Koufax Debuted 50 Years Ago Today - Page 4

bulldog55 · 06-28-2005, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Value = winning games for this baseball fan.

Yes, that makes sense. Your implying WARP = winning games, which it doesn't. It gives you an estimation of the value of a particular player but it's not some end-all stat, and this is why I have no interest in sabermetrics.

Anyway, I've made my case and you've made yours. I've said why I think Koufax was more valuable and you've said why he's not, so there's not much left to say. Value is subjective, performance is not 100% measurable and the best part about baseball to me is subjective analysis, not boiling down players and careers to one or two numbers.

darkhorse · 06-28-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

So, rather than explain the error in my statement

(which was far from a dig, by the way, considering that I find you the most knowledgable poster in TS by some margin) you go the "roll eyes" route. Nice.

I thought I had with the caveats bolded in the post above. No performance analysis is absolute. 'Twould be silly to suggest so.

I guess a smiley would have been more appropriate, as I meant no offense. 'Tis difficult to convey tone over the keyboard.

Luis_Rivera · 06-28-2005, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldog55

It gives you an estimation of the value of a particular player but it's not some end-all stat, and this is why I have no interest in sabermetrics.

Sabermetrics isn't about finding an end-all stat. It's about developing several advanced statistics to be used in order to evaluate a player much more accurately than the old methods.

Luis_Rivera · 06-28-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

I thought I had with the caveats bolded in the post above. No performance analysis is absolute. 'Twould be silly to suggest so.

Fair enough... "absolute" is probably far too strong of a word.

Quote:

I guess a smiley would have been more appropriate, as I meant no offense. 'Tis difficult to convey tone over the keyboard.

Gotcha... not a problem.

darkhorse · 06-28-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldog55

1. Yes, that makes sense. Your implying WARP = winning games, which it doesn't.

2. It gives you an estimation of the value of a particular player but it's not some end-all stat, and this is why I have no interest in sabermetrics.

3. Value is subjective, performance is not 100% measurable and the best part about baseball to me is subjective analysis, not boiling down players and careers to one or two numbers.

1. Wins Above Replacement Player. WARP attempts to estimate how many wins a player's performance earned for his team over a marginal player.

2. It isn't perfect, but it is miles beyond baseball conventional wisdom bullsh*t.

3. Very true. But offensive and pitching performance can be evaluated with a great deal of accuracy. Defense remains the undiscovered country. I agree with you that personal observation is a needed element in player evaluation. Scouting will never be replaced by statistical performance analysis.

Nor am I saying that you are wrong. Rather, that there is evidence to support the contention that you may be in error.

06-28-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshv02

(1) Figure out how many runs a player is worth and (2) run that number through a pythagorean formula (BPro uses Pythagenport, or something similar sounding).

Edit: Obviously more difficult specifics happen at both #1 and #2 (#2 essentially defines "replacement", #1 essentially defines "wins" or "value").

How do they figure out #1?

enuttage · 06-28-2005, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

How do they figure out #1?

No one knows outside the BBPro peeps. It's proprietary, thus my tongue-in-cheek disclaimer.

We throw it around here, but don't really know what it means. Or, some know what it means...roughly, but not exactly.

dh, for the record, it was all or part of 13 seasons. He returned in 2000.

enuttage · 06-28-2005, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

While I find WARP to be very valuable, I don't use it as absolute for career value as dh does. I prefer to use it as a starting point and dig deeper from there.

Luis,

I know. I just hate that people don't hold different players to the same standard. Not that they have to, but it'd be nice.

You and dh are pretty damn good at being as subjective as these silly threads can be.