What will be your PRIMARY mode?

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

You would be in a heavy minority.

Maybe but it would be the realist minority

The one who don't expect to see Warren Young getting 72 pts in 84-85 without Lemieux or Brett Hull scoring 85 goals in 90-91 without Adam Oates. A player production depend of who he play with, not just his talent.

[tcblcommish]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Maybe but it would be the realist minority

The one who don't expect to see Warren Young getting 72 pts in 84-85 without Lemieux or Brett Hull scoring 85 goals in 90-91 without Adam Oates. A player production depend of who he play with, not just his talent.

I fully agree with you, I just know that with historical leagues, this stuff will come up. In baseball, it is so much easier to get a player to follow his stats in a career and have just a little difference but not so much with hockey. There is so much that goes into the makeup of a hockey player that isn't measured in stats. This could be a problem for historical simmers for the reason I have stated earlier.

Time will tell and I am very anxious to try it and see how it sims but the complaints will fill the boards.

[ihatenames]

I always play fictional players but real teams and leagues. I intend to continue that with this game once fictional makes it in.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

Time will tell and I am very anxious to try it and see how it sims but the complaints will fill the boards.

You are certainly right, we will see complaints as we see every years for the OOTP ML rooster. But for me it's the fun part of managing / coaching my favorite team and correcting the errors done. I want to see how our awfull string of eighties first choice draft pick (Yves Heroux, Trevor Stienburg, David Latta, Ken McRae and Bryan Fogarty) would have done with a real chance. I want to know what could have done high rated players like Daniel Dore, Ryan Hughes or Paul Brousseau who got zero chance with the team after being drafted.

I don't want to see a carborn copy of the real life, but a past I can change. Common I don't want to see my Nordiques suck big time from 1987-88 to 1991-92

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by tward13

Difference is Historical and Modern both use real players while fictional allows for whatever.

If you look at the individual posts where people ranked them in order, fictional was the last choice more often.

And I agree of course with the person who pointed out that 90 some is a small sample size.

Historical and modern can also use fictional players, and are not restricted to real players only.

[tward13]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Historical and modern can also use fictional players, and are not restricted to real players only.

OK, but to me it's not historical if the players and league are not real.

[Craignum]

My original plan, assuming its possible, is to play a modern day game with a fictional league. I just like the idea of a league full of the "best of the rest" with maybe a few people who might jump ship (RFA's and such) from the NHL.

So likely create a league, likely a reincarnation of the WHA, with 8-10 teams and somehow try to get them on the same level as NHL as far as "player draw" or just slightly below, then set their inagural season to be whatever the next year is (so 2014 is the default start will be 2013 for instance). This will give the teams a year or so to put together teams of the best free agents and stuff they can.

Cities I'm planning on having:
Toronto
Hamilton
Quebec
Saskatoon
New York
Seattle
Kansas City
Las Vegas
Houston (Likey have the Aeroes leave the AHL)
Hershey (Likely have the Bears leave the AHL, maybe as Pennsylvania)

I hope its possible to do this effectively with an editor. Any idea for team names?

The other stuff I may likely do is go back and re-do the 1993 Expansion draft and play a long game as the Panthers.

[Habsfan18]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

You are certainly right, we will see complaints as we see every years for the OOTP ML rooster. But for me it's the fun part of managing / coaching my favorite team and correcting the errors done. I want to see how our awfull string of eighties first choice draft pick (Yves Heroux, Trevor Stienburg, David Latta, Ken McRae and Bryan Fogarty) would have done with a real chance. I want to know what could have done high rated players like Daniel Dore, Ryan Hughes or Paul Brousseau who got zero chance with the team after being drafted.

I don't want to see a carborn copy of the real life, but a past I can change. Common I don't want to see my Nordiques suck big time from 1987-88 to 1991-92

Thing is though, historical mode will use a fairly accurate ranking system, so those guys in the game will be like their actual NHL selves, and not what they were projected to be.

Think 1 or 2 star guys, regardless really of how you develop them. Reserve list players. If the skill/potential isn't there, it ain't going to happen..

I'm hoping that eventually though, we can go with options (to either turn it on or off) using the real drafts and their potentials being based off their draft rankings. I'd love to take guys like Brent Bilodeau, Lindsay Vallis and Terry Ryan and try to turn them into the future Habs they were supposed to be. But it appears as it stands now, in an accurate historical sim, those guys will be lower level players.

I think more or less with the first version, assuming everything works out, we are going to see pretty much a carbon copy. And that's great. Let's start there, then add options and different historical ranking systems with future versions to give us different experiences.

And let's be clear that it won't be an EXACT carbon copy. Some will depend on how we choose to develop players, just don't expect to take a guy like Paul Brosseau and turn him into a top 6 sniper on a good team.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Thing is though, historical mode will use a fairly accurate ranking system, so those guys in the game will be like their actual NHL selves, and not what they were projected to be.

Not necessarily it depends if

1. the player is created first with the database number,
2. we don't use the recalculation mode,
3. we let the game developing engine took over,
4. we give the player enough ice time to improve,
5. we place the player on a good line.

