My first day impression: the interface still sucks

[Neags23]

I personally don't have a problem with the HTML pages per se (I actually kind of like them), but I do wish we could stick with one or the other. The only reason I ever go to a player's SION page is to be able to right-click to get to his profile page. That bit of navigation is slightly clumsy, IMHO.

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Just a follow up to my post,

The reason OOTP 6.5/6/5/4 ect ect... were so fun was because you could rapidly to from screen to screen, player to player and do research. It was easy to get into a rhythm. The ratings were displayed in an easy place, stats were easy to see, age/position/ratings were all easy to see

With OOTP 2007 its not. Everything requires scrolling, clicking on screens, and often times, delays (because of clicking, mouse pointers, switching HTML and in-game). Just like anybody who has ever had to do prep work or data input, its horrible untill you hit rhytm, then you hardly notice it.

With 2007 you switch from HTML to in-game, ruining rhythm. Too see stats you need to scroll. To see a contract you need to click. You can't go team to team looking at stats, it requires you to set a filter on each team every time.

The main problem is the PROMINENT information isn't displayed in a PROMINENT. I click on a player in 6.5 and I get his ratings, this years stats and his contract info on the first try. This year, I get his ratings, and then have to scroll and click for the rest. That means sorting through a teams roster looking for a guy I want to trade for takes longer, and becomes work.

I agree completely with this. Not is the most important informtaion NOT being displayed prominently but it is usually cluttered with a lot of other information. More information is not always better but displaying important information in a clear and concise manner is better.

I really don't have a problem with any of the new features or even the many added buttons and options - just how that information is being presented.

Here's a good example. Printout a team's Roster Report from v5/6. Great summary for dynasties and online reports. Now similar reports are unprintable and needlessly cluttered. One of Markus' strengths in the past has been all of those great, easy to read html screens and reports. Now they look like someone threw in the kitchen sink.

[Mattymo]

Originally Posted by sfgiants88

LOL, really? How about you re-read this thread: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ight=excellent

or this one: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ight=excellent

You're bemoaning the complainers, but you are complaining yourself?

Oh c'mon, don't take things so literal. It's safe to say that most of the posts (especially in THIS thread) are complaints.

[enuttage]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Here it is..

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...18#post2116718


post #34

Thanks, Sweed. A little more vague and hyperbolic than I remembered (I'm the king of these things, so I'm not surprised), but still a starting point for who/how to convince anyone to change/remove the internal HTML system.

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by Neags23

I personally don't have a problem with the HTML pages per se (I actually kind of like them), but I do wish we could stick with one or the other. The only reason I ever go to a player's SION page is to be able to right-click to get to his profile page. That bit of navigation is slightly clumsy, IMHO.

Yeah, IMO player SION pages should be abolished.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Elendil

Yeah, IMO player SION pages should be abolished.

IMO everything with SION on it needs to be cleaned up and the SION crap removed.

[Sven Draconian]

http://www.invitationonlysports.com/...layer_654.html

Lets look at this page. Name, age, position, ratings, potential, contract, all good.

What are his stats for this season?
Scroll past his past 10 games.
Alright, now I find them after scrolling (highly annoying for a no talent league). Err, why are stolen bases hidden on the 2nd line?

Why is it that the career batting stat line has all the information on one line, yet his regular batting line has tavg and ISO, both secondary stats, on it with SBs jumbled on the 2nd line?

Why coudln't they fit this years stat line above the player ratings, or squeeze them in somewhere else? Instead I have to scroll down a few clicks and find them.

Is this issue alone a big deal, no. However, there are numerous similar instances to this. Alone its nothing but a minor something you get used to, when we start to add them all up, it gets labeled "clunky".

Are a lot of the issues with the game stubborness for the old interface, well yea partly. Of course, we don't understand why the interface was changed so much. Is there more information in this version of the game, yes, but that could all be displayed in the sub windows (where you click on player stats, contract info and such).

I want a few simple things to make things easier for me. I want my lineup screen to display batting stats. I want my rotation displaying pitching stats. I want my player screens to have Name/Age/Stats/Ratings/Position on it.

OOTP 2007 requires scrolling and clicking to get basic, important information. This means simple operations, such as setting a lineup, is more difficult than it needs to be. It means trying to work a trade and gettin salaries to match up is double the time because I need to go to extra screens, or I need to scroll to see stats.

I've already said I love OOTP 2007 and its a great game. The new information, history and more accurate engine are all great. However, the interface still needs work. Take this for whining or nit-picking, but if all they get is "Its perfect" or "It sucks" with nothing specific, the game stagnates and turns into Madden.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

http://www.invitationonlysports.com/...layer_654.html

Looking at that page, here's the first thing which came to my mind:

There's an awful lot of wasted horizontal space in both the "Batting Ratings" and "Last 10 games" sections. I bet these sections could be reworked so that each only takes up half the horizontal space they do at the moment. If so, then both of these could be fitted side-by-side, and that would cut down on the scrolling.

