2006 New York Mets - Page 4

darkhorse · 04-08-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slackker

"Underachieving" means a lack of effort? Since when?

No, I said it implies that. Do you think of underachievers as maximum effort types?

underachieve

v : perform less well or with less success than expected; "John consistently underachieves, although he is very able"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slackker

Of course then there's the ones like me who don't think he's capable of putting together the kind of year that most other fans expect. Or even close.

If most other fans think Beltran is capable of an MVP quality season, they are correct. He had one in 2004.

PotatoPeeler · 04-08-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

If most other fans think Beltran is capable of an MVP quality season, they are correct. He had one in 2004.

He had an MVP quality post-season in 2004. I don't know if I'd call his regular season worthy of an MVP, however.

darkhorse · 04-08-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

He had an MVP quality post-season in 2004. I don't know if I'd call his regular season worthy of an MVP, however.

Hmmm.........let's see.

159 games, 599 at bats, 36 2B, 9 3B, 38 HR, 121 runs, 104 RBI, stole 42 of 45 bases successfully, walked 92 times, and had a .307 equivalent average with a good glove at a prime defensive position. WARP3 of 10.0 wins. ****ing great regular season irrespective of Carlos's postseason heroics.

GForce · 04-08-2006, 05:20 PM

If I ask Beltran, given that he's playing at Shea, to give me 25 HRs, 100 RBI, 30 SB and a very good if not great centerfield, I don't think I'm asking excessively of him, given what he's done previously. Hence, so far, he has underachieved.

I still believe he will succeed here. I don't fault people so much for being disappointed in last season as I do for them giving up on him completely before he's had a chance to show himself healthy.

GH

QuestGAV · 04-08-2006, 05:35 PM

Beltran underachieved in 2005 but if you don't think he's worth $10M you need your head examined. As dh noted, he was MVP quality in '04 throughout the whole year. The myth that his contract is based on a couple playoff series is absurd. A healthy Beltran is third only after Wright and Pedro in terms of importance to this team in finally putting the Braves' streak to rest.

Caporegime · 04-08-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Beltran underachieved in 2005 but if you don't think he's worth $10M you need your head examined. As dh noted, he was MVP quality in '04 throughout the whole year. The myth that his contract is based on a couple playoff series is absurd. A healthy Beltran is third only after Wright and Pedro in terms of importance to this team in finally putting the Braves' streak to rest.

Thanks for the medical advice. However...

I wrote that he wasn't worth the salary he earned last year (.266 16 78), which is difficult to argue with when you examine those numbers closely.

Maybe he'll be worthy of his contract in the future. However, bear in mind that his salary goes up exponentially from here. The $10m was only for the first year of his contract. This year and next year it will be $12m, until it finally reaches the lofty $20m+ range during the final few years of his 10-year contract.

If he's still posting numbers like he did last year when he reaches those salary heights, will you still believe he's worth that kind of money?

QuestGAV · 04-08-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caporegime

If he's still posting numbers like he did last year when he reaches those salary heights, will you still believe he's worth that kind of money?

I already said he underachieved. He had a bad year last year but there was nothing to suggest he would from the four years before that. Clearly, if he continues as he did last year he's underperforming the contract but he's not very likely to perform the same way going forward. You can't pay a guy based on what he does for you, only on what you think he will do for you. Minaya overpaid him, but that's not Beltran's fault and there's reason to believe that he will bounce back going forward to somewhere between his 2004 and 2005 production.

Melo · 04-08-2006, 08:29 PM

I'm not sure Beltran can ever be expected to live up his contract as far as todays dollars go. As the years go on, his contract will normalize and become more reasonable as it compares to other contracts in the future.

Beltran had a down year last year. He had an injury that really hampered him. To his credit, he never asked out of games because he felt like he owed to the club and his teammates to play. I give him a lot of credit.

I also want o clarify my "prick" comment above. That was meant for the fans who were out at Shea booing him in the very first game. I mean, give me a break, how is booing him supposed to help him? When I go to a game, I set aside any criticism I may have and I root for the team and the players, unless it's an obvious tank job, of course. I mean I'm there because I want to see them win so I'm going to encourage and not discourage.

Melo · 04-08-2006, 08:34 PM

And her Betran's contract. Lots of deferred money.

$11M signing bonus ($5M at signing 1/05, $2M 6/15/05, $2M 1/15/06, $2M 1/15/07)
05:$10M, 06:$12M, 07:$12M, 08:$18.5M, 09:$18.5M, 10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M
signed as a free agent 1/05
$22M deferred to 2012-18 (8 annual installments of $3,142,857 @ 1.7175% interest)
$8.5M deferred annually from 2008-2011

lencombs · 04-08-2006, 08:37 PM

Braves win like their 90th divisional pennant in a row anyway, silly Met's fans, it doesnt matter.

