opinion on the future of OOTP

[thehatfield]

Thanks BC - just was having trouble getting my head around the entire problem. I think much of that has to do with being a "release-time only" member of the community until this year so I've missed a lot of the squabbles, suggestions, and suggestions on top of suggestions!

I also wonder if having been a previous supporter of SI's Football Manager (and Championship Manager prior to that) helped with my relatively easier transition to 2006? I dunno, especially since as has been mentioned those games are much more rigid in terms of gameplay the only "advantage" I think I had was familiarity with the interface.

[PSUColonel]

We would like to see those players because part of being a Gm is taking chances on players, promoting them, demoting them, being surprised by the late round pick who actaully amounted to something. That's why.

I think minor league roster limits would help, provided there is not an overwheliming amount of talent in the player pool. Sometimes I feel like that in the current version. Players who are the best at their position should only be between 75-85 or so out of 100. Sure fire Hall of famers in the 90's. Excellent players in the 70's, very good players in the 60's. Very solid satarters in the 50's, average players in the 40's well you get the point. Players in the 80's should be nearly impossible to get. 70's very very hard., 60's hard, 50's and so on. Right now I feel it's easy to get players with great potential.

[mikev]

Online leagues are going to need much, much more consideration.

Specifics such as "Grammatical errors in PbP text" or having a whole entire forum dedicated strictly to what people want to see when a player hits a grounder to the hole is fine, but there are entire factions of players who don't care about that. They want the basics of the game to work properly, and they want signifigant beta testing, and good tech support.

[ACibella]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

We would like to see those players because part of being a Gm is taking chances on players, promoting them, demoting them, being surprised by the late round pick who actaully amounted to something. That's why.

For what it's worth, major league GM's don't have anything to do with promoting minor league players with the exception of AAA to the majors. At best maybe an assistant GM would handle this, more than likely it's a few more rungs down the line. There are literally players in organizations that the major league GM doesn't know exist.

On a side note, I've been playing since ootp3, and I love 06. I hated it the first two weeks I had it, and briefly went back to 6.51, but 6.51 wasn't the end all for me. That said, since was 06 was the present and 06+ was the future, I went back to 06. After feeling like I was at a job for awhile it got better. Now I wouldn't trade 06 for any past version. The depth of histories, both team and league alone is worth it. Lastly, as Eugene Church posted.... these discussions aren't bad in and of themself, but it's important to keep perspective on what we're talking about, and talk about it in a courteous and respectful manner.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by ACibella

For what it's worth, major league GM's don't have anything to do with promoting minor league players with the exception of AAA to the majors. At best maybe an assistant GM would handle this, more than likely it's a few more rungs down the line. There are literally players in organizations that the major league GM doesn't know exist.

I would say that the major league GM's are a pretty large part in the decisions about any major prospects the team has. You are right that he doesn't make the majority of the decisions when it comes to moving players around. Most teams have a position that oversees all of the minor leagues (I'm not sure exactly what they call it, Minor League Director or something), he would be the one to make most of these decisions.

[mrbill]

Well, I used to post a lot, but v6.5 is done, so I have nothing left to say

I don't know how many licenses went to people who played primarily online leagues, but I know when OOTP 2006 came out, I was in 4 leagues. One was v5, still is... two are still v6, and one is gone. No one is really clamoring for 2006 in any of those leagues. In fact, no one even really says they play it, they're keeping real quiet if they do, as no one defended it during the usual "should we convert" threads.

I really enjoyed talking about the game model, why Movement is a mostly stupid rating, how stats got generated, what the ratings meant, how the engine was evolving. But, most threads have little analysis like that, probably because Movement is still a stupid rating

When the OOTP 2006 online league forum is half as active as the v6 forum, there's a lot of work left for 2007, or the future of OOTP surely is different than its past.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by mrbill

Well, I used to post a lot, but v6.5 is done, so I have nothing left to say

I don't know how many licenses went to people who played primarily online leagues, but I know when OOTP 2006 came out, I was in 4 leagues. One was v5, still is... two are still v6, and one is gone. No one is really clamoring for 2006 in any of those leagues. In fact, no one even really says they play it, they're keeping real quiet if they do, as no one defended it during the usual "should we convert" threads.

I really enjoyed talking about the game model, why Movement is a mostly stupid rating, how stats got generated, what the ratings meant, how the engine was evolving. But, most threads have little analysis like that, probably because Movement is still a stupid rating

When the OOTP 2006 online league forum is half as active as the v6 forum, there's a lot of work left for 2007, or the future of OOTP surely is different than its past.

Hiya, Mr. Bill...

The entire pitching model still needs to be revamped to one where the individual pitches a guy has actually make a difference, but that's another tirade all to itself. The V2006 game engine is demonstratably better than v5 or v6s in several fashions, but it's still got a way to go. Hitters eye and overall player speed is improved. GB% being having an influence on HR is an improvement. Platoon splits got a nudge in the right direction. I'm hoping to see more in V2007.