The second thing I note is that there is a bit of wasted horizontal space outside the report area. There's not a lot of the background showing at the left and right sides, but there's some. If the report could be widened, that would allow more columns to be added to the statistical areas.

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Why is it that the career batting stat line has all the information on one line, yet his regular batting line has tavg and ISO, both secondary stats, on it with SBs jumbled on the 2nd line?

The career batting totals at the bottom contain a total of 20 data categories; the overall batting totals for the 2007 season nearer the top contains 32 categories. So which categories are you willing to give up in the overall 2007 totals listing?

Personally, I do think the career total categories should match the season overall 2007 totals categories. It does look a bit odd to me to see different categories for each area. But of course unifying the two areas means dropping some stats categories, which opens up the question of which stats should stay and which should go, or alternatively, be put further down the page.

[CaLíKrAzY]

Originally Posted by Go Tribe

My thoughts for whatever they are worth....

It's more complicated to make in game changes than it has to be (i only play broadcast view so i'm referring to that view only).

my suggestion: if you want to pinch hit, have the user right click on the batter to bring up the list of BATTERS ONLY with batting ratings already listed. if you want to pinch run, right click on the runner to bring up the list of BATTERS ONLY with base running ratings already listed. if you want to go to the bullpen, same thing. left clicking would still show the player's card.
or put pinch hit, pinch run and bullpen on the list of options (with swing away, pitch, steal, etc) and have context sensitive screens come up.

for the main screens, i think having menu's across the bottom isn't as intuitive as having it across the top like most microsoft applications. make it like IE where you have the icons AND the mouse over text menus. better yet, if you disagree with me, allow the user to choose top or bottom (or left or right for that matter) for the location of their icon menu

i like the sidebar option someone else posted in another thread

allow the user to click on the word manager across the top to go right to the manager home page without having to wait for the dropdown to appear

Excellent suggestion.

I also would like to see contracts on the front of player cards.

Seriously though less clicks the better...

[Ksyrup]

The other thing that is maddening is how much scrolling we have to do. On someone's suggestion here that they simmed games from their team's schedule page, I tried that. And it works nicely for the first half of the month...until you get to the point where the games are not on the screen. Then, every game you sim, you have to separately scroll down to see the result. So if I want to sim game-by-game, the page resets every time and I have to scroll back down to get to the boxscore. I couldn't take it after like 4 games. I don't see how anyone can like doing that.

[bp_]

Originally Posted by CaLíKrAzY

Seriously though less clicks the better...

"

[jaxmagicman]

I know this was said a lot last year, but adding bookmarks really makes the interface so much easier. As does the Previous Visisted Tabs.

[Sven Draconian]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Looking at that page, here's the first thing which came to my mind:

There's an awful lot of wasted horizontal space in both the "Batting Ratings" and "Last 10 games" sections. I bet these sections could be reworked so that each only takes up half the horizontal space they do at the moment. If so, then both of these could be fitted side-by-side, and that would cut down on the scrolling.

The second thing I note is that there is a bit of wasted horizontal space outside the report area. There's not a lot of the background showing at the left and right sides, but there's some. If the report could be widened, that would allow more columns to be added to the statistical areas.

The career batting totals at the bottom contain a total of 20 data categories; the overall batting totals for the 2007 season nearer the top contains 32 categories. So which categories are you willing to give up in the overall 2007 totals listing?

Personally, I do think the career total categories should match the season overall 2007 totals categories. It does look a bit odd to me to see different categories for each area. But of course unifying the two areas means dropping some stats categories, which opens up the question of which stats should stay and which should go, or alternatively, be put further down the page.

You don't need to delete the additional yearly statistics. Just move SB and CS up too the first line of the yearly stats, and ISO and tavg down to the second. All the information remains, but it gives yearly and career statistics a uniform loook, and gives you the secondary stats as well. Its the blending of the "new" information and the "old" information that makes the screens unneccesarily awkward looking.

Lets look at a v.6 page. In an online league, you click on a team and this is the screen you get:
http://fszcentral.com/athfbl/

It has stats, positions and ages displayed immediately. You go to an OOTP 2007 league and you get....
http://www.invitationonlysports.com/...s/team_35.html

In a way I do like the new pages more, as they seem more real to me (like something I would actually find online...actually isn't that the exact page ESPN uses for teams?) in the other, well this is a game and looking at a player going 5-5 is not the most important thing to me.