GForce · 04-08-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lencombs

Braves win like their 90th divisional pennant in a row anyway, silly Met's fans, it doesnt matter.

Somebody missed class the day they learned punctuation.

GH

potatoman · 04-09-2006, 01:02 PM

I want to watch these Mets games!

GForce · 04-09-2006, 06:08 PM

Nice job by the Mets in a 3-2 win today. Wagner comes in in a tie game and gets the win. Willis and Glavine duel well. Wright drives in all 3 of the Mets' runs, continuing to be outstanding. For all the talk of Pedro, Wright is the face of this team at this point.

Duaner Sanchez has been impressive. Him, Heilman and Wagner are a very nice late-inning crew.

4-1 on the year, and now off to Washington for what should an interesting series, particularly with Pedro pitching. Given the beanball battle at Shea, I expect Robinson will have the Nats ready to retaliate. Expect to Wright to get drilled at least once in the series.

GH

rudel.dietrich · 04-09-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Nice job by the Mets in a 3-2 win today. Wagner comes in in a tie game and gets the win. Willis and Glavine duel well. Wright drives in all 3 of the Mets' runs, continuing to be outstanding. For all the talk of Pedro, Wright is the face of this team at this point.

Duaner Sanchez has been impressive. Him, Heilman and Wagner are a very nice late-inning crew.

4-1 on the year, and now off to Washington for what should an interesting series, particularly with Pedro pitching. Given the beanball battle at Shea, I expect Robinson will have the Nats ready to retaliate. Expect to Wright to get drilled at least once in the series.

GH

One of MLBs winter goals was to crack down on beanball battles. I wonder what measures will be taken for the upcoming series.

GForce · 04-09-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

One of MLBs winter goals was to crack down on beanball battles. I wonder what measures will be taken for the upcoming series.

Robinson was livid, and I'm not sure Frank is going to care too much what MLB hands down. They didn't appear intentional, but at the same time, I can understand his feeling when he sees his guys get hit 6 times in a three game series.

Robinson was always for letting the players police themselves. My guess is he's going to encourage his guys to do exactly that.

GH

rudel.dietrich · 04-09-2006, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

Robinson was livid, and I'm not sure Frank is going to care too much what MLB hands down. They didn't appear intentional, but at the same time, I can understand his feeling when he sees his guys get hit 6 times in a three game series.

Robinson was always for letting the players police themselves. My guess is he's going to encourage his guys to do exactly that.

GH

I have met Mr. Robinson twice now and he does not look like someone you want to be on the bad side of.

GForce · 04-09-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

I have met Mr. Robinson twice now and he does not look like someone you want to be on the bad side of.

Pedro has to hit here in the NL...don't be shocked if Robinson has his pitcher put Pedro on his rear. Hell, it's what I would do.

GH

Melo · 04-11-2006, 12:52 PM

First pitch is upcoming. I think a Met gets plunked in the first inning.

Melo · 04-11-2006, 04:03 PM

Mets cop the win, 7-1. Bannister goes 7, allowing just a Soriano HR and just 3 hits in all. bannister also gets a single and double. Reyes hits a triple and Beltran hit a 2 run bomb. Heilman and Wags come in for some work and close it out. Heilman was lights out but Wags struggled with his control. Wags said he needed work and I guess he did, lol.

GForce · 04-11-2006, 05:14 PM

Stupid to use Wagner in a 7-1 game. Regardless of him saying he needed the work, you play 16 straight days. The guy just pitched Sunday. His spring was interrupted with that finger problem, and I understand that. But I just don't see the point in throwing him out there for 30 or so pitches in a meaningless game when you don't have a day off for two weeks.

Bannister looks good. He's smart...fell behind 8 guys 3-0 but didn't give in and didn't walk a batter. I'd feel better if I saw some more Ks out of him, though.

Beltran absolutely crushed one. Good to see.

Think the Nats are saving the beanball for Pedro.

5-1 and looking solid. But this has been the Marlins and Nats, not the stiffest of competition. But you try and dominate the poor teams and hold your own against the top teams. Mets problem in recent years has been playing to the level of their competition too much. They'll play well against good teams, then go and get swept by the Pirates, for example. So seeing them come up with a good record against the poor teams is hopefully a good sign.

