Wife and kids coming back!

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

*lol*

I got Markus to LOL, my life is complete.

[kckid4u]

Fellas, personally, I don't think this thread was that big a deal. A guy said he would like to have this feature back and some replied saying they felt other things were more important or that that idea gave them "less than zero interest." I never saw the original poster say he got his feelings hurt by the replies.

Really the only problems with the thread came when some tried to dictate how and what people should say when replying to someones suggestion. It's my opinion people should just post what they want and how they feel. We are all adults here. If you get your feelings hurt over something like a game forum, maybe you shouldn't be posting in it. Again, this is just my opinion.

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, as important as it seems to be for some for someone to be able to post their suggestion, it is equally important for people to be able to voice their "un-interest" in the idea so Markus can wage the overall interest of the community to the idea. Otherwise we'd really have some pretty outrageous ideas in the game, like switch pitchers. (I mean really? One guy can do it in real life so it should become a feature in the game? Really?) Now, was that so bad a response to the switch pitcher idea? I'm sure Crymaniac can handle it.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

This is true, but a really awful idea is still a really awful idea and will always draw flak.

Well yes, but I think the point was that the criticism should be more civil. I make no comment on that point, because I tend to deal with it better than some others do.

Originally Posted by kckid4u

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, as important as it seems to be for some for someone to be able to post their suggestion, it is equally important for people to be able to voice their "un-interest" in the idea so Markus can wage the overall interest of the community to the idea. Otherwise we'd really have some pretty outrageous ideas in the game, like switch pitchers. (I mean really? One guy can do it in real life so it should become a feature in the game? Really?) Now, was that so bad a response to the switch pitcher idea? I'm sure Crymaniac can handle it.

I'd handle it better if you spelled my username properly Of course it doesn't help that I have an odd username.

[fintach]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Of course it doesn't help that I have an odd username.

So you like to freeze things. What's so odd about that? There was a point in the '80s when my parents were dehydrating anything that came into the kitchen. We had so many jars of dehydrated fruits and vegetables that the cabinets looked like something out of an alchemist's lab. I started worrying about the cat.

[RandyTiger]

Originally Posted by fintach

So you like to freeze things. What's so odd about that? There was a point in the '80s when my parents were dehydrating anything that came into the kitchen. We had so many jars of dehydrated fruits and vegetables that the cabinets looked like something out of an alchemist's lab. I started worrying about the cat.

Is that what the hunk of mystery meat was?

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by fintach

So you like to freeze things. What's so odd about that?

Well, actually the username is ironic (I'm somewhat of a pryomaniac, or was as a teenager), but yes, that is what it means.

[Charlie Hough]

I support adding this feature as long as the wife can go on the 60-day DL with a miscarriage.

Also, husbands should occasionally go on the 15-day DL due to a 'nagging' injury.



For those offended by any of these jokes, tough luck. Try living in North Korea.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by fintach

So you like to freeze things. What's so odd about that? There was a point in the '80s when my parents were dehydrating anything that came into the kitchen. We had so many jars of dehydrated fruits and vegetables that the cabinets looked like something out of an alchemist's lab. I started worrying about the cat.

Are you the only surviving child?

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by RchW

Are you the only surviving child?

[1998 Yankees]

Gosh, this thread is weird. If there were a wife and kids in my game, I'd want to give them a virtual hug.

"Don't worry, guys. These weird people cannot touch you! They'll go away soon."

[hugs and kisses laptop screen]

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I'd handle it better if you spelled my username properly Of course it doesn't help that I have an odd username.

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Well, actually the username is ironic (I'm somewhat of a pryomaniac, or was as a teenager), but yes, that is what it means.

So, a pryomaniac. That's someone who can't stare at a bottle cap without opening it? Can't let secrets alone? Closed doors cause unnatural need to locate a crowbar? Yeah, those odd usernames. They haunt you.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Well yes, but I think the point was that the criticism should be more civil.

Generally "be more civil" translates to "shut up."

[PSUColonel]

I wish this thread would go away

[CD1083]

More civil means not a dick. If someone is unable to meet that, than yes it means shut up.

^^^^^

[Muzamba]

Note: Even though I'm quoting The Wolf here, this post is directed to everyone.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Generally "be more civil" translates to "shut up."

I don't think it means that at all. This would imply that some people aren't capable of being civil, so their only other option is to not say anything. That sounds like, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

I personally don't see what's so hard about being polite and offering constructive criticism. Unlike some people, I value everyone's opinion, even if their opinion is counter to my own. It's not always WHAT people say that's the problem, but how they say it. What if everytime you made a suggestion, several people chimed in with "That's a stupid idea. I hope Markus doesn't waste his time on that"? It's generally more productive to take the time to fully comprehend an idea and discuss alternatives than to just dismisses it outright. That's one of the problems with our society today; We don't value creativity and ingenuity. We're too impatient to engage in any real brainstorming. Instead, we prefer to just shoot down ideas right out of the box. And all that does is stifle progress and innovation.

