How to start a league? Ideas needed.

[Malleus Dei]

Sixto:

So we're back to this baseless, nonsensical Politically Correct attack, are we?

FYI:

1. I played in an amateur league in Texas in the seventies. There was no one in it with a Spanish surname; in fact my team was even mostly made up of blond guys. IIRC, there were only a few black/mixed race guys in the league, all of whose names could be generated by the name file set that was used to create the Texas League. (Is Ron Johnson white or black? Clyde Washington? Tyrrell Sanders? I don't know or care, and you shouldn't either, and all those names have been created by the same name file generator set.) Lest I be once again libeled as a racist by the Politically Correct, I should point out here that my college roommate (and good friend) was not only of Mexican descent but was been born in Mexico, and that I have Mexican and Hispanic friends to this day.

2. It is a matter of historical record that the last all-white national championship college football team was the University of Texas, and that was in the football season immediately previous to the fictional beginning date of the fictional Texas League.

3. The fictional Texas League is clearly labeled "fictional." Even though it does meet the standards of reality, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO. It's fictional and it says so. Fictional means imaginary, not real, made up, fabricated. Bear that in mind.

4. I use my Historical Name Generator file set to create leagues. You create your leagues the way you want, I'll create mine the way I want. By the way, have you contributed any leagues to the community?

Regardless of what the Politically Correct may think of it, the Texas League is a good fictional league, is the most popular fictional league for OOTP, and receives a great deal of praise. If you somehow find it offensive because you think that it is not Politically Correct, then PLEASE don't play it. I don't want to ever have done anything that would contribute to making anyone like that happy anyway.

I'm tired of the false and petty libels about racism, I'm tired of people who weren't playing ball in Texas in the seventies trying to tell me what it must have been like when they weren't there, I'm tired of people trying to tell me that a fictional league is a historical league, and I'm really tired of people trying to tell me that my clearly labeled fictional leagues must meet their own personal political preferences or else.

End of discussion. I'm sure the Politically Correct grudgebearers will now wish to attack and libel me further, but I'm through addressing this utter nonsense.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by seth70liz76

It's discussions like this why I don't go to OT anymore.

So some people have issues with MD--fine and dandy. But leave it out of discussions of the game. Don't turn every thread he posts in into a discussion about MD. It is off-putting to the new members that want to get involved in the forum community. Heck, I've been here a bit over a year and it's off-putting to me--I don't like people I respect (in an OOTP way) lower themselves whenever they get the chance. MD can be pointed, but I've not seen anything out of bounds--LET IT GO--and don't drag the OT attitude to the rest of the boards.

Amen.

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by sixto (emphasis added)

What a person believes or feels, what a person thinks is "right" or "fun" is his own business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with creating a non-Latino league. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with letting people know that a league that is being promoted for use by others that there is a reason they may want to steer clear of that league - of putting time into it only to realize that the Latin-American users in their league find it offensive, or that they themselves simply care about verisimilitude or even just cultural sensitivity.

Personally I think every time the Texas League comes up, it should be somebody's responsibility to point out that it is not suitable for anyone who wants to simulate a modern league.

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Sixto:

So we're back to this baseless, nonsensical Politically Correct attack, are we?

[treedom]

I just had lunch with twelve Mexicans and...

[sixto]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I'm tired of the false and petty libels about racism, I'm tired of people who weren't playing ball in Texas in the seventies trying to tell me what it must have been like when they weren't there, I'm tired of people trying to tell me that a fictional league is a historical league, and I'm really tired of people trying to tell me that my clearly labeled fictional leagues must meet their own personal political preferences or else.

End of discussion. I'm sure the Politically Correct grudgebearers will now wish to attack and libel me further, but I'm through addressing this utter nonsense.

Well, whether you don't respond again or not, your good friend BigCityBaseball will surely be by.

I'm so glad you read my message so carefully. I'll reiterate: it is responsible of people to let other people know that they could be wasting their time setting up a league using the Texas League rosters if they don't wish to create an all-Anglo-names league. I couldn't care less about the 70s, about fiction or about your political persuasions, such as they are.

If I wanted to create a 2005 Texas League, I'd want them to reflect 2005 Texas. But thanks for accusing me of being anti-racist.

[Gil Thorp]

Originally Posted by sixto

I'll reiterate: it is responsible of people to let other people know that they could be wasting their time setting up a league using the Texas League rosters if they don't wish to create an all-Anglo-names league.

I guess this would be the five minutes or so it takes to download and install the file and look over the team rosters.

