Holy SHI****

[Rasmuth]

Jones and Wladimir Klitschko can hang out together on the porch drinking beer and vodka and sing Springsteen's "Glory Days".

Wish I'd seen the fight!

[Bronx Bomber 15]

Holyfield should join them while he can still drink without the aid of a straw

If Jones and Tarver did meet again, anyone think it would be in Jnes best interest for them to fight at a higher weight where Roy may be more comfortable? Maybe around 188-192? It may be possible for RJ to stay away for a few rounds and maybe (maybe...) Tarver won't cary the added weight that well (his first time fighting at a higher weight) and Roy could capitalize.

Just a thought.

[Rasmuth]

If Holyfield keeps fighting...even a straw might be too much...he might need an I.V.

[PittPanther]

Originally posted by Jim Trunzo
I can't resist tossing my 2 cents into the ring. I have never been a huge Roy Jones fan. I grant him his tremendous physical gifts and I easily admit that he is, and has been, head and shoulders above most of the fighters in his era. That there has been a lack of competition during most of his career isn't his fault . . .

but . . .

Roy Jones doesn't like being a fighter and he is deathly afraid of being hurt. He has not been the same fighter since he witnessed what happened to Gerald McClellan. I have read everything there is to read on and about Jones. I have spoken to him on several occassions as well as to others who know him. I am not saying in any way, shape or form that Jones is a coward - no man that crawls into the ring is a coward - but he has a deep, abiding fear of permanent damage. And while that is extremely logical and very intelligent, it takes that special something away from a fighter.

I am not happy that Roy Jones lost, nor am I disappointed in him. What I am disapponted in (though not surprised) is that Jones immediately dismissed a third fight. That is not the trait of a champion. That is not the hunger for greatness that made a LaMotta fight Robinson so many times, that brought Ali and Frazier together three times, that made Mickey Ward and Arturo Gatti who they are.

The truth is that Roy Jones only takes fights that he is damn confident he can easily win. Of course, all successful fighters believe they can win, but I mean Jones take fights that he can see little or no way he can lose and win taking minimal damage - thanks to his great, great physical skills.

He refused to fight Michaelzewski - why? He didn't want hosed in Germany, especially after what had happened to him in the Olympics. But come on! That was the best fight out there for him for years and years - and Michaelzewski was MADE for Jones. But he was a risk. And before you site Jones' rematch with Tarver (a rematch that most insiders were shocked that Jones agreed to), keep in mind that Jones' ego surely convinced him that the if he beat Tarver in a fight in which Jones was clearly not 100%, what would he do to him in a bout in which he was not only motivated but physically ready for?

Tarver is a good fighter, not a great fighter. I would choose Jones, hands down in a rematch, even though Tarver may simply have his number. I don't think Jones has lost much from his prime; I think he got caught with the kind of punch that would have put anyone down - although I think many fighters would have taken it better and recovered.

Jones, like my favorite Muhammad Ali, is not a great boxer in the traditional sense. Neither is a great defensive fighter, for example, relying on tremendous speed and instinct to escape punches rather than pure technique. However, Jones, unlike Ali, doesn't have the same stuff inside nor does he have the chin.

I remember not long ago when many of you clamored that Jones belonged in the top three all-time heavyweights; I disagreed then and will again. A fighter who has a good chin, good hand speed, adequate power and the will to pressure Jones all fight long can beat him. Jones would never have beaten Ezzard Charles. I believe Jones is still Top Ten material but not Top Five.

I also disagree that history will be kind to Jones. I think that his reputation will take a minor hit (barring something unforeseen - like huge wins over tough opposition) in much the same way that Marciano's has (too small, fought old men). It won't be enough to hurt him much but he'll never be lionized like a Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali. Nor should he be!

I guess beating Hopkins doesn't count. . . and Toney, but why?

Jim, this is the first time I've ever really outright disagreed with any of your comments.

He won't be lionized like Louis or Ali because they are heavies! He isn't, and that is the only reason.

Before you discount a rematch let's see what happens. And before you say history won't be kind to Roy, let's wait on that one too.

He got caught one time in a fantastic career and you are all over the guy. Kick him when he's down, he probably deserves it.

Personally, I think most don't like his attitude and therefore don't respect his skills.

"I'm not saying he's a coward. . . but"-----How are we to take that line? My father once told me that you can ignore everything that gets said before a "but" is added into any sentence. Here is seems very true.

