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Old 04-28-2004, 08:52 PM   #41
Hank Greenberg
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux
[rant]
There is only one thing about that which can be extremely frustrating for me. Let's face it, the in-game Computer AI needs to be overhauled. It's really rough to watch it let a pitcher bat in the top half of the inning, then when the bottom half of the inning starts to pull that pitcher then for a reliever. Why not use a pinch hitter?!??!??!/
[/rant]
Oh yea (not that I havn't forgot when I get into a rhythm hitting 1)

The in-game logic is pretty weak (I cant help but feel us pbp'rs are being forgotten lately ) and thats just one example.

THe AI wont steal when there ahead (or wont enough)
Pinch hitting in general is bad (they'll pinch hit for their cleanup hitter)
They'll take out their #3 hitter for a defensive replacement in a tie game (even if the replacement cant hit and isn't that much better on defence)
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:56 AM   #42
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Thursday, April 27th
An off-day before we begin a 5-game homestand against Denver and Alburquerque. Following the homestand we embark on a 20 game road trip. I use the day for a little housekeeping. My pitching staff is very tired. I am still going with 10 pitchers but two of them, Baxter and reliever James Green are hurt. The rest of my bullpen is tired but the off day will help in that regard. I do need to get another pitcher before tomorrow's game so I call up John Sanders from San Antonio. Sanders has 3 saves in 3 innings of work for the Missions and a spotless era. He is not a top prospect by any stretch of the imagination but hopefully he can do the job for us. He was drafted by the Bees in the 6th round of the 1948 draft out of Centereach, New York.

To make room for him on the roster I made a move I was considering for a couple of days. Stud shortstop prospect Michael Desrochers was hitting just .105 and seemed to be losing confidence. He is still only 23 and has just 37 major league games to his credit so I hope he takes the demotion well and regains his confidence and focus in San Antonio. If he does, he will be back in the majors before you know it.

Vince Middleton still has two days to clear waivers and if he successfully passes he will go to AAA and outfielder Les Johnson will likely be recalled. Johnson is leading San Antonio with a .387 average.

Firday, April 28th
A 5-run first inning provides all the offensive support Edward Artman needs as we top Denver 7-4 on ballcap day at the ballpark. Artman allowed just 2 earned runs in 8 innings work to improve his record to 1-2. Newly called-up reliever John Sanders tossed a 1-2-3 ninth to earn a save in his major league debut.

First baseman Kraig Edison went 3-for-3 with a homer to key the offense. Edison's .324 average leads the club. In off the field news Middleton cleared waivers so I sent him down to AAA and recalled Les Johnson.

In addition, star pitcher Arthur Baxter is healthy and ready to get the call tomorrow. My rotation now consists of Baxter, Artman and Harry Carter...each of whom I have confidence in, and likely Richard Johnson who I have little confidence in. I got an email from our PR director who says hat day was a resounding success and our fan interest increased slightly.

Saturday April 29th
Rule V draft pick Brian Hafford was the hero as his pinch-hit rbi double broke a 1-1 tie in the 8th inning and propelled us to a 5-1 victory over Denver. Hafford was sent up to sacrifice bunt but after fouling off two attempts he ripped his first career major league hit. Arthur Baxter went the distance, fanning 8 and allowing just 5 hits for his first victory of the season.

With the 3 game winning streak we are now 5-6 and just 3 games behind front-running Phoenix.

On the farm - Looks like we have two aces in Class A St George. 2nd round pick Randell Elzy ran his record to 2-0 with a second straight complete game victory. He joins Manny Amaral at 2-0. Elzy is not that highly thought of by scouts = he is our 10th best prospect.

In San Antonio, Michael Desrochers is trying to prove a point. He is 3-for-7 with a .600 obp after 2 games with the Missions. That kind of effort will get him back up with the big club in no time.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:45 PM   #43
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Tiger Fan, great dynasty as always.

Just curious, what percentages are you using for player evaluation?
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:35 PM   #44
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Thanks for the compliment.

Player evaluation of course only affects how the cpu teams view players not how I do so I wanted them to be fairly accurate in assessing talent. As a result I went 50% ratings, 5% current season stats (1952), 30% last year (1951) stats and 15% 1950 stats.

