Clemens files for record arbitration numbers

[cinredsfan2000]

I'd Settle for a paltry 1.5 mill a year for say 3years w/a optionfor a 4th.

[TotalEnd98]

Originally Posted by cinredsfan2000

I'd Settle for a paltry 1.5 mill a year for say 3years w/a optionfor a 4th.

Coincidentally, that's about what Eric Milton is worth, and look what he got! So don't discount your baseball future just yet, the Reds may have a place for you in their organization.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by TotalEnd98

I'd bet Clemens either plans to retire or to agree to a deal outside of arbitration, and just submitted this number for sh*ts and giggles, to get people talking about him. Obviously, it worked.

Yeah, and for either of those plans, the number he entered for arbitration purpose is pretty much useless anyway. You can't really say Clemens is greedy if he ended up retiring, which means taking no money at all, or settled for a contract before arbitration, which means he's simply taking what the team is willing to pay.

[KILLERBS24]

He is greedy, because Beltran wouldn't come back he expects them to take all the Beltran money and give it to him. He's only made like 200 million dollars in his career, he desperately needs this 22 The Astos got a discount on him last year but they also bent over backwards to give this guy every special incentive he wanted. I think this is just his way of retiring and making it look like he was semi forced into it. He doesn't want to come back, the Astros shouldn't want him back, tell him to go home and get old. They need to get young and start over, keep the money, make a new plan and start moving toward it.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Hammer

I'm sure Clemens knows that he isn't going to get 22 million to pitch for Houston, I don't know why he picked 22 million, maybe its cause its his 22 season or his number 22. But I'm sure he knows that is request won't even make it to the arbitration table.

I just heard Todd Wright on All Night talking about this ... He said that Clemens accepted arbitration just in case he decides to come back .... the 13.5 mil that the Astros offered him is probably the deal if he does come back. Clemens has to throw out a figure for arbitration purposes and 22 is a number that means alot to him. His jersey #, his 22nd year, supposively like 5 other things in his life. he is as superstitious as the next baseball player so when asked to give a meanlingless (sp) # he is going to give his lucky #.

[Cardinal Rule]

Originally Posted by reds1

Why is it wrongheaded? Just because he can strike out batters, suddenly he becomes untouchable? I hear what you're saying, but the value system in western society is out of whack. Owners/players reap too much money and others such as teachers are not paid enough, etc., etc.

When you consider that teachers are being pressured to coach kids (including future Rockets/A-Rods) on their own time without compensation, something not right.

And oh, I'm willing to go down to 2.25mil/year!

You may be of the opinion that a dominant baseball player is or is not worth x million per year. But the fact is that he's worth whatever money he can get. A trash collector makes more money than a teacher in my part of the country. A landscaper makes more money than a fireman. It's all relative. 40,000 people don't pay 10 bucks a shot to watch a trash collector, teacher, landscaper, or fireman. Yet you may be of the opinion that all of them add more value to society than does a baseball player. But it's the world we live in.

It is also a know negotiation tactic to 'ask high' to ensure you don't have to come down further than you are willing. If he asked for $15 million, he would be stuck somewhere between $13.5 million and $15 million. But by asking for $22 mil, at least the potential is there to get the most the Astros will possibly offer. And don't forget, the Astros know Clemens will almost definitely not go to any other team, so although he can play the retirement card, they can play the 'this is your home team' card.

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by reds1

Owners/players reap too much money and others such as teachers are not paid enough, etc., etc.

While I advocate teachers making more money across the board, this is a completely ridiculous argument. Teachers don't generate billions of dollars in attendance, television, merchandise, and advertising revenue, do they?

[D Love]

Is everyone forgetting that he made $5M last year, which relative to other star pitchers was quite a paycut? So the $22M shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum.

Also, if the numbers are $13.5M and $22M, then the midpoint, in Clemens' view, is probably about $18.5M, and so he's assuming his $3.5M excess will be favored over the Astros' $5M shortfall.

Or maybe that's what it would take for him not to retire.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

He is greedy, because Beltran wouldn't come back he expects them to take all the Beltran money and give it to him. He's only made like 200 million dollars in his career, he desperately needs this 22 The Astos got a discount on him last year but they also bent over backwards to give this guy every special incentive he wanted. I think this is just his way of retiring and making it look like he was semi forced into it. He doesn't want to come back, the Astros shouldn't want him back, tell him to go home and get old. They need to get young and start over, keep the money, make a new plan and start moving toward it.

