do that again....

[IsaacR]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

I basically have an archive folder of every season twice, end of the year and opening day. If something goes bump in July - I just punt and reload the opening day .lg file again and try to not to do that again....

I've taken to doing the same. And it really is a smart idea. I was playing today, and just before the championship ended my knee hit the power button on my computer and shut it off.


Laughed at my stupidity, until I loaded OOTP again and got the corrupt world.dat file message.


So I'll resim the season, but only because I still have the league file.


And I know that it's unrelated to the theme of this thread (which is a bunch of fuss over nothing imo) but just more support for the saving the .lg file somewhere else.

[jpeters1734]

holy crap gtaltman, get a grip. you sure love attention, don't you? Stop threatening and follow through. take your money and attitude somewhere else.

[polydamas]

Hey,

I have this guy asking for $2,000,000 in a league where the average salary is $30,000. I reported it at least a month ago and I have gotten any update since one of the guys said he sent it to the devs. Is there any way that this could be patched in a future patch? I can no longer play my Dream League as the bug is debilitating. Thank you if you read this.

[Lukas Berger]

Ok guys, please cool it with the complaints, accusations, recriminations and fighting.

If this was any other thread than a patch release, it would be shut down by now.

You've all made your points, for what they're worth, and if they have merit they'll be taken into consideration. At any rate, Markus, Andreas, and Matt will certainly read them.

Belaboring the point and lashing out isn't going to make anyone any more likely to be heard favorably.

Since it is a patch thread, Markus will deal with all this as he sees fit, but this is definitely not doing anyone's cause any good

So again, please cool it

[Saul Goodman]

Just a quick question about starting up a game.

If I start a new game with all leagues loaded (Japan, Australia, Korea etc) - for MLB should I then disable the generation options for International Established FA's/International Amateur FA's/Independent FA's etc?

Basically would having all those leagues active mean that international players playing in foreign leagues or Indy players would go to MLB (or attempt to?) without needing to have the game generate extra players in the players setting for MLB?

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by GTAltman

That they screwed up in the first place.

How often do I have to say this again? Doing builds takes TIME! It takes the whole day to build, upload, verify, distribute, test etc. our own eSellerate builds (3 platforms, remember?). 10 hours total. And since we have only one person doing this, the Steam update has to wait another day. Always, unless we find a way to speed up the process in the future. That's just the way it is.

And regarding your position towards if we should have released build 33 to Steam, my answer is a firm "NO". Period. If you disagree, fine. But it is what it is. If your commish screwed up by updating immediately, then I am sorry, but don't put this on us.

Alright, I consider this topic to be closed now.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Steam build is now live and the Mac Appstore version has been submitted to Apple for review

[battists]

Originally Posted by GTAltman

BTW, not a single post here, not a single thought has been to what can be done to make this right....

So, I think part of your issue here is your rage at what most people on this forum regard as one of the best "customer-focused" software developers on the planet.



Think about it . . . you're upset because Markus and crew worked like mad to release a patch AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, and this one after they announced they were done with patches for this version.



Is this what EA does? Is this what other big developers do? With most big developers, you get one or two patches and then they're done, and screw you if you have a problem that ruins the way you play the game. This is not some giant conglomerate. It has essentially been two guys writing this game for years, with a ton of testing help from volunteers and passionate fans, and now in the last year or so they have added a few more bodies for the first time.



Anyway, listen, I don't disagree with you that there is room for process improvement here. I've worked with / known Markus for a long long time. At the end of the day, he's a developer, with a developer's mindset. He's not the best (IMHO) with big picture stuff like "Hey, this is how this patch is going to affect this subset of our customers who play in online leagues whose commissioners aren't rigorously controlling their version, I'd better do this this way." He just wants to improve his game and get it out to people.



They obviously thought at least at a high level about Steam or they wouldn't have made the decision to hold the first patch from Steam since a new one was coming out, but it's clear that they just didn't realize the impact on cases like yours.



So again, I completely agree it's an area where there could be some improvement. But your anger against OOTP Dev for their "poor customer service" is sorely misplaced in my opinion.

[TPinrose]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

. If your commish screwed up by updating immediately, then I am sorry, but don't put this on us.

I'm not freaking out about this, but this seems a bit unfair. There was no mention in patch notes that league commissioners should hold off on patching. Also, in the world of online leagues very few people have only one league. The commish in one league is very often a player in a couple others. Sometimes whether to patch or not patch is a tricky thing because leagues don't all patch at once.