I figured this would make the ratings most important to the cpu GM's but also put a decent emphasis on what the player did last year and the year before. At the allstar break I think I will reverse the current season and 1950 percentages. I am waiting until then so there is a decent amount of games played to give a better assessment of this years performance.
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:03 PM   #45
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Tiger fan, that would be very accurate, they can evaluate a player 105% instead of the mortal 100%.

Your in deep doo-doo
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:55 PM   #46
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oops. Meant to type 15% for 1950 stats....editing it now.
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Old 04-30-2004, 02:51 PM   #47
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Great Dynasty Tiger. Keep it up!
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Old 05-01-2004, 02:34 AM   #48
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SUNDAY, APRIL 30th
Break up the Bees! Red-hot Salt Lake completes the sweep with a 3-1 victory over Denver to improve to .500 on the season. Our 4th straight win comes in fine fashion thanks to a terrific job from pitcher Harry Carter, a man waived just over a week ago by these same Denver Bears. Carter pitched 8 and a third innings of 9 hit ball and then gave way to John Sanders for the final two outs. Rookie closer Sanders is 2 for 2 in save opportunities and a perfect 5-for-5 this season counting his work at AAA San Antonio.

Jeff Swaney, elevated to the starting lineup because of Bobby Blecha's dismal 4-for26 start, made the most of his opportunity by getting 3 hits and driving in two runs. Cesar 'Alley Cat' Alvarez had a pair of hits and scored twice. We now host Alburquerque (7-5) for two games before embarking on a 20-game road trip.

DOWN ON THE FARM - Manny Amaral had another complete game victory for St George to run his record to 3-0 with a 1.67 era. My Class A manager is not yet telling me that Manny is ready for the next level but at age 21 and in his 4th season of pro ball I think it is time we tested him at AA. Manny will have some company on the trip to Topeka because his battery-mate, catcher Andrew Sistrunk, has also earned a promotion. The 24 year old Sistrunk is hitting .410 with 3 homers in 12 games for the Utes. He hit .264 with 7 homers in his first pro season a year ago.

Going the other way will be number 1 pick David McMullin. The outfielder is feeling the pressure in Topeka and is hitting just .139 in 36 at bats.

Also career minor leaguers OF Jonathan Hiott, OF Lawrence Wilson, OF Will Childers, 2B Lawrence Yuen and C Shawn Wyatt were given their outright release.
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Old 05-01-2004, 02:25 PM   #49
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Monday May 1, 1952
Special from the Salt Lake City Tribune columnist Whitey McGrew


Spring is a time for renewed optimism, a time full of hopes and dreams for the summer about to unfold. For the past decade baseball fans in Salt Lake have had the same dream every April only to see reality come barrelling down on them quicker than an Arthur Baxter fastball by the time May rolls around. However, there is a buzz around town about the Bees this May 1st. This club is tied for second in the Mountain League, lofty heights they haven't seen since the days before the Untied States entered World War 2. It is only May and we have barely put a dent in the schedule but a 5-game winning streak from a team that has shown us so little for so long gets our hearts racing quicker than the sight of a Jane Russell pinup.

There are some positive signs coming out of the old Salt Lake Fieldhouse and for a change there are more fannies in the seats behind the dugouts than on the field of play. However, 13 games does not make a season and this is a club that has consistantly had sand kicked in it's face by the bullies of the Mountain Loop. Has new manager Tiger Fan brought in a magic elixir so that this perennial 98-pound weakling can finally bulk up and take a stand against the bullies? A 20 game road trip commencing this weekend will give us a good indication if the Bees are for real or if the fans will once again be stung by false hopes that fade away every spring in Salt Lake.



From the GM's journal

A 5-run 7th inning helped us topple Alburquerque 8-6 for our 5th straight victory. 3B Daniel Esparza delivered a bases-loaded double as the big blow of the rally. Esparza had 3 hits in total on the day and Jeff Swaney had his second straight multi-hit game. Number 4 starter Richard Johnson was by no means outstanding but he pitched well enough to earn his first victory of the season. Rule V pickup Brian Hafford got his second start of season at shortstop and chipped in with a hit to run his average to .200. Hafford also made several solid plays in the field but none could match the 5th inning grab by the glove of leftfielder Jody Gautreau who reached over the wall to take away a would be homer from Arrowheads third sacker Bill 'Long Haul' Nyquist. That catch was a game saver as with two on base Albuquerque would have taken a 6-3 lead at the time.
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Old 05-01-2004, 08:01 PM   #50
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Just to try and bring some other players around the league to life for both myself and those following the league I thought I would periodically look at award winners or hot teams in the Mountain League. I will only very rarely discuss the 8 team Pacific Coast League as at this stage it is enough work just learning the Mountain loop.

