Pay for play on Team USA? - Page 3

Johnny Slick · 05-03-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boilermaker

Tough. Great players and great teams win. LeBron James is not great and neither is Team USA.

"Don't mind me. I have never watched a game of American basketball in my life."

boilermaker · 05-03-2005, 08:51 PM

I tell you one thing I've never seen the past half dozen years, LeBron James or Team USA accomplish anything worthwhile.

Johnny Slick · 05-03-2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boilermaker

I tell you one thing I've never seen the past half dozen years, LeBron James or Team USA accomplish anything worthwhile.

a. LeBron isn't even 21 years old yet. How many players have been the greatest in the NBA or the world or whatever at age 20? He looks lightyears ahead of where the last young backcourt phenom (Kobe Bryant) was at the same age.

b. Team USA has, over the past couple Olympics, been represented by a couple stars, a few guys who are maybe 10th or 11th in the league at their position, and a couple of collegians who were projected as NBA backups. There has never been a sense of a "team" WRT the Dream Team. The first couple squads were so much better than everybody else that they could still blow everyone out playing iso-ball, but the last few teams have not had that luxury. Of course, if the best in the NBA played, they'd probably be able to do that again, but as I said before, there is no incentive whatsoever for the best in the NBA to play. At best, the rest of the world whines that it's no fair getting their lunch money taken away by the big boys on the block. At worst, they get upset and everyone in the world calls them big-time losers. I sure as hell wouldn't want to play in that environment.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that now that the Cold War is over, so is the last remnant of any excuse to play the Olympics as they stand now. Let the athletes represent themselves, not their country.

boilermaker · 05-03-2005, 09:34 PM

I know, it's just that I think when making a historical assesment with regard to sports, achievement should weigh more than talent on paper. I mean, testing yourself against others really is the essence of sports in the first place. I'll put it this way: I'd want LeBron on my team, but if he broke his back tomorrow and never played again, he can't possibly be put on the same plateau as a Jordan. And the same goes with team. If Team-B USA loses, it's no excuse that they're not the best. They probably still make way more than their opposition makes at their craft. It only says that Euro-leagues, et al, are comparable, if only slightly beneath the NBA. And, as far as incentive goes, I think it's an excuse. They call that "ducking" in boxing.....We're fast on track to become the Prince Naseem Hamed of basketball, as a country.

And, remember, I'm saying this all out of frustration. I feel angry when I see someone making millions of dollars a year miss a free throw. I'm not amused when I hear an allegedly elite player who has never won a championship of note complain about practise. And I'm not sympathetic when I see a millionaire complain about refs calling travelling on them for bunny steps. I have no problem throwing hyperbole around on this issue, but I'm really fed up with Team USA. When you get blown out by Puerto Rico, I'm sorry, but you suck, your team is full of bums, and excuses only make you classless. We have to accept either that American basketball is going down the drain, international basketball is making incredible progress, or both.

Johnny Slick · 05-03-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boilermaker

And, remember, I'm saying this all out of frustration. I feel angry when I see someone making millions of dollars a year miss a free throw.

You would have hated Wilt Chamberlain then, I guess.

Quote:

I'm not amused when I hear an allegedly elite player who has never won a championship of note complain about practise.

No you're not. You're just angry when Allen Iverson specifically complains about it. Other basketball players have skipped practice for entire seasons at a time, and people haven't said two words about it, other than to report the player's acknowledgement of that fact. I keep bringing him up, and I will do so again: Clyde Drexler with the Rockets rarely if ever practiced with the team.

Quote:

And I'm not sympathetic when I see a millionaire complain about refs calling travelling on them for bunny steps.

I have never heard an NBA player complain about getting travels called on him. I've heard all kinds of complaints about the refs about other things (including the whining over star calls - I'll say this: star calls exist to exactly the same extent that the media is liberal), but never, ever about travels. As I said in another post, like the phantom tag, the bunny hop non-call in the lane is just one of those things that's in the game right now. Everyone knows about it, but nobody says a thing.