[SoxWin]

Originally Posted by Joshv02

"

[Vris]

Why is this going on? The reason I said MD was ""baiting"" was because he kept calling everyone "grudge-bearers". Just let it go for Christ's sakes!

Also, he keeps pointing out how he made all these wonderful fictional leagues for the community and says that if you don't use these leagues/provide more of them, then you are useless. Well, if you give out all these fictional leagues and tell people how to use them, then what's the point? Can't people play how they want?

My opinion is that if MD just said nothing about anything, let it all go, we wouldn't have a problem. He doesn't have to keep pointing out about his leagues, because there are other ways to provide to the community. I, for one, don't give a rat's ass about Texas or any of it's leagues. I have not downloaded anything by MD because I just don't care. I'm capable of making my own leagues, thank you.

Regarding the whole thing, yes it's a big deal that there are no hispanic/black names in the file. If I was from Texas, and I was a hispanic, and I didn't find any hispanic names in the Texas League (I don't care what leagues you played in as a young man, this is a fictional baseball text sim league), I would be offended. Other people could find good use of the name generator (the Confederate Baseball Dynasty had a very nice premise...too bad he doesn't appear anymore around these parts...another helpful poster), but the entire premise of it is degrading, wouldn't you say? Of course that wasn't your intention, but that has to be considered. Especially nowadays when everyone gets a little testy swimming in these waters, so close to sharks.

That's my piece. My apologies for making a big deal over nothing. I now know why I shouldn't post.

[asamford]

you know, all of this would stop if MD would just come over and visit us in Off-Topic more often.

P.S. I love you Malleus!!

did you release your 1964 MLB fictional league yet? and what do you have against the Blue Jays? all of your MLB sets are pre-Blue Jay! do you just not like Canadians or something? *kidding!* *kidding!*

[rem]

Originally Posted by ria

How to start a flame war: Mention MD without lavishing him with praise

...

[Vris]

No no no. Don't start **** up again. It's not worth it people. Just leave MD alone, let him play with his leagues, and let's all move on with our worlds.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

Here we go again. What the hell difference does it make if Malleus is recommending his own fictional league for someone else to try?

All I read is he is simply making a newer member to the boards aware of a project he completed. Is that any worse than me pimiping my allsports dynasty in my signature, draft dodger promoting his new facepack or anyone else feeling proud of the work they did for this community?

It is guys like (o) that take so much away from the community by pissing people off when they have to skip through all of your crap every time Malleus makes a post.


The past is the past. Forget about it and move on or do us all a favour and leave this board for good.

Very well said.

[gubaru]

Lost in this mess is an intriguing concept for a fictional historical online league. You could start with a small, regional, segregated league in 1946 or 1947. Then play out the reaction to the breaking of the color barrier in 1947 and the eventual integration of the league.

It might be hard to get the right mix of owners, though. I see it as almost a hybrid of OotP and a role playing game. There would have to be assigned roles (traditionalists, racists, integrationists, moderates(?)) and people would have to agree to interact within them. You'd also need a commitment to write articles regularly. You could also include owner's meetings with the attendant political maneuvering to try to win votes for and against integration. It might be overly ambitious but I think the idea is interesting.

[Malleus Dei]

I've been busily at work.

Emailed/uploaded tonight:

1. The 1976 Fictional MLB League.

2. The Spirit of '76 historical league, version 1.1 (logo and schedule update)

3. Historical Name Generator File Set, version 1.2 (tuned a bit)

The 1968 fictional league, while fun, just didn't give the results I wanted, so I did a fictional 1976 league - I just happened to have a 1976 league laying around I could use as a base - and it rocks. It has real teams, stadiums, logos, and correctly named minor league teams, but fictional players, managers, coaches and scouts. Players were generated using Skydog's instructions for setting up sort of a modern era composite league (and yes, I am well aware that 1976 is four years earlier than Skydog's target period; did I mention yet that this is a fictional league?) and some of Skydog's other modifiers were also used, such as those for hitting and pitching development. The DH and finances are off, and there's no free agency (hurray!). For the schedule I used Le Grande Orange's 1976 schedule - thank you yet again, LGO.

Players were created by the computer using Skydog's modifiers and my Historical Name Generator file set (did I mention yet that this is a fictional league?) and the players were then drafted by the CPU and the minors filled. If you don't like the way the teams are balanced or how the lineups/pitching staffs look, complain to Markus or Steve; I never changed any player ratings nor did I tamper in any way with team compositions.