[darthpb]

Pitt, I'm not kicking him now that he's down but facts are facts and he has never been hit before...again, partly because he was such an incredible BOXER but to be one on the greatest FIGHTERS of all time you need to have been in and prevailed in a battle. Get up from some knockdowns, cuts, pull out a dramatic win. Before the first Tarver fight all the questions were still being asked...he showed heart in the first fight but the first real blow ever landed knocked him out...I mean Hearns has always had to live down his chin but he took LOTS of punches before he eventually was stopped...Hagler and Hearns pounded him and was there taking it as long as he could. This was the FIRST real test for his chin and it failed miserably

Originally posted by darthpb
Pitt, I'm not kicking him now that he's down but facts are facts and he has never been hit before...again, partly because he was such an incredible BOXER but to be one on the greatest FIGHTERS of all time you need to have been in and prevailed in a battle. Get up from some knockdowns, cuts, pull out a dramatic win. Before the first Tarver fight all the questions were still being asked...he showed heart in the first fight but the first real blow ever landed knocked him out...I mean Hearns has always had to live down his chin but he took LOTS of punches before he eventually was stopped...Hagler and Hearns pounded him and was there taking it as long as he could. This was the FIRST real test for his chin and it failed miserably

Hearns did get hit a lot in certain fights and look what it did to him!

It's no sign of greatness for a fighter to be able to take a punch, if that fighter can't also dish it out. If that were the case, Tex Cobb would go down in history as one of the best heavies!

Jones has been a great fighter because, while he wasn't getting hit, he was hitting his opponents hard and often. What happened to him is what happens to all fighters eventually, if they stay around long enough.

[Boxingnut]

http://www.boxing-videos.us/fight1104.mpg

Here is link to the knockout. Hopefully it will work.

[darthpb]

60's...I said he was the greatest BOXER not FIGHTER...and yes, you do need to take a punch in addition to dish it out to be GREAT fighter...If Hearns was KO2 in all his big fights he wouldn't be great...Leonard got hit and took it, Hagler on and on and on...If Tyson never got hit he'd be the greatest HVY as it stands, he's not because if anyone could hit him a few times he cowered...Jones is a great BOXER, not FIGHTER

[sabotai]

Originally posted by Boxingnut
http://www.boxing-videos.us/fight1104.mpg

Here is link to the knockout. Hopefully it will work.

Nope, Bandwidth Limit Exceeded.

[wildhawke11]

Jones has won 4 belts but bar Toney always avoided what we all regard as the legitimate champions

Bar as i said Toney and lets bring in Hopkins, go through Jones opposition and see just how easy opposition they were. How many of them will even be remembered in years to come. There were a few fights out there for him but the reward was not worth the risk *This is not the hallmark of a true champion in my book*
He never met Nigel Benn, Gerald McClellen, Michaelzewski, and at the time when he fought Hopkins, Bernard was not in fact the number one contender. If my memory serves me right Hopkins was in fact 5th or 6th at the time.

You cannot even begin to compare Roy Jones opposition with the name
Jim Trunzo brought up *Ezzard Charles* looking back through boxing history Jones competition would look like a *walk in the park* for fighters like Robinson, Greb, Walker and the like.

Charles fought Charley Burley, Jimmy Bivins, Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott and he fought some of these 2 or 3 times plus many other good fighters.


We wont even go into fighters like Mickey Walkers or Harry Greb or the likes competition. Yes, on paper Roy Jones numbers look impressive but the difference between the opposition is like a Rolex and a cheap tinsel watch.

Max Kellerman the guy who all the youngsters seem to like said onetime Jones would beat Liston and Marciano. Just touching gloves with the Rock would feel like the blow that Tarver hit Roy with. Does anyone now believe that that Bob Foster could not have stopped Jones. Foster had the balls to step in the ring with the greatest do you honestly think Roy would have done that. Maybe for 30 million he might have considered it.

Roy Jones is a very talented boxer and athlete, but as i have always feared if taken to the trenches it would be proved unlike the great Ali that he respects his health to much to risk any damage to himself.

Talented yes, sorry but for me anyway and experts who i have the greatest respect for because of this in no way an all time great.

The Middleweight division which at one time was regarded as the elite division has been pretty weak for a number of years Roy Jones was the best in that era. I will agree that's is all he could be.
Roy Jones was quite happy to call it a night against Tarver and that's the difference.

To say he was old is an excuse, yes he has lost a little, but his 34 year old body because of the picked fights and not being in any major wars is probably equal to any old timers 30 year old body. Simply because of the wars they had been in and the conditions of the times.

Maybe others see it different and that there prerogative but in my many years of studying the fight game i can only call it as i see it.
With respect meant to you all.
Danny

[PittPanther]

Kick him!

[Jim Trunzo]

Ah, Pitt Panther! LOL - I apologize. The ". . . but . . . " was just to emphasize the following paragraph. I have no doubt that Roy Jones isn't afraid of any fighter - his fear is the fear of injury and therefore always (well, almost always) errs on the side of caution. He is and always has been a safety-first fighter - he never has really put it all on the line. And 97% of the time, he never has had to - God Bless Him.