Monday May 1, 1952
Press Release from Mountain League Head Office

Wilmer and Provost Win Monthly Honors.

Emmitt Provost is a big reason why the Kansas City Blues have won 4 straight Mountain League Pennants and if he has any say in it they will make it 5 in a row. Provost picked up right where he left off last year, when he went 28-6 to win the 4th King Hurler Award of his career, by going 3-0 in April. As a result he was named Mountain League Pitcher of the Month. Provost, who had a miniscule 1.03 era and fanned 29 batters in 26 and a third innings.

The 32 year old from Blacksburg, Virginia was drafted first overall by the Blues in 1942. After going 1-5 in a late season callup in 1943, Provost has only once failed to win 20 games in a season. His career mark is 194-76 and his era is 2.09. He is a 7-time allstar and has been on 5 Western Series winning clubs. In postseason play he is 8-2. Without a doubt he is a future hall of famer.

New Orleans outfielder Mark Wilmer was named the player of the month. Wilmer drove in 14 runs and scored 15 while batting .415 with 6 roundtrippers. He presently leads the Mountain League in all 3 triple crown categories.

Selected first overall in 1940, the 33 year old Indianapolis native has spent his entire career in the Pelicans organization. A 6-time allstar he was named Mountain League MVP in 1948.
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Old 05-02-2004, 02:02 PM   #51
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Tuesday, May 2, 1952

The streak continues. Salt Lake wins its 6th in a row with a 5-4 victory over Albuquerque. The Bees are getting contributions from very unlikely sources. A 2-run homer from backup first baseman Ruben Lozano in the 8th inning proved the difference on this day. Lozano was getting his first start of the season as I gave regular first baseman Kraig Edison the day off. It was just the 4th homer of his career.

John Sanders improves to a perfect 3-for-3 in save opportunites since he was called up from San Antonio to cover for James Green, who is day to day with a stiff elbow. Edward Artman went 8 innings for the win to even his record at 2-2.

At 8-6 on the season we are tied for second with Denver, just a half game back of front running Phoenix. The Roadrunners were doubled up 4-2 by Houston today. We begin a 20 game roadie tomorrow in New Orleans against the Pelicans. We will also visit Houston, Kansas City, Dallas and Denver before the trip is completed.

In other league news, Denver's Ben Schmitz had a 3 homer game in the Bears 8-6 win over New Orleans.

In the minors, first round pick David McMullin homered in his debut with Class A St George. McMullin, as you may recall was hitting just .139 in AA before his demotion. Third round pick Travis Mader has already stole 5 bases for St George. Speed was never an issue but could he get on base enough to use that speed? So far the answer is likely not. Mader is 10-for-44 (.227) and we are concerned about his 10 strikeouts compared to just 3 walks.

At AA Topeka, Andrew Sistrunk has struggled in his first two games since being promoted to the Owls from St George. Sistrunk is 0-for-5 so far after hitting a league best .411 with the Utes before his promotion. Number 1 prospect,pitcher Manny Amaral, was promoted along with Sistrunk but he has yet to appear in a AA game. Robert Green (.419,5,15) is on the leaderboard in each of the triple crown categories but at 27 he is anything but a pro prospect.

In AAA San Antonio, shortstop Michael Desrochers is hitting .467 (7-for-15) since his demotion from the Bees. Expect him back with the big club in another week or two. Carl Blackshire (.417,1,15) is also making noise for a promotion. The 27 year old second baseman has had two brief stints with the Bees in earlier years but has never had a chance to earn a full-time job. My scout is not too high on him but I can't ignore numbers like this in San Antonio much longer.

Tim Basham is another AAA vet who likely deserves a shot with the Bees. He hit 50 homers a year ago in AAA and already has 5 thru 14 games this season. My scout says he will never hit for average but at the first opportunity I will try and find room for him in Salt Lake. The problem for both Blackshire and Basham are they are not on the 40 man roster and I really don't have room for them. If I can't do something for Basham soon I think I will try and deal him to a PCL club. He is 32 and has played just 55 major league games. I just feel he deserves a shot in the bigs somewhere.

