(the new) player development budget

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

Anyway back on topic, I hope this leads to some additions to minor leagues in the future. Such as upgrading facities and quality of training in the minors.

I like the player development budget as an innovation in this release, but on this specific point I am not sure I would agree. As you probably know, Football Manager does something similar with training facilities and facilities for their youth academy, or whatever they call, it, but that strikes me as a little too detailed and fussy. If OOTP gives us a chance to put more or less money into "player development," wouldn't that include the items you mention?
I do agree (and have repeatedly said on this forum over the years) that the minor leagues deserve a lot more TLC than they have gotten from Markus, but the things I would like to see added would be stuff like minor league financials, purchase of contracts, and that sort of thing.

[tejdog1]

It sounds like he's made some (much needed) changes to the IFA process, too.

Will there be a July 2 IFA signing thing like there is IRL?

[Dregen]

I'm shocked at all the backlash on this feature. It makes the game more realistic and anything that does that makes me excited about the game. I'll definitely be using it.

[SteveV]

Originally Posted by Dregen

I'm shocked at all the backlash on this feature. It makes the game more realistic and anything that does that makes me excited about the game. I'll definitely be using it.

Its because there are so many different ways to play OOTP -It seems like Players in online leagues like to have financials equalised so that the game is a 'pure' test of organisational/decision making skills. Some long time Solo players who use real world rosters think its a cheap way to improve your prospects without having to manipulate your Farm System 'correctly' as they would see it. Other players who only play fictional leagues may not be bothered one way or t he other but If you want the game to be a fairly realistic simulation of real world MLB though it should be in there IMO.

[RonCo]

At question for me is what the development budget is meant to simulate. Today and OOTP team's player development budget is defined by what they pay coaches. That leaves:

- minor league player salaries
- minor league affiliate expense
- advisors (roving coaches)
- foreign baseball academies
- other "camps" (though this could be better described as scouting)

Personally, if I were designing the feature I would leave coaches as is, I would add an option to have minor league salaries defined at each level, and provide teams the options of hiring additional coaches and set up academies. That's four cost drivers that could be included that would make the game a better simulation. All should be optional, of course.

Merely having a slider that gives one overall budget doesn't seem to me to be particularly fun, nor does it seem to make a whole lot of logic.

[RonCo]

Perhaps you can add draft pick bonuses to the "player development" budget, too.

[mtlcash]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

It really just depends on how you play. I play strictly in the role of a gm/pres and I could care a less about on the field options, that's why I hired a manager. The more financial options the better for me. I would love for the player development budget to get expanded more. Maybe it can be broken down into levels of minors. Then you can choose to spend more on pitching rather then hitting, or the other way around.

I say more micromanaging!! Expand scouting, let me set vendor prices in the stadiums, let me have bobble-head days, let me negotiate sponsor deals, ect.
Oh and let me get married, have kids.

Great points. Baseball is a business, make no mistake about it. There should be more ways to spend money, and improving several areas. I would love if there were those options you mentioned along with other things that MLB clubs really spend money on. I hope more stuff like that is added.

[mm7607]

Originally Posted by mtlcash

Great points. Baseball is a business, make no mistake about it. There should be more ways to spend money, and improving several areas. I would love if there were those options you mentioned along with other things that MLB clubs really spend money on. I hope more stuff like that is added.

I don't want to play 'the business' I want to play 'the game'. The way the game is progressing now eventually its going to so full of financial crap the game itself is going to be lost in the shuffle.

[Henry]

Let's be clear guys, everything Markus adds has an on/off switch or the ability to be set to "average". That's what gives each of us a custom setup for the type of game we want. The only thing we have to be sure of is that the "extras" don't somehow offer an advantage or "cheat" to a player in the online leagues - and I have faith Markus can insure that.

[robc]

I'm not against the player development budget as a new feature, but it just seems shallow like some of the other features. If you want to have the game be a baseball business simulation then the game needs to have more depth to it and provide the user with the tools to make meaningful choices. For example, setting the ticket prices doesn't provide any fun for me. The only tool you have to examine is how attendence changes. That attendence graph is pretty limited. It would be nice to display the ticket price changes on the graph, along with maybe the teams performace. You need the tools to determine what effect the price change has on attendence. You also need to consider the effect it has on merchandise income. A lower ticket price may raise attendence enough to generate more merchandise sales, but there aren't any tools to evaluate these things.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Really? Examples please.