GH

04-08-2006, 08:37 PM	#70
lencombs All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 535	Braves win like their 90th divisional pennant in a row anyway, silly Met's fans, it doesnt matter. __________________ "A passion for statistics is the earmark of a literate people." - Paul Fisher "Baseball isn't statistics. Baseball is (Joe) DiMaggio rounding second." - Jimmy Cannon

04-09-2006, 01:02 PM	#72
potatoman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,410 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I want to watch these Mets games! __________________ GFBL - Storm - 5 seasons - 500 - 310 New Jersey Nighthawks (1227-717) Last 5 seasons 2011: 118-44 2012: 100-62 2013: 111-51 2014: 106-56 2015: 108-54 OTBA Champions: 2008, 2010,2011

04-08-2006, 05:20 PM	#64
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	If I ask Beltran, given that he's playing at Shea, to give me 25 HRs, 100 RBI, 30 SB and a very good if not great centerfield, I don't think I'm asking excessively of him, given what he's done previously. Hence, so far, he has underachieved. I still believe he will succeed here. I don't fault people so much for being disappointed in last season as I do for them giving up on him completely before he's had a chance to show himself healthy. GH

04-08-2006, 05:35 PM	#65
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,010	Beltran underachieved in 2005 but if you don't think he's worth $10M you need your head examined. As dh noted, he was MVP quality in '04 throughout the whole year. The myth that his contract is based on a couple playoff series is absurd. A healthy Beltran is third only after Wright and Pedro in terms of importance to this team in finally putting the Braves' streak to rest.

04-08-2006, 08:29 PM	#68
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	I'm not sure Beltran can ever be expected to live up his contract as far as todays dollars go. As the years go on, his contract will normalize and become more reasonable as it compares to other contracts in the future. Beltran had a down year last year. He had an injury that really hampered him. To his credit, he never asked out of games because he felt like he owed to the club and his teammates to play. I give him a lot of credit. I also want o clarify my "prick" comment above. That was meant for the fans who were out at Shea booing him in the very first game. I mean, give me a break, how is booing him supposed to help him? When I go to a game, I set aside any criticism I may have and I root for the team and the players, unless it's an obvious tank job, of course. I mean I'm there because I want to see them win so I'm going to encourage and not discourage.

04-08-2006, 08:34 PM	#69
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	And her Betran's contract. Lots of deferred money. $11M signing bonus ($5M at signing 1/05, $2M 6/15/05, $2M 1/15/06, $2M 1/15/07) 05:$10M, 06:$12M, 07:$12M, 08:$18.5M, 09:$18.5M, 10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M signed as a free agent 1/05 $22M deferred to 2012-18 (8 annual installments of $3,142,857 @ 1.7175% interest) $8.5M deferred annually from 2008-2011

04-09-2006, 06:08 PM	#73
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Nice job by the Mets in a 3-2 win today. Wagner comes in in a tie game and gets the win. Willis and Glavine duel well. Wright drives in all 3 of the Mets' runs, continuing to be outstanding. For all the talk of Pedro, Wright is the face of this team at this point. Duaner Sanchez has been impressive. Him, Heilman and Wagner are a very nice late-inning crew. 4-1 on the year, and now off to Washington for what should an interesting series, particularly with Pedro pitching. Given the beanball battle at Shea, I expect Robinson will have the Nats ready to retaliate. Expect to Wright to get drilled at least once in the series. GH

04-11-2006, 12:52 PM	#78
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	First pitch is upcoming. I think a Met gets plunked in the first inning.

04-11-2006, 04:03 PM	#79
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	Mets cop the win, 7-1. Bannister goes 7, allowing just a Soriano HR and just 3 hits in all. bannister also gets a single and double. Reyes hits a triple and Beltran hit a 2 run bomb. Heilman and Wags come in for some work and close it out. Heilman was lights out but Wags struggled with his control. Wags said he needed work and I guess he did, lol.

04-11-2006, 05:14 PM	#80
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Stupid to use Wagner in a 7-1 game. Regardless of him saying he needed the work, you play 16 straight days. The guy just pitched Sunday. His spring was interrupted with that finger problem, and I understand that. But I just don't see the point in throwing him out there for 30 or so pitches in a meaningless game when you don't have a day off for two weeks. Bannister looks good. He's smart...fell behind 8 guys 3-0 but didn't give in and didn't walk a batter. I'd feel better if I saw some more Ks out of him, though. Beltran absolutely crushed one. Good to see. Think the Nats are saving the beanball for Pedro. 5-1 and looking solid. But this has been the Marlins and Nats, not the stiffest of competition. But you try and dominate the poor teams and hold your own against the top teams. Mets problem in recent years has been playing to the level of their competition too much. They'll play well against good teams, then go and get swept by the Pirates, for example. So seeing them come up with a good record against the poor teams is hopefully a good sign. GH