I guess I've just seen so many forums on the internet turn into cesspools of name-calling and ugly rhetoric over the past several years. I long for the days when people could have - here's that word again - civil discussions without feeling the need to put people down just because they don't agree with them. I'm not saying that's where the OOTP forum is headed by any means. (Compared to some forums, this place is a freakin' love-in.) I just don't think having an extra little bit of forum decorum is such a bad thing.

Anyway, I've spent too much time "defending" the original idea of this thread. As I've stated before, I don't personally have any interest in the old version of the "wife and kids" feature returning. This is more about people - especially newer members of the OOTP community - feeling comfortable sharing their ideas in general.

However, since I have been composing literally hundreds of storylines for OOTP 12, I'm unfortunately already preparing for the rash of negative comments that are bound to be posted about this storyline or that storyline. (And yes, there are some that involve events that take place off the playing field, which means there may be some mention of... wives and/or children. ) But rest assured, my composition of such articles is not taking any more than a few minutes away from the countless hours I'm spending working on other aspects of the game that I'm sure many - dare I say MOST - of you will actually enjoy.

(Then again, if storylines burden you with a little too much reality, keep in mind you always have the option of deleting certain storylines from the database, or disabling storylines altogether. )

And so, in the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

[Tony M]

This could be a good idea. However, it needs to take a back seat to all the other changes that are coming in 12. Expecting the beta testers to make sure that relationships don't have an overbearing effect on stats is too much work.

When the base ai is all settled then maybe we should concentrate on this extreme immersion feature. Otherwise the game will end up being a bit like a role-playing one where the subtext becomes more important. Lots of players probably have children, divorces, marriages, etc but I can't imagine it has much of an effect on their stats. Finding these traits would probably even tax ronco and injury log who are adept at finding patterns.

If the game gets families there should be no problem getting advanced playoffs into it as it's black and white in how it works and can be much easier tested. Somehow though this view probably won't wash much with Markus. Despite this if families do work and don't affect the gameplay just the demographics then it's something that could be lived with.

[Muzamba]

Originally Posted by Tony M

This could be a good idea. However, it needs to take a back seat to all the other changes that are coming in 12. Expecting the beta testers to make sure that relationships don't have an overbearing effect on stats is too much work.

When the base ai is all settled then maybe we should concentrate on this extreme immersion feature. Otherwise the game will end up being a bit like a role-playing one where the subtext becomes more important. Lots of players probably have children, divorces, marriages, etc but I can't imagine it has much of an effect on their stats. Finding these traits would probably even tax ronco and injury log who are adept at finding patterns.

If the game gets families there should be no problem getting advanced playoffs into it as it's black and white in how it works and can be much easier tested. Somehow though this view probably won't wash much with Markus. Despite this if families do work and don't affect the gameplay just the demographics then it's something that could be lived with.

FWIW, none of the new storylines I've added that mention family members have any real effect on the game, other than a player missing a few days and/or very slightly raising or lowering his morale. (And since players already miss time for bereavement when injuries are enabled, this really doesn't involve adding anything new.) They're mainly just there to enhance news stories, and most of these stories don't even result in any changes within the game whatsoever.

I agree that there's really no way to measure whether, or to what degree, a player's stats are affected by what's happening in his life away from the field. Therefore, I don't anticipate reflecting this in storylines, either.

So the bottom line is, people shouldn't worry too much about this. If anything, I think this will be a "best of both worlds" addition to the game. In other words, it's a simple and realistic way of having players' wives, kids, girlfriends, mothers-in-law, dogs, tax accountants, or whoever, make an appearance without turning OOTP into a cheesy role-playing game or taking up precious coding/testing time.

However, this does bring up an interesting point that I hadn't considered before. I'm guessing storylines in general wouldn't be very welcome with historical simulators. So that's probably something those of us working on this feature should take a closer look at. Perhaps when starting a new historical league, storylines should be disabled by default, or maybe there should be an alternate database that doesn't contain any results - just stories. Or maybe not?

Anyway, maybe this could be a good segue into a more positive and productive discussion on incorporating storylines into OOTP without negatively impacting gameplay.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Cryomaniac]

On the subject of storylines, will a list of valid tokens and stuff be posted sometime just before or after release to allow for modding of the storyline database?

[PSUColonel]

I love the idea of story lines as long as they are related to baseball. I don't mind off the field stuff that are related to players' within the game, but please, no cheezy roleplaying wife and kids stuff. I could never see FM implementing anything like this.

[Muzamba]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

On the subject of storylines, will a list of valid tokens and stuff be posted sometime just before or after release to allow for modding of the storyline database?

I'm sure it will be (There might even be a list added to the manual), but if one hasn't been posted after the game is released, I promise to personally post it myself.