In real baseball prospects play in the minors and develop accordingly. We already have coaches that work with these players, where in the real world is extra money spent above and beyond the regular minors/winter leagues/ etc that already have coaches?

I can't give you hard numbers but teams have development directors. My guess is that the development budget handles things like instructional leagues and what ever new draftees who have not moved up to low A do when the short seasons are over until the next June. Baseball has instructional leagues which are not in the game and teams have instructional staff. Often new draftees who do not sign until late will go to instructional leagues and I suppose teams have non-offical games for minor league guys below A. I am sure it is not just go home and see you from June to September.

A real life example of a development director's bio.
Houston Astros Executives

"Ricky oversees the operation of the club's player development system and six minor league affiliates, while also fulfilling his duties as assistant general manager."

The development system is more than just go out and play boys. I am not sure exactly what is done in the system but there is an element beyond coaching and just playing games on the official minor league schedule. My hunch is most of this stuff is instructional leagues to help guys get on track and bring new draftees who missed most of the short season up to speed as well as training of low minors guys who only play 3 months a year.

I like the idea of this actually. It doesn't sound like too much micro-management.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by mm7607

I don't want to play 'the business' I want to play 'the game'. The way the game is progressing now eventually its going to so full of financial crap the game itself is going to be lost in the shuffle.

For some the financial crap is the game. Not ever one wants to be the lineup card creator and daily game decision maker. Some of want to play pure GM and handle finances and team building as opposed to being the on field manager. You can always let the AI GM for you.

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

For some the financial crap is the game. Not ever one wants to be the lineup card creator and daily game decision maker. Some of want to play pure GM and handle finances and team building as opposed to being the on field manager. You can always let the AI GM for you.

I don't think I've managed in-game since... uh... um... OOTP3? I watch many games of importance, but I'm primarily either GM or "god."

[oman19]

I personally KIND OF play a mix between GM and manager. I let the Manager handle the on the field calls and when to give days off. But I handle line-ups, depth charts, and pitching rotation along with all major league transactions and the draft. Then hit quick play each day and review the box score.

The financial aspect of this game to me is awesome when it comes to players but I could care less about setting ticket prices and everything else.

My goal when I make a league is to make every team be on even ground and not be handicapped by anything financially. So I probably will turn this off myself. But as I always tell everyone. To each their own.

I'm loving my league right now where I'm using a $100m salary cap. Started in 2011 and we're just going into the 2019 season and the Yankees are 1 of 5 teams never to make the playoffs and it's not looking hopeful for them early this year either lol.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by mm7607

I don't want to play 'the business' I want to play 'the game'. The way the game is progressing now eventually its going to so full of financial crap the game itself is going to be lost in the shuffle.

It is impossible to simulate 'the game' past 1977 without a good financial system. Like it or not money has had as much to do in determining championships as skill for the last 25+ year. If financials are continually ignored like they are each and every iteration of OOTP then what is really the point of trying to play a 'modern' game.

If you don't want an accurate financial system you don't want OOTP to accurate simulate a modern MLB like universe. If time is going to be stupidly wasted on historical play (yeah, repeating history, there is something time needs to be wasted on) then time should also be spent trying to make modern baseball possible.

edit: Actually I'm going to take that back, you can't even accurately simulate MLB history with the current financial system unless you really micromanage. Otherwise you just settle with the limitation OOTP places on you by having a financial system an 8 year old could have dreamed up and implemented.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

The development system is more than just go out and play boys. I am not sure exactly what is done in the system but there is an element beyond coaching and just playing games on the official minor league schedule. My hunch is most of this stuff is instructional leagues to help guys get on track and bring new draftees who missed most of the short season up to speed as well as training of low minors guys who only play 3 months a year.

I refer everyone back to the figures given in post#30, which was the real breakdown of player development expenses for the Texas Rangers in 2008, as listed in the leaked financial documents of last summer.