My suggestion would be merge them. Keep the news on the page, but in the upper right hand corner only (Where is says news already), put the roster with stats back in the middle of the page. Is this a big issue, no, but when trying to look at a team online, the extra click to get to "Batting Statistics" and then two more to switch to "Pitching Statistics" add up.

Is this going to make me stop playing the game? No, because the game itself is still very good with a lot of information you can't get anywhere else. However, its just another example of how the interface is lacking.

[Mattingly06]

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Just a follow up to my post,

The reason OOTP 6.5/6/5/4 ect ect... were so fun was because you could rapidly to from screen to screen, player to player and do research. It was easy to get into a rhythm. The ratings were displayed in an easy place, stats were easy to see, age/position/ratings were all easy to see

With OOTP 2007 its not. Everything requires scrolling, clicking on screens, and often times, delays (because of clicking, mouse pointers, switching HTML and in-game). Just like anybody who has ever had to do prep work or data input, its horrible untill you hit rhytm, then you hardly notice it.

With 2007 you switch from HTML to in-game, ruining rhythm. Too see stats you need to scroll. To see a contract you need to click. You can't go team to team looking at stats, it requires you to set a filter on each team every time.

The main problem is the PROMINENT information isn't displayed in a PROMINENT. I click on a player in 6.5 and I get his ratings, this years stats and his contract info on the first try. This year, I get his ratings, and then have to scroll and click for the rest. That means sorting through a teams roster looking for a guy I want to trade for takes longer, and becomes work.

I totally agree with all of your posts Sven. Navigation is not an issue for me, the layout of information is. A few minor changes to the way information is displayed can go a long way reducing the amount of clicks and scrolls it takes to complete a task.

Displaying this year's salary on the player ratings page would reduce many clicks (for me at least) because salary is a big consideration when I trade. As you said, showing BA/OBP next to the players name in the lineups screen a la 6.5 would be helpful (maybe add SLG PCT since BA/OBP/SLG is becoming increasingly popular). Same thing with pitchers.

OOTP 6.5 showed me all of the basic info I needed to see to make a decision without any extra clicks or scrolls. 2007 requires a little more digging. Again, I want to make it clear that I love OOTP 2007. The meat and potatoes of the game (sim engine) is awesome, the bells and whistles (facegen) are awesoe, the interface (layout of info) is the only thing holding it back from becoming the game I always wanted. And to be honest the layout of info isn't all that bad, it just needs a few tweaks.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Lets look at a v.6 page. In an online league, you click on a team and this is the screen you get:

http://fszcentral.com/athfbl/

It has stats, positions and ages displayed immediately. You go to an OOTP 2007 league and you get....

http://www.invitationonlysports.com/...s/team_35.html

Strictly speaking, you're not comparing the same thing there. The first item is the home page for the league as a whole, the second item is the home page for a specific team. You ought to be comparing the league home page from OOTP2007 to that OOTP6.5 page example.

[Sven Draconian]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Strictly speaking, you're not comparing the same thing there. The first item is the home page for the league as a whole, the second item is the home page for a specific team. You ought to be comparing the league home page from OOTP2007 to that OOTP6.5 page example.

Oops, I tought I had clicked on a team page and linked it. Just click on one of those team pages and you will see my point though.

[Anrhydeddu]

Sven, nice post. Believe it or not, that was the one of the first screens I looked for in the version and I couldn't believe what I saw (esp. after not even seeing v2006). I like many of the new features in v2007 but I don't like many of the screens and reports when compared to v5/6. I don't know if that's a UI issue or simply a formating issue.

[drprestwood]

The interface and the problems quickly finding what I need and moving from one screen to the next...these are the reasons I haven't purchased OOTP 2007. I bought OOTP3, OOTP4, OOTP5, OOTP6, OOTP6.5, and unfortunately, OOTP 2006. I'm a pretty loyal customer.

Maybe I'm spoiled by the 6.5 interface that makes a lot of sense and is easy to navigate, but I still find it too hard to jet around in 2007.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by drprestwood

The interface and the problems quickly finding what I need and moving from one screen to the next...these are the reasons I haven't purchased OOTP 2007. I bought OOTP3, OOTP4, OOTP5, OOTP6, OOTP6.5, and unfortunately, OOTP 2006. I'm a pretty loyal customer.

Maybe I'm spoiled by the 6.5 interface that makes a lot of sense and is easy to navigate, but I still find it too hard to jet around in 2007.

We cant tempt you over?

[APujols5]

Sure the interface was a bit easier and the learning curve was easier in 6.5 but at the same time 6.5 was no better than Baseball Mogul... So thank god for the changes made