Please note all the kudos I give him - but I don't think you can dispute my criticisms. You mention Bernard Hopkins but that fight was one of boxing's great stinkers, considering the talent involved. Jones beat him but was hardly impressive. His win over Toney was, on the other hand, an excellent and dominating win.

As far as his personality goes, Roy Jones is ten times as friendly and humorous in person that that big fake George Foreman. I think that Jones is much easier to take than, say, Hamed ever was.

But I truly don't think he's a Top Five light-heavy. I'm interested where you would rank him. I respect your opinion quite a bit and love to hear what others have to say . . .

even if they disagree with me! LOL.

[Jim Trunzo]

By the way, I'd be very interested, in light of the discussions taking place, how many times out of 10, you think Roy Jones would have won versus the following (Jones wins/opponent's wins):

Billy Conn (3/7)

Bob Foster (3/7)

Ezzard Charles (1/9)

John Henry Lewis (3/7)

Michael Spinks (4/6)

Harold Johnson (4/6)

Victor Galindez (7/3)

John Conteh (7/3)

Maxie Rosenbloom (7/3)

Accepting the adage that styles make fights, I think Jones would have had an excellent chance against, say, a Dwight Braxton or Matthew Saad Muhammad - because his speed was too great and he would have probably busted them up - although both would have been very tough fights (I'm talking about all the fighters in their primes). But I think some slick fighters like Joey Maxim or Lloyd Marshall might have given him fits. Jones probably would have had no problems with a Jose Torres or that ilk.

Just food for thought.

[almo]

What about the 22-0 22 KOs Light heavy weight Michael Moorer?

That would have been a tough fight too!! I always thought that if Michael Moorer would have not chased money and Jack Daniels to the heavyweight division, he might have been my generation's bob foster.

Chris

[Boxingnut]

Originally posted by sabotai
Nope, Bandwidth Limit Exceeded.

Sabotai

It works on mine. Do you have broadband or 56K?

Regards

email me I have two different links and I will try and send you both

[Boxingnut]

Originally posted by Boxingnut
Sabotai

It works on mine. Do you have broadband or 56K?

Regards

email me I have two different links and I will try and send you both

Sorry the email address is robmorris@totalise.co.uk

[sabotai]

I have broadband, but no matter. I downloaded it from somewhere else.

On that note, I can't see how anyone would describe that punch as a lucky punch. Jones glances a right punch off Tarver, takes a step back, Tarver takes a step forward and plants the left hook on Jones' jaw. Pretty much textbook.

[rkcanaday]

When I think about Roy's prime, I don't think LHW. I think about SMW and his last fight at MW. Maybe even his fight with Percy Harris.

Thomas Tate - Tate goes 12 hard rounds with Julian Jackson two years before. After a fast paced first round, Roy catches a charging Tate with one left hook in round two.

James Toney - Forget about Toney's weight. The angles Roy gave James were genius.

Antoine Byrd - Roy waits a few seconds and then just rushes the guy. KO1

Vinny Paz - Roy uses his jab probably more viscously than any other fight, doesn't let Paz touch him in round 4, and then ends the fight with an unbelievable combination.

Tony Thornton - Thornton is old and can't handle the speed or power. Dropped early and TKO'd in 3.

Merqui Sosa - Sosa has just been rated by the Ring as having the best chin pound for pound. Roy decides to slug with him due to Sosa's terrible defense. Roy gets him down with one right hand and TKOs him seconds later. If you want to see Roy really bang with a guy, this is it.

Eric Lucas - Roy takes him time wearing down Lucas for a late TKO on cuts as he foolishly plays basketball the afternoon of a fight.

Bryant Brannon - After Brannon rushes Roy at the bell, Roy lands a good body shot and starts one of the best combinations I ever seen to get Brannon down. Brannon survives the round, but gets knocked down in the second with an uppercut-hook-hook combination. Seconds later he goes down hard from another combination and stays there.

[hamed]

Hey Jim, how did I get pulled in this? LOL, just kidding, I know you meant the other (real) "Hamed". Your info on Foreman was interesting too!

almo: Good point about Moorer & you're right, that was a tough fight for Roy in TBCB. I fought them for my IBO crown on Sunday & it was stopped in the 8th due to Roy's left eye swelling - probably due to right hand jabs & hooks from Moorer!

[thebadguy]

When I say "lucky punch", I dont mean it was a punch that just landed by mistake. I mean it was one of those freak occurences that we will likely NEVER see again. Tarver got lucky. If he and Roy fought 10 more times, I would pick Roy 10 times!