Whatever the game say if I want Stephane Morin (or Gilbert Dionne) to become better player he was I just need to give him a real spot on the first two lines and the power play.

BTW Brent Bilodeau won't be in the database as he had never played a single game in the NHL

[Habsfan18]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Not necessarily it depends if

1. the player is created first with the database number,
2. we don't use the recalculation mode,
3. we let the game developing engine took over,
4. we give the player enough ice time to improve,
5. we place the player on a good line.

Whatever the game say if I want Stephane Morin (or Gilbert Dionne) to become better player he was I just need to give him a real spot on the first two lines and the power play.

BTW Brent Bilodeau won't be in the database as he had never played a single game in the NHL

You're right about Bilodeau! Slipped my mind, as for some reason I thought he had played a game or two.

From what I understand though, the player is going to be entered into the database while keeping in mind a fairly accurate historical sim. So, a player like Brosseau or Morin will likely be rated with 1 or 2 star potential when you draft them. So keeping this in mind, no matter how you develop them, 9 times (or maybe even 10) out of 10 they aren't going to be a productive player. Even if you take the game development engine into account, fact is the player is still listed as a 1 star player in the database.

Of course, I could be understanding it wrong. Because honestly I'd rather it be the way you say. It would be cool to take busts and turn them into serviceable players. But if I remember correctly I remember Jeff basically stating that no matter which options you use, you'll still likely get a somewhat accurate historical sim each time. ie..If a player didn't stick in the NHL in real life, and if he was put into database keeping that in mind, that's pretty much what you're going to get in your game.

Maybe Jeff can come in and shed some light on this.

[Habsfan18]

Here is a previous quote from Jeff:

Well, if you set up the game at the start to use the same development model as the non-historical game (as opposed to recalculating the ratings year-by-year), yeah, there's going to be the possibility of a player getting better or worse than he was historically.

But that's going to be a fairly rare event. Even on the most liberal settings, the vast majority of the time players will turn out similarly to real life. So that's going to make the drafts in the historical game a lot more optimized than they were in real life, unless the AI drafting is completely stupid.

That said, I can think of a way to get the drafts to run in a more 'historical' way if there's really a demand for it. But it's not going to be possible to do in this version as it would mean a bunch of additional data entry for me and I've got more than enough of that to deal with already.

[AESP_pres]

But there is a possibility

If I use Guy Lafleur on a third line like in the first season of his career in real life he will never become the great scorer he was, the reverse is also true with a lesser player playing on a better line.

[erikthered]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

I wouldn't. A player production depend of who play with him, how much ice time he got and his ice time on the power play.

Gretzky without Kurri or Semenko isn't the same player, just like Goulet without Hunter isn't a 50 goal players.

For the baseball it's different, a player like Babe Ruth or Barry Bonds will get more or less the same production in OOTP than his real life counterpart (of course the injury history can change that). As who they play with doesn't change their ability considering that offensive performances are individual and depend of no one.

Actually, over the years, I've come to believe that linemates don't have a huge impact on a player's production. I don't have the time or resources to do a full statistical analysis of linemates through history, but you can see a little bit of an example in a thread about Rick Nash over at TBN. That's not to say there's no impact, I just don't think it's as huge as people make it out to be.

More discussion, again centered around Nash.

[The Yeti's Growl]

I'm definitely going to start with the 2013 season but I might play a lot of dead puck era seasons, mainly late 90s-early 2000s.

Originally Posted by erikthered

Actually, over the years, I've come to believe that linemates don't have a huge impact on a player's production. I don't have the time or resources to do a full statistical analysis of linemates through history, but you can see a little bit of an example in a thread about Rick Nash over at TBN. That's not to say there's no impact, I just don't think it's as huge as people make it out to be.

More discussion, again centered around Nash.

TBN!

[discodude5]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

I fully agree with you, I just know that with historical leagues, this stuff will come up. In baseball, it is so much easier to get a player to follow his stats in a career and have just a little difference but not so much with hockey. There is so much that goes into the makeup of a hockey player that isn't measured in stats. This could be a problem for historical simmers for the reason I have stated earlier.

Time will tell and I am very anxious to try it and see how it sims but the complaints will fill the boards.

I expect it will take at least 3 years to get historical and modern stats to start to be more consistently realistic.
I imagine this first year we will have a lot of weird things happening like historically 4th line grinders putting up 50 goal seasons and superstars that can't break 50 points.

I'm a fictional OOTP player and since I get my fix of modern NHL with EA sports I will try historical but will look forward to fictional in FHM.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Historical and modern can also use fictional players, and are not restricted to real players only.

When I've played OOTP in a modern or historical mode, I've usually tweaked things a little bit, by adding a fictional player or two. I actually like some variation from reality in my game "universes." I never got too bent out of shape if Babe Ruth hit 500 home runs instead of over 700, and I thought it was fun when Roy Hitt and Del Mason had Hall of Fame pitching careers.

I'll probably do this with FHM, too. I'll create a fictional player growing up in Canada in the 1930s, let's say, and see where his career takes him. Or I'll create an entire league in smaller cities and follow its history.