The World of Football/Soccer.

[mlyons]

What's your point here, Bababui? Yes, Spain and Holland haven't been as successful as Germany, Italy, and France if you're looking at a broad historical overview of international play. If you're looking at things from that long a perspective, though, it certainly doesn't make CONCACAF look like a strong federation (with no World Cup final appearances despite hosting the thing twice), though, which seemed to be what you were implying. If you're trying to argue that CONCACAF has improved recently then you have to look at what the top teams in Europe are on recent form, though, and there's no question at all that Spain and Holland have to be in that discussion.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by The Funk

Also Newcastle with a 6 game winning streak, longest in the English leagues this season apparently. I hope we don't get promoted, the Championship is much more fun!

Big fish in a small pond. But a big fish nonetheless. I enjoyed Pancrate's goal the other day; very nice to see a little flair. Then a fine return from Shola and Ranger getting onto the sheet last time out. That makes seven on the roll for Newcastle, no?

Originally Posted by mlyons

What's your point here, Bababui? Yes, Spain and Holland haven't been as successful as Germany, Italy, and France if you're looking at a broad historical overview of international play. If you're looking at things from that long a perspective, though, it certainly doesn't make CONCACAF look like a strong federation (with no World Cup final appearances despite hosting the thing twice), though, which seemed to be what you were implying. If you're trying to argue that CONCACAF has improved recently then you have to look at what the top teams in Europe are on recent form, though, and there's no question at all that Spain and Holland have to be in that discussion.

No question at all.

Holland were runners-up in 1978, so that "one 4th place finish [1998] in the last 32 years..." stuff seems chronologically suspect.

[The Funk]

Originally Posted by The Professor

Big fish in a small pond. But a big fish nonetheless. I enjoyed Pancrate's goal the other day; very nice to see a little flair. Then a fine return from Shola and Ranger getting onto the sheet last time out. That makes seven on the roll for Newcastle, no?

Yeah, this division is sweeeet. Really highlights the difference in quality with the Premiership. Our defence is DOMINATING, which is just silly. Great to see Ranger getting a goal. Haven't actually seen him play yet but the forums say he looks a useful young player. Holds the ball up well, apparently. Hopefully a goal'll really get him going.

Pancrate's goal was class. Looks like a nice pickup, we've needed more pace in midfield for years. Did you see Jonas's first (finally!) goal? That was pretty special too.

For anyone interested:

Pancrate's goal (poor quality)
Couldn't find one for Jonas unfortunately.

[theasfl]

For the record, I'm pleased with the US' draw...though quite worried we'll screw it up and set soccer back 5 years here.

[LFC1892]

Oh well Australia...theres always 2014 to qualify for

[The Funk]

You Australians don't do football. You only do manly games like rugby and the other rugby, and Aussie Rules, and cricket.

[ukhotstove]

If I were a Wolves fan mad would not be close to how I'd feel at this moment in time, I can understand big teams resting players against weaker teams, but tonight Wolves sent a near reserve team out against Man United. Meaning Mike McCarthy felt that his team would lose the game even if he had put a full strength team out, he admitted defeat before the game, you never ever admit defeat and never take a dive. In all honesty I'd be asking for his resignation, gutless as far as I'm concerned.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

The US is a hugely better side than Slovenia, or Algeria.

I believe that the US is even competitive with England.

Nothing is a sure thing..but you are a classic example of people talking trash about the US, with not a goddamn thing to back it up.

Seriously, what chance do you give the USA in the WC? When was the last time we've shown we were not the bottom feeders of this tournament? The time we lost to Germany 0-1? Every other time we were a joke.

I'll be rooting heavily for the US and Spain. But my expectations are not high for the US. And I am not too sure we are a hugely better side than the two mentioned above.

IMO the thought of the US being one of the final 8 or 4 teams remaining is akin to believing in ghosts. Something you have to see to believe.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

If I were a Wolves fan mad would not be close to how I'd feel at this moment in time, I can understand big teams resting players against weaker teams, but tonight Wolves sent a near reserve team out against Man United. Meaning Mike McCarthy felt that his team would lose the game even if he had put a full strength team out, he admitted defeat before the game, you never ever admit defeat and never take a dive. In all honesty I'd be asking for his resignation, gutless as far as I'm concerned.

I actually like this. If you know there is a good chance you will lose the game and it is deep into the season, why not rest your players and field them against teams you have a better shot of beating or tying against?
This would be a excellent game to rest players, give back ups match fitness time and give young players a chance to get playing time.
I see it is a good move for a team that it's best hope is surviving until next season.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I actually like this. If you know there is a good chance you will lose the game and it is deep into the season, why not rest your players and field them against teams you have a better shot of beating or tying against?
This would be a excellent game to rest players, give back ups match fitness time and give young players a chance to get playing time.
I see it is a good move for a team that it's best hope is surviving until next season.

I agree. Rest them (maybe not ALL of them) for Burnley this weekend.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I actually like this. If you know there is a good chance you will lose the game and it is deep into the season, why not rest your players and field them against teams you have a better shot of beating or tying against?
This would be a excellent game to rest players, give back ups match fitness time and give young players a chance to get playing time.
I see it is a good move for a team that it's best hope is surviving until next season.

I'm sure the Wolves fans who went to the game would agree with you after spending around 6-8 hours of their life going watching a reserve team and spending around $150 - $200 going watching a reserve team, resting one or two players I can deal with but a whole team nah thats just bs and opens a whole can of worms gambling wise.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

I'm sure the Wolves fans who went to the game would agree with you after spending around 6-8 hours of their life going watching a reserve team and spending around $150 - $200 going watching a reserve team, resting one or two players I can deal with but a whole team nah thats just bs and opens a whole can of worms gambling wise.