This league has yielded some really killer down-to-the-last-game pennant races. It provides team BA's of usually around .250-.260 or so with team ERA's usually running from the low-middle 3's to the low-middle 4's, which is just about the way I like it. When a player has a 40+ HR, 1.00+ OPS, 10+ RC/27, 20+ wins, or a 70+ SB season in this league it's a major event.

I love it, it's perfect for me. Your mileage may vary. Those of you who are Politically Correct are urged not to download it - it's a lot of fun, and I don't want you having any of it.

Oh, and did I mention yet that this is a fictional league?

If Joe Rock and Halofan are up to their usual standards tonight, you can look for all three to be available fairly soon. I have no clue about when they might be up at BBSC.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by Vris

Just leave MD alone, let him play with his leagues, and let's all move on with our worlds.

LOL, Vris, it's not just *me* playing with my leagues. At BBSC alone, the OOTP6 leagues I have sole authorship of have been downloaded over 400 times. This doesn't even include OOTP6 leagues that I have contributed to (Born in '69) or my sole or joint leagues for previous versions of OOTP. Plus I have no idea at all how many times my leagues have been downloaded from Halofan's place and the OOTP Download Center. But I will say this: judging from the download records and all the "thank you" messages in emails and PM's I get, a *lot* of people are playing with my leagues.

[twins15]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

LOL, Vris, it's not just *me* playing with my leagues. At BBSC alone, the OOTP6 leagues I have sole authorship of have been downloaded over 400 times. This doesn't even include OOTP6 leagues that I have contributed to (Born in '69) or my sole or joint leagues for previous versions of OOTP. Plus I have no idea at all how many times my leagues have been downloaded from Halofan's place and the OOTP Download Center. But I will say this: judging from the download records and all the "thank you" messages in emails and PM's I get, a *lot* of people are playing with my leagues.

Or let's not move on...

[phenom]

MD, you seem to spend a lot of time patting yourself on the back. To each their own I guess, but understand that that in itself probably rubs people the wrong way. Just a thought.

Also, what is a "real" team in a "fictional" league? You didn't mention if your league was fictional or not.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by phenom

MD, you seem to spend a lot of time patting yourself on the back. To each their own I guess, but understand that that in itself probably rubs people the wrong way. Just a thought.

I spend a lot of time building things for OOTP, some of which I donate to the community. As it happens, I really like the things I release, and think that they're neat, and I'm proud of them, and I get a lot of nice feedback on them, and I'm honest about all of that (and all the many things that I put together for OOTP that I don't think are really, really cool I just never release). If that comes across to some as back-patting instead of honest pride, pleasure and enthusiasm in my work on one of my hobbies, well, sorry, but people are different and people perceive things different ways. I have noticed that other people who also build things for the community (Tigerfan, Al, etc.) tend to understand, and that the people who make pointed comments tend to either not be contributors to the OOTP community or to have a grudge from the old days that they haven't let go of yet (or both).

Originally Posted by phenom

Also, what is a "real" team in a "fictional" league? You didn't mention if your league was fictional or not.

A "'real' team in a 'fictional' league" would be, for example, the 1976 Philadelphia Phillies, with their real logo, who play in the Vet, and who are in the NL East in the 1976, but with a fictional manager, fictional coaches and scouts, and fictional players.

If my enthusiasm and happiness offends anyone then I'm honestly sorry. It's just joy. As a hobbyist, I have compiled or helped to compile a lot of different things over the years for OOTP, and I've had a really good time doing it.

[phenom]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

If my enthusiasm and happiness offends anyone then I'm honestly sorry. It's just joy. As a hobbyist, I have compiled or helped to compile a lot of different things over the years for OOTP, and I've had a really good time doing it.

I can understand and appreciate that, I'm just saying that it seems like you're quick to offer your resume and the like, while others seem to tend to let their contributions speak for themselves.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by phenom

I can understand and appreciate that, I'm just saying that it seems like you're quick to offer your resume and the like, while others seem to tend to let their contributions speak for themselves.

I know two people in real life who do the same things.

One of them is a lot like me. The second one is shy and reserved. They always did work of roughly equal quality.

The shy man is retired and hardly anyone is familiar with his work who does not know him well. He has almost no recognition in his field. More importantly, very few people have taken advantage of his work.

The unshy one is well-known to all - and, interestingly, is disliked by some for no apparent reason. Everyone knows of his work, and he has significant recognition in field. Although he is the same age as the shy man, he still works on, because no one wants to see *him* retire because he is perceived as being too valuable to the community. More importantly, his work is known to all and taken advantage of by all.

I'm friends with the shy man, and I like him, but I can't understand why he lived his life the way that he did. My wife put it best: "He spent his entire life hiding his light under a blanket."