[Orioles1966]

I usually wait weeks before ever downloading a new patch. Don't see the need too do so. If there are problems with the new patch,it's better too wait it out for a short while.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by TPinrose

I'm not freaking out about this, but this seems a bit unfair. There was no mention in patch notes that league commissioners should hold off on patching. Also, in the world of online leagues very few people have only one league. The commish in one league is very often a player in a couple others. Sometimes whether to patch or not patch is a tricky thing because leagues don't all patch at once.

They didn't know that there was going to be an issue with the patch, that is the point. It's not a good idea for commissioners to patch right away in general, not a specific thing with this patch. This patch was just an exception that proved the rule.

[battists]

Originally Posted by TPinrose

I'm not freaking out about this, but this seems a bit unfair. There was no mention in patch notes that league commissioners should hold off on patching. Also, in the world of online leagues very few people have only one league. The commish in one league is very often a player in a couple others. Sometimes whether to patch or not patch is a tricky thing because leagues don't all patch at once.

I don't really disagree with this, although I do think it is on the commissioners to control versions.

I do think Markus and crew could add some boilerplate when they release patches encouraging online leagues to update all at one time to ensure maximum stability for the league. But I think that recommendation would be the same regardless of the nature of the patch.

As for people who play in multiple different leagues... I dunno man, at some point the responsibility has to go onto the player himself. The only alternative is for OOTP to go into a model like PS4 where, once a patch is released, everyone is forced to update. And I somehow think that would be met with quite a bit of unhappiness.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Rain King

They didn't know that there was going to be an issue with the patch, that is the point. It's not a good idea for commissioners to patch right away in general, not a specific thing with this patch. This patch was just an exception that proved the rule.

But part of the problem is a lot of users thought the opposite was true. That as long as the commish is patched everything would be fine. That's probably why so many online leagues were halted. It was definitely a lesson for me as a commish.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

How often do I have to say this again? Doing builds takes TIME! It takes the whole day to build, upload, verify, distribute, test etc. our own eSellerate builds (3 platforms, remember?). 10 hours total. And since we have only one person doing this, the Steam update has to wait another day. Always, unless we find a way to speed up the process in the future. That's just the way it is.

And regarding your position towards if we should have released build 33 to Steam, my answer is a firm "NO". Period. If you disagree, fine. But it is what it is. If your commish screwed up by updating immediately, then I am sorry, but don't put this on us.

Alright, I consider this topic to be closed now.

Keep on chooglin', Markus. You (and Matt) don't have to explain any more.

[rpriske]

This just cements my opinion when the STEAM deal was first announced... uh, why would I want to do that?

I buy the game from OOTP... download it... play it.

Why make it more complicated?

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by TPinrose

I'm not freaking out about this, but this seems a bit unfair. There was no mention in patch notes that league commissioners should hold off on patching. Also, in the world of online leagues very few people have only one league. The commish in one league is very often a player in a couple others. Sometimes whether to patch or not patch is a tricky thing because leagues don't all patch at once.

I don't normally get involved in heated "discussions" such as this, but I have to agree with the above point. Releasing a patch and then telling people it's their fault for installing the patch isn't a good way to go about business.

I am as stout a supporter of Markus and OOTP as you'll find, but I disagree that it's the league commissioner's fault for installing a patch that OOTP released to the masses. The complications the patch caused are unfortunate, but in no way are they the fault of the consumers. Shame on you for suggesting they are, Markus.

EDIT TO ADD: I do agree with the notion that commissioners should make sure all league members can update before installing the patch. But that doesn't excuse the fact that a broken patch was introduced, which created these problems in the first place.

[Hoiles]

I played a bit with the new patched up game and there is some noticeable improvement in the AI regarding depth charts compared to last week's version. The commish issue (while not affecting me) is a legitimate concern but, as mentioned, something to improve on rather than reflecting the quality of the development team. I think it's very impressive that they got a patch out over the weekend (during summer no less) that addressed some player concerns.

[strzepeksc]

Originally Posted by TPinrose

I'm not freaking out about this, but this seems a bit unfair. There was no mention in patch notes that league commissioners should hold off on patching. Also, in the world of online leagues very few people have only one league. The commish in one league is very often a player in a couple others. Sometimes whether to patch or not patch is a tricky thing because leagues don't all patch at once.

I for one just hope in the future a little "beware of" consequences with this patch be proclaimed by OOTP because I thought it was just a maintenance patch and was backwards compatible and I jumped in with
blinders on and messed up the whole league as Commish! Not all of us are "computer savy" with that level of understanding needed.