I agree with you that part of sports is fan service and entertainment. But I believe that the true essence of sport is in the competition and every team doing everything they can within the rules to win and succeed. That must be present in order for sport to exist.
So by this move I believe Wolves are setting themselves up better for other games and thus meeting the requirement of preserving competition.
Maybe not for one game but for the season as a whole.

[mlyons]

We see clubs giving up on cups all the time; Arsenal hasn't taken the Carling Cup seriously since Wenger took charge and about half of the eligible English teams actively try to get knocked out of the UEFA Cup/Europa League. They do that because they want to be able to field a stronger, more fit team for their more important league matches. How is this any different?

[Muppetus Galacticus]

CL draw

VfB Stuttgart - Barcelona
Olympiacos - Bordeaux
Inter Milan - Chelsea
Bayern Munich - Fiorentina
CSKA Moscow - Sevilla
Lyon - Real Madrid
Porto - Arsenal
AC Milan - Man Utd

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by mlyons

We see clubs giving up on cups all the time; Arsenal hasn't taken the Carling Cup seriously since Wenger took charge and about half of the eligible English teams actively try to get knocked out of the UEFA Cup/Europa League. They do that because they want to be able to field a stronger, more fit team for their more important league matches. How is this any different?

Your Arsenal point is a good one but for the fact that Arsenal in the last 7 seasons have reached the final once the semi final three times and the quarter final three times, in Wenger's term as manager they have only gone out once against non premiership opposition and five times have been knocked out against either Man Utd, Chelsea or Liverpool. What you fail to understand is that Arsenal's youth/reserve team they put out in the league cup is better than the majority of premiership 1st teams unlike Wolves reserves who aren't better than any premiership team, infact probably aren't as good as most championship teams.

As for the Europa League it's a joke, nobody even goes and watches the games so it doesn't matter if the reserves, youths or under 5's play in the game. The fact of the matter is Wolves fans went to Manchester expecting their team to compete, instead they put a reserve team out.

What it boils down to is that Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool fans know that they wont put a full strength team out in the league cup so have the choice to stay at home, Wolves fans were told 10 minutes after they got to the game that they'd be fielding a reserve team which is a bit too late after forking out for a ticket and travel don't you think ?

[ukhotstove]

Ok a question, you've paid around $150 for a ticket to watch your favourite MLB team and spent 2 hours travelling to the game. You've also taken the kids so the price of this game as gone up to around $500 for you, 2 kids and the wife and just as you take your seat your told that the AAA team will be playing instead, would you be happy ?

Answer - Of course you wouldn't and anybody saying they'd be ok with it is talking out of their backside.

[bababui]

The most expensive tix were around 80 pounds if I remember correctly.

Is that Liverpool about to lose both their composure and their match at Portsmouth??

[mlyons]

So apart from the waiting until just before kickoff to announce the lineup (which I agree was a bad move on McCarthy's part and insensitive to his fans [although, let's be clear -- this was an away match and as such affected far fewer Wolves supporters than a home match would have]), your problem with Wolves fielding a fresh lineup (as opposed to Manchester United or Arsenal doing the same thing) is that Wolverhampton doesn't have as good a squad as the bigger clubs. Because Arsenal and Manchester United and other rich clubs have the squad depth to field a second eleven in a match without necessarily being in danger of losing it (although their chances of doing so certainly increase drastically -- remember Manchester United losing to Everton in the FA Cup last season?), it's okay for them to do so, but a smaller club like Wolverhampton or Burnley should be required to throw out the same lineup match after match, regardless of fitness or the match's importance? That just seems like one more way to keep the small clubs down and the big clubs on top.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by bababui

Is that Liverpool about to lose both their composure and their match at Portsmouth??

bwahahaha.............what a great present first thing in the morning. Nothing better than seeing the pukes from Liverpool lose to a bottom table club.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by mlyons

So apart from the waiting until just before kickoff to announce the lineup (which I agree was a bad move on McCarthy's part and insensitive to his fans [although, let's be clear -- this was an away match and as such affected far fewer Wolves supporters than a home match would have]), your problem with Wolves fielding a fresh lineup (as opposed to Manchester United or Arsenal doing the same thing) is that Wolverhampton doesn't have as good a squad as the bigger clubs. Because Arsenal and Manchester United and other rich clubs have the squad depth to field a second eleven in a match without necessarily being in danger of losing it (although their chances of doing so certainly increase drastically -- remember Manchester United losing to Everton in the FA Cup last season?), it's okay for them to do so, but a smaller club like Wolverhampton or Burnley should be required to throw out the same lineup match after match, regardless of fitness or the match's importance? That just seems like one more way to keep the small clubs down and the big clubs on top.

Do you ever actually read what people post, I have MULTIPLE problems with Wolves fielding their reserves, (1) People had paid good money thinking they were going to watch their 1st team play, which they didn't (2) Wolves 1st team is only good enough to beat United 9 times out of 10 so their reserves had no chance (3) The way United are playing at the moment Wolves could actually have got a draw or maybe even have beat them (4) It opens the door open to all kinds of accusations on throwing a game which truth be known McCarthy did, he threw the game and should imo be fined/suspended or even banned. Again your point about United would hold water but for the fact they only lost on penalties by the way 3,000 Wolves fans went to the game.