Thanks - any more helpful insight ? Why the hell shouldnt he make whatever he can ?

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Thanks - any more helpful insight ? Why the hell shouldnt he make whatever he can ?

Precisely.

What I don't understand is why people all of a sudden say "baseball players are only worth xyz," when they think that anyone else is this world is worth whatever they are paid.

Most people do not contribute any extrinsic value in some real sense. Teachers should be paid $17mm a year, lawyers $2.50 a year, and accountants $1.75. Baseball players should get fed used corn and be happy because they are playing a game. But, in real life, we take what we can get.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Joshv02

Precisely.

What I don't understand is why people all of a sudden say "baseball players are only worth xyz," when they think that anyone else is this world is worth whatever they are paid.

Most people do not contribute any extrinsic value in some real sense. Teachers should be paid $17mm a year, lawyers $2.50 a year, and accountants $1.75. Baseball players should get fed used corn and be happy because they are playing a game. But, in real life, we take what we can get.

Maybe that's why some third world country people would say the Americans are greedy.

Getting paid 1000 dollars a week for what they'd do for 10 bucks?!?!?!? Greedy bastards!!!!

[Cardinal Rule]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Maybe that's why some third world country people would say the Americans are greedy.

Getting paid 1000 dollars a week for what they'd do for 10 bucks?!?!?!? Greedy bastards!!!!

Until they get American outsourced jobs.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Cardinal Rule

Until they get American outsourced jobs.

But when they got those jobs, they are paid 10 bucks. Nothing to be happy about.

[Joshv02]

They should play baseball!

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

But when they got those jobs, they are paid 10 bucks. Nothing to be happy about.

I once had a glorp explain to me that this is because paying them more would upset the fragile balance of their economies.

What altruistic corporations we have! I'm proud!

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I once had a glorp explain to me that this is because paying them more would upset the fragile balance of their economies.

What altruistic corporations we have! I'm proud!

Aaaaah, so Clemens the greedy bastard is hurting the fragile balance of bolde freedome economies!!!!

[Karros270]

Originally Posted by reds1

Why is it wrongheaded? Just because he can strike out batters, suddenly he becomes untouchable? I hear what you're saying, but the value system in western society is out of whack. Owners/players reap too much money and others such as teachers are not paid enough, etc., etc.

When you consider that teachers are being pressured to coach kids (including future Rockets/A-Rods) on their own time without compensation, something not right.

It's the superstar effect. He has the potential to reach millions of people and is in a highly specialized field. Teachers potential audience is only as big as the amount of students they teach, there are also way more teachers out there than Cy Young caliber pitchers. Of course Clemens is worth more than a teacher because he reaches so many more people that create revenue for his team.

If a teacher could get on TV and teach a class to millions of people on a subject that few others are qualified to teach and get people to actually tune in then they would be worth millions too.

It's all about there economic worth. Morals are a poor tool to judge economic value with in a capatilist society.

[KILLERBS24]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Thanks - any more helpful insight ? Why the hell shouldnt he make whatever he can ?

Brilliant post as usual! He came to houston last year cuz he wanted to be home and wanted to be with his kids and he didn't care about money, now this year money is an issue, so which is it? Is he the 'hometown' guy happy to be home with his family or a pitcher out for the best deal, it can't be both. A player can go after all the money he wants but don't give me the I'm glad to be home bs and then a year later your just out for the money again.

[reds1]

Originally Posted by Cardinal Rule

You may be of the opinion that a dominant baseball player is or is not worth x million per year. But the fact is that he's worth whatever money he can get. A trash collector makes more money than a teacher in my part of the country. A landscaper makes more money than a fireman. It's all relative. 40,000 people don't pay 10 bucks a shot to watch a trash collector, teacher, landscaper, or fireman. Yet you may be of the opinion that all of them add more value to society than does a baseball player. But it's the world we live in.

I am of all of those opinions, and I still stay the values in this 'world we live in' are out of whack.

Edit: fixed the quote box

[Karros270]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

Brilliant post as usual! He came to houston last year cuz he wanted to be home and wanted to be with his kids and he didn't care about money, now this year money is an issue, so which is it? Is he the 'hometown' guy happy to be home with his family or a pitcher out for the best deal, it can't be both. A player can go after all the money he wants but don't give me the I'm glad to be home bs and then a year later your just out for the money again.

He could have also declined arbitration and become a free agent if he was after money. Staying home has a certain and most probably very high value to him. In order for him to come back the Astro's have to offer him value that is higher than that otherwise he would be happier at home.