Quote:

I have no problem throwing hyperbole around on this issue,

I can tell.

Quote:

but I'm really fed up with Team USA. When you get blown out by Puerto Rico, I'm sorry, but you suck, your team is full of bums, and excuses only make you classless.

Or else it's that basketball is a team game which requires a lot of different kinds of talents, and that means that you can't stock your team with Tim Duncan, Ray Allen, and 10 2s and 3s who score all their points through penetration. I love how nobody blames the coaches and the folks who actually pick the teams when Team USA turns out to be so one-dimensional.

Quote:

We have to accept either that American basketball is going down the drain, international basketball is making incredible progress, or both.

I'll readily accept that international basketball is *far* better than it was in 1992. In fact, we are now at a point where, as I said, a one-dimensional Team USA with mid-level talent cannot expect to win a gold medal. That is only a good thing overall. I don't see any particular reason why we should expect 1st-team All-NBAers to play in the Olympics, however.

TonyJ · 05-03-2005, 09:55 PM

The non-team aspect that Johnny Slick mentioned is the most important thing to me. National teams not only have more talent than they have ever had before (remember how shocking it was that Argentina won? Well, their best player is currently the second best player on maybe the best team in the NBA), but they also play together in the regional and world's championships, not to mention more informal games. All of the teams other than the United States have played together many times before and are very much a team. I don't think anyone would question that the U.S. has the most talented and best players, the problem has been that it is a cobbled together all-star team full of players who have never played together and are used to being the star of their respective NBA teams. I promise you, if you sent the Spurs, Pistons or Heat to the Olympics the U.S. would win the gold. Handily.

05-03-2005, 09:55 PM	#46
TonyJ Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Gassin' Kurds Posts: 2,019	The non-team aspect that Johnny Slick mentioned is the most important thing to me. National teams not only have more talent than they have ever had before (remember how shocking it was that Argentina won? Well, their best player is currently the second best player on maybe the best team in the NBA), but they also play together in the regional and world's championships, not to mention more informal games. All of the teams other than the United States have played together many times before and are very much a team. I don't think anyone would question that the U.S. has the most talented and best players, the problem has been that it is a cobbled together all-star team full of players who have never played together and are used to being the star of their respective NBA teams. I promise you, if you sent the Spurs, Pistons or Heat to the Olympics the U.S. would win the gold. Handily. __________________ My Podcasts: Talk Democratic Dysfunction Name Two Bands with Andy and Andy

05-03-2005, 08:51 PM	#42
boilermaker All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,956	I tell you one thing I've never seen the past half dozen years, LeBron James or Team USA accomplish anything worthwhile.

05-03-2005, 09:34 PM	#44
boilermaker All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,956	I know, it's just that I think when making a historical assesment with regard to sports, achievement should weigh more than talent on paper. I mean, testing yourself against others really is the essence of sports in the first place. I'll put it this way: I'd want LeBron on my team, but if he broke his back tomorrow and never played again, he can't possibly be put on the same plateau as a Jordan. And the same goes with team. If Team-B USA loses, it's no excuse that they're not the best. They probably still make way more than their opposition makes at their craft. It only says that Euro-leagues, et al, are comparable, if only slightly beneath the NBA. And, as far as incentive goes, I think it's an excuse. They call that "ducking" in boxing.....We're fast on track to become the Prince Naseem Hamed of basketball, as a country. And, remember, I'm saying this all out of frustration. I feel angry when I see someone making millions of dollars a year miss a free throw. I'm not amused when I hear an allegedly elite player who has never won a championship of note complain about practise. And I'm not sympathetic when I see a millionaire complain about refs calling travelling on them for bunny steps. I have no problem throwing hyperbole around on this issue, but I'm really fed up with Team USA. When you get blown out by Puerto Rico, I'm sorry, but you suck, your team is full of bums, and excuses only make you classless. We have to accept either that American basketball is going down the drain, international basketball is making incredible progress, or both.