Great news on the financial front. A couple of teams have put in a claim for Christopher Boyd. The 36 year old second baseman is earning nearly $5 million this season and I have him in AAA mainly because I am carrying a Rule V infielder on the big club. He is in the final year of his contract but I have enough middle infielders that I will gladly let him go and save some cash.


PLAYER TRACKER
Time for an update on the top 4 picks of the draft

1 - Brad Cousin - Hitting .348 with 3 homers and 13 rbi's for San Francisco's Class A team, the San Jose Giants.

2- David McMullin - talked about him a paragraph or two ago. He struggled at AA but homered in his Class A debut with St George.

3- Tommy Clauson - A perfect 3-0 with a 1.75 era in 25 innings work for Houston's Class A team, the Lubbock Steers.

4- Samuel Williams - Hitting just .196 for the Flagstaf Flags, Albuquerque's class A affiliate . He does have 4 homers in 14 games, however.
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Old 05-02-2004, 08:43 PM   #52
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Wednesday May 3, 1952
Another win as reserve 2B Mark Navas has a 3-hit game and Arthur Baxter improves his record to 2-0 in a 5-3 win over New Orleans. It was the first loss for Pelicans hurler Odis Fickes, who started the season 4-0. The 26 year old Fickes is a real success story. He was a 4th round draft pick in 1949 and went 10-11 as a minor leaguer that season. He blossomed over the winter and in 1950 he was 3-0 at AAA when the Pelicans promoted him to the big leagues. The Jacksonville, Florida native went 17-14 as a rookie and followed that up with an unbelievable 22-2 campaign a year ago. Nice to see a mid-round pick with such a high upside.

Thursday May 4, 1952
The streak comes to a crashing halt as New Orleans hammers us 9-3. Veteran Gary Roache makes his final start in a Bees uniform. The pitcher dropped to 0-3 with a 11.05 era on the season after allowing 6 runs in 5 innings work. Roache will be sent to AAA in a couple of days, as soon as all of our pitchers are healthy.

Firday May 5, 1952
Harry Carter suffers his first loss as the Pelicans edge us 5-4. Carter got little in the way of support as we managed just 5 hits on the day, but two of them were homers from Jody Gautreau and Jeff Swaney. For Swaney it was his second homer in two days and ran his hitting streak to 6 games since he was handed the starting centerfield job.

Saturday May 6, 1952
Another 1-run loss as the Pelicans score 3 in the bottom of the eighth and hang on for a 6-5 win. Daniel Esparza had 3 hits, including a homer, and drove in 3 runs to lead our offense. Swaney improved his hitting streak to 7 games with a single. Edward Artman took the loss and his record falls to 2-3 with a 5.40 era.

Around the league, Edward Rollins tossed a 2-hit shutout as Kansas City blanked Phoenix 2-0. The Blues are now in first place. Here are the standings:


Team W L PCT GB
Kansas City 12 7 .632 -
Denver 10 7 .588 1.0
Phoenix 9 8 .529 2.0
New Orleans 10 10 .500 2.5
Salt Lake City 9 9 .500 2.5
Alburquerque 8 9 .471 3.0
Houston 8 10 .444 3.5
Dallas 7 13 .350 5.5



As soon as I demote pitcher Gary Roache I will be recalling SS Michael Desrochers. Desrochers struggled in April before getting sent down to San Antonio but he has been a man on a mission for Missions, batting .423 with a .559 obp in 8 games.

At AA Topeka, Andrew Sistrunk is still struggling. He is 2-for-20 since his promotion from St George. Super prospect Manny Amaral took a loss in his Class AA debut. He gave up 4 earned runs in 8 innings working, surrendering 9 hits, walking 3 and getting 5 strikeouts.

At Class A St George, 2nd round pick Randell Elzy is still just 1-0 despite pitching 27 innings in 3 starts and having an era of 1.00. He only has one complete game so the bullpen must have lost a couple in extra innings. I am getting a little worried about first round pick David McMullin. After batting just .139 in AA he is just 2-for-10 since he demotion to A ball.



Sunday May 7, 1952
We wrap up a long 5 game series in New Orleans by beating the Pelicans 3-2. For the second time in less than a week Arthur Baxter outduels Odis Fickes. Baxter throws 8 innings of 5 hit ball allowing just 1 run. We give John Sanders the chance to close it out in the ninth but Sanders falters, allowing a run and having men on first and second when James Green is called on take over. Green strikes out the only man he faces to end the game. It was Green's first appearance in a week and a half since suffering a minor elbow injury.