The really good, long-term online leagues are very conservative in nature, though. They realize that their existence is based on maintaining a stable environment, hence all change is inherently suspect. V2006 is a major change, and a major change that has not proven stability with regard to the conversion process, the financial AI, and all the basic gameplay features. I am actually a proponent of my online league converting (though we won't at this point unless OOTP V2007 is solid), but I'm a proponent because my league does all its finances outside the game, hence any issues in that aspect are not meaningful for us. This means that all we really care about is the game engine, which is better, and the development engine, which is perhaps better than v6 in some aspects and less-good in others.

Anyway...there's a few rambling comments.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by andymac

I would say that the major league GM's are a pretty large part in the decisions about any major prospects the team has. You are right that he doesn't make the majority of the decisions when it comes to moving players around. Most teams have a position that oversees all of the minor leagues (I'm not sure exactly what they call it, Minor League Director or something), he would be the one to make most of these decisions.

Here is a game suggestion: Incorporate a assistant GM, who will take care of promoting and demoting within the minor leagues, but any move he makes must be OK'd by you(the GM). A notice in your mail box could state that the assistant GM would like to promote/demote a player, and you must ok or deny it. Of course it could also be handled by the assistant GM simply giving a reccomendation as well. The only problem I have with this potentially, is that I don't want it to simply be window dressing(as many of Markus' new features have been over the years) and would like the AI to actually be viable.

[APujols5]

Originally Posted by BigCity

This d


All I ask is that you think about what your asking for when it comes to complexity. Sometimes, less is more.

Couldn't disagree more... There's so many key features the game is still missing.

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

what SI needs to do, is get a working model of modern day MLB baseball as a "core" of the game first. Then perhaps you can expand with other things such as historical play and the like. To continue adding option after option to a product that doesn't have a well oiled "core" yet is only going to cause more and more problems.

Well there's lots of options left to add if you want that... So you just contradicted yourself

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Here is a game suggestion: Incorporate a assistant GM, who will take care of promoting and demoting within the minor leagues, but any move he makes must be OK'd by you(the GM).

Not a bad suggestion as long as it's optional. Because I for one want full control over my team

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

what the hell is a hobbit?

A hobbit is a fictional creature invented by J.R.R. Tolkein circa 1930 for his novel "The Hobbit". They were intended to be allergorical equivalents of the British common man (particularly of the countryside) of his youth in the 1890s.

Their strike zone is about the size of a baseball, so their OBP should be out of this world, and they're noted for having excellent throwing arms — both strong and accurate. They don't have much range, though, so you'd probably want to play them at first, third, maybe catcher or pitcher, possibly DH. And no power to speak of, so don't bat them in the heart of the order.

They come in three principal varieties — Harfoot, Stoor and Fallowhide. The Fallowhides are big enough that you might mistake them for ball boys, but the others are so small they could never be anything but Hobbits. They tend to have long careers, not starting their physical decline until after age fifty (at which point they might just get up and walk out on you without giving much notice). Oh, and when you negotiate salaries, don't let them talk you into paying extra for meal money. Hobbits believe in five square meals a day, when they can get them. On the other hand, you might be able to make it up on hotel fees, since they're quite happy to sleep four or more to a room. You'd never get them to put up with a smoke-free clubhouse.

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I didn't realize I shouldn't expect to have fun until I've taken a long spiritual journey, after which only then can I realize that setting the lineups for my Gulf Coast League team where there isn't a player with a potential higher then 30 is the truly the highest form of entertainment.

Well, now that you realize it, what are you going to do? (Oops! He did it.)

Originally Posted by BigCity

This discussion never seems to end...

One more thing... somewhere we have to separate being a "REAL" GM with being a GM in OOTP. Sure, we could incorporate every nuance of a GM's true day into the game, but it would take years to learn - and would be more of a "job" than a game. I think what the best of all worlds is - is a GAME that "simulates" being a GM. A game that includes all the FUN parts of being a GM without adding the mundane stuff. In a true world GM job, you have hundreds of people working for you, taking care of the details you can't get to yourself.

This is what OOTP should do.

This is why I am one who gets a bit aggravated when more and more details are stacked onto the list of requests. Details that, yes, are a part of the baseball world, but it's like putting ONE MAN in charge of what is done by HUNDREDS in a real world scenario. What happens then is you build a "game" that truly isn't a "game".

All I ask is that you think about what your asking for when it comes to complexity. Sometimes, less is more.

One reason why this discussion never seems to end is because people keep starting new threads on the topic rather than unearthing one of the dozen or more older ones.

On your second point, I would like to remind you of the wild popularity of games like The Sims and Space Colony where the player has to keep track of the most boring details of their characters' lives. You have to tell each one of them when to eat, when to brush their teeth, take a bath, go to sleep… the list is endless, and in Space Colony you have to do it for four characters at a time. There are millions more people playing The Sims today than will play Out of the Park in its entire history. A lot of people love that kind of detail. You (and my best friend) aren't one of them. That's cool.