In general terms, roughly one-sixth of the player development costs were administrative (primarily workers compensation and insurance); one-quarter was what could be termed as directly helping players improve (roving instructors, minor league spring training, and rehab camp); the remainder was operating the minor league farm clubs, including instructional leagues (but excluding the Dominican operations; the latter were categorized as scouting expenses by the Rangers).

[Pineapple]

I am a little lukewarm on the new player development budget. I will need to see it in action before I decide how I like it.

But from the description of it so far, I have yet to understand the need for this feature. We already have a similar feature with the usage of coaches. This player development budget just seems like a money/budget sink gimmick to me.

As another poster mentioned, I think it would be more interesting if you allow users to have more control over the player development than merely set a budget percentage. Allow the user to select facets of the player development to focus on such as base running, bunting, defense, etc.

I never liked the idea of simply adding a slider that gives you the choice of how much money you want to pump into it. I find that not very challenging or rewarding. I like features that forces me to make a decision based on risk/reward and tradeoffs. Obviously, not every decision involves tradeoffs but I like it when I have to think rather than just mindlessly change the percentage of a sliding bar.

According to Markus, the effect will be very small. If so, what's the point then? It's just a way to burn cash? That just reminds me of MMORPG's creating money and time sinks just for the heck of it.

I rather see other player development features rather than just a sliding bar. For example, I rather see the addition of veteran mentors added to the game. This might give me a reason to add a declining veteran to my organization in hopes of him mentoring the young kids.

I rather see former high schoolers possibly add an inch or two or put on some weight as they mature. This would make the draft more fun. Maybe that high school SS may eventually become too big and have to be moved to 3B.

From an online league point of view, I really dislike using money as a way to try to out-strategize my fellow human opponents. Even though money - or rather the disparity of it - is a very real and significant part of real-life baseball, I don't find money sinks in online leagues too rewarding. All I do is try to spend my excess money in scouting or hiring the best coaches. I find it more rewarding focusing on other aspects such as drafting the right players, properly developing them, or making quality trades. These aspects don't involve money. It involves thinking. So, I'm always more interested to see if the game finds ways to improve these aspects such as improving the player developmental model, injury model, aging model, personality affects, etc. It is these type of features that make me think rather than just check if I have the money or not.

I have more fun asking myself, "Should I take a risk on signing this 37-year old pitcher who recently just came off a torn labrum injury last season?" as opposed to - "Should I spend $1.5 million or $4.5 million in player development?"

[SteveV]

Originally Posted by mm7607

I don't want to play 'the business' I want to play 'the game'. The way the game is progressing now eventually its going to so full of financial crap the game itself is going to be lost in the shuffle.

But thats just Strat o Matic or Diamond Mind surely? If you just want 'the game' why not play The Show or MLB 2K11? OOTP is promoted as The Most Realistic Baseball Simulation On The Market..how can it justify that tag if the whole business side of the sport is ignored?

[Carplos]

I rather see other player development features rather than just a sliding bar. For example, I rather see the addition of veteran mentors added to the game. This might give me a reason to add a declining veteran to my organization in hopes of him mentoring the young kids.

In addition to VETERAN PRESENCE, let's also add CLUTCH, GRIT and SCRAPPINESS.

[Pineapple]

Originally Posted by Carplos

In addition to VETERAN PRESENCE, let's also add CLUTCH, GRIT and SCRAPPINESS.

I don't see anything wrong with adding mentors if it was done in good taste. The game already has features that we don't know how to quantify in real life.

How much does the leadership trait affect OOTP or real life? What about work ethic? How much improvement can someone gain from working hard? How do you quantify that? If you can't quantify it in real life then how does OOTP model it?

What about coaching? How much did Dave Righetti help Tim Lincecum? How much of an impact did Ron Washington had in helping the Rangers get to the World Series? What about OOTP coaches?

How come certain young players respond better by being thrown in the fire; while other youngsters respond better by sitting and watching? Which players like to be challenged while others babied?

How does unhappiness and morale affect performance? How much of a performance hit does a player get from being unhappy?

We don't have answers to this yet OOTP models it.