I agree with your last point the 'less can be more'. I think that 2007 should concentrate on getting 2006 right, and hold off on adding tons more options until 2008. On the other hand, I do want to see those tons more options SOMEDAY.

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Anyone who has taken the time to dive into 2006 knows the direction it is going, and that it is a god direction…

Please don't bring religion into this. How do you know it isn't a goddess direction?

Originally Posted by mikev

Online leagues are going to need much, much more consideration.

Specifics such as "Grammatical errors in PbP text" or having a whole entire forum dedicated strictly to what people want to see when a player hits a grounder to the hole is fine, but there are entire factions of players who don't care about that. They want the basics of the game to work properly, and they want significant beta testing, and good tech support.

I'm going to go my entire OotP career without playing the game online. Online is not one of the basics of the game. On the other hand, I have to look at that [insert perjorative adjective here] PbP text 186 times a season.

I do agree with your last sentence.

I want to thank PSUColonel for starting this thread. I have too many people in my life with cancer, and reading the first page gave me the best laugh I've had in weeks.

[andymac]

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Curtis again

.

[Curtis]

Now you've got me laughing again. Where's that quote from?

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

As I have pointed out before, one of the best indicators of the success of the direction of OOTP is the abandonment of a large number of people from this community. Back during 4 and 5 and 6, these boards were HOPPING no matter where in the release cycle you were. I think it hit a height right before the release of OOTP2006 and now, a year later, posts remain on the first page of the board despite not having any bumps for three or four days. No matter what you think of the game, 2006 polarized the boards. FWIW, I think thats a good indicator of how things stand.

Polarized! '06 is the George Bush of OOTP!

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Polarized! '06 is the George Bush of OOTP!

Fantastic to some. A failure to others.

[tcblcommish]

These threads are funny. Markus has always been one of the best game makers out there. As far as AI logic goes... you will never be able to make the AI perfect for everyone. People will always be upset with certain aspects of every game, no matter what game. Eastside Hockey Manager has loads of flaws in it's game right now and the message board is loaded with people who bash and make silly comments like the main one in this thread.

I enjoy the OOTP series and EHM series just as much although I have to admit I am a bigger fan of EHM because it's hockey but I have been with the OOTP series since the beginning and I have always loved it. One thing about the series is the amazing dedication from Markus et al with OOTP and I kno for a fact that every year things get better and better and I enjoy each season more. With Marc Duffy and Co. onboard now, things can only get better and better overall and the OOTP series is looking up.

Almost everything in this series has been an option so if there are things that you don't like, turn them off. As for the AI, just look at real life and realize that stupid things happen anyways and just get over it and enjoy the game.

sorry, just my

[mikev]

Originally Posted by Curtis

I'm going to go my entire OotP career without playing the game online. Online is not one of the basics of the game. On the other hand, I have to look at that [insert perjorative adjective here] PbP text 186 times a season.

You're just one person.

There are tons of online players. Enough for us to have our own little forum even.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by mikev

There are tons of online players. Enough for us to have our own little forum even.

True. I guess I'll just have to settle for the other eight. And by the way, simmers don't have to look at the PbP, either, so maybe nothing is really basic.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Curtis

True. I guess I'll just have to settle for the other eight. And by the way, simmers don't have to look at the PbP, either, so maybe nothing is really basic.

The only thing that is basic (influences all players) is the results engine.

[LeiterFanatic]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Polarized! '06 is the George Bush of OOTP!

How about a Red Version and a Blue Version of the game?

[Treches]

Originally Posted by BigCity

I've been around since 2001 (Ver.3) - and I can pretty much tell you that most of the folks that played OOTP3 aren't here any longer. Now, that's NOT because version 3 was better than following versions - it's because each of us (or most of us have lives beyond OOTP. Time changes those lives in many ways, and priorities change with it.

Long time since I last visited the forums.
I agree with Henry there. Time changes, priority changes, that made me pretty much forget about OOTP, except for one online league (V5) I'm in. Not high on the last iteration either, I must say. The game now requires much more time to be spent on it and, quite frankly, I'm not willing to give. Just wanted to point out a couple of things:

- About the eternal "no game is perfect": There are many, many steps between rawness and perfection.
- Online leagues: It might be of some interest to state that OOTP is still around, 7 years after the first version, thanks in no small part to the existance of those leagues, who spread the word when only a few knew about this game (which is sold online, for that matter). Should be wise to really have that in mind when creating a new version of OOTP. At least once.

Anyway, lots of luck to Markus and Co. I'm sure that the next version will be way better than this one. The foundations are there and he'll have more time to polish things out this year. However, this new OOTP is no longer a game for me. No fun in having a second job even to set a league and play online.