Third baseman Daniel Esparza's 2 run triple in the first inning was the key to our offense. Esparza also drove in the final run with a sac fly. Jeff Swaney scored on the sac fly after hitting a single in the 8th inning to run his hitting streak to 8 games.

Gary Roache refuses a demotion to AAA so I plan on releasing him until I see it will cost me $2 million to do so. Instead I place him on the trading block and waivers in a last ditch effort to see if someone will take a problem away from me. I am not counting on it. As a result, Michael Desrochers will spend 3 more days in AAA before I waive Roache and recall him.

My scout Russell Reeve, reccomends demoting Drew Traynor and Brant Tedeschi from AA Topeka. Traynor has a 5.33 era and at 24 appears to have just about worn out his stay in the organization. Same for 25 year old outfielder Tedeschi who is hitting just .135 after batting .237 in A ball a year ago.
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Old 05-02-2004, 10:34 PM   #53
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Its just May, no need to get frustrated with your prospects yet
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Old 05-05-2004, 12:34 AM   #54
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Monday May 8, 1952
A travel day for us as we leave New Orleans and head for Houston and a 4 game set with the Buffaloes. Following Houston we head to Kansas City so I thought I would use the off-day to scout the Blues in their game against New Orleans.

At 12-8, the Blues are percentage points behind first place Denver (11-7). New Orleans is 2.5 games off the pace and sporting a 10-11 record. Kansas City is the class of the Mountain League, having won 4 pennants in a row and 6 in the past 8 years.

I was hoping we would get to see Kansas City's superstar pitcher Emmitt Provost on the mound but instead it will be rookie Tracy Bailey for the Blues. Bailey (2-2) was a rule V draft pick from Vancouver of the PCL. Joseph Jacobs, who beat my Salt Lake City Bees in his last start, toes the rubber for the visiting Pelicans.

It is a tremendous pitching duel through 7 innings as the score is tied at 1 and each club has managed just 3 hits but the Pelicans blow it open with 3 runs in the top of the 8th and win 6-2. I was extremely impressed with Bailey's effort, particularily considering he was never given a chance in Vancouver, a club that is not that deep in pitching.

Meanwhile, Denver shortstop Ben Schmitz was named the player of the week. Schmitz was 11-for-22 with 7 homers and 14 rbi's. He had a 3-homer game against New Orleans last Tuesday. On the season he is 4th in the Mountain League with a .353 average. He also has 9 homers and 21 rbi's good for second place in each of those categories.

One note from Salt Lake. Michael Desrochers has been recalled from San Antonio.


Tuesday May 9, 1952

HOUSTON SCOUTING REPORT - I thought I would take a quick look at the top players I will be facing as I square off against a new opponent each series. Houston finished 7th a year ago and the Buffaloes have not had a .500 team since winning the Mountain League pennant in 1945.

Their best pitcher is Robert Judah, a 34 year old from Elgin, Illinois who has won at least 20 games each of the past 3 seasons. He began his career with Seattle of the PCL but signed as a free agent with the Buffaloes a year ago. He is 3-3 so far this season and we will likely face him on Thursday. The rest of their rotation is mediocre at best. Today's starter John Borkowski was 18-16 a year ago. He actually spent a season with the Bees in 1950 before being traded to Houston for Gary Roache.

The Houston offense revolves around it's corner infielders. First baseman Raymond Bast hit 45 homers and made his first career allstar team a year ago. The 26-year old El Paso native is leading the Mountain League with 10 roundtrippers so far this season. Third baseman Albert Chandler hit .342 for Hollywood a year ago and is one of two key free agent pickups for the Buffaloes. The other one is second baseman Scott Huber, who hit 42 homers for Oakland last year but is batting just .188 this season.


We pull out a 3-1 victory despite a terrific effort on the mound from Houston starter John Borkowksi, who has a 1-hitter through 7 before we score 3 in the 8th. Jeff Swaney singled in the rally inning to extend his hitting streak to 9 games. Richard Johnson allowed 1-run on 4 hits through 7 innings to improve his record to 2-1. James Green retired the final 6 hitters for his third save.


After the game catcher William Ludlow complained to me about his playing time. Ludlow and Craig Gilliard have shared the catching duties almost equally and Gilliard is outhitting Ludlow. Ludlow is also making close to 7 million dollars a season on a contract with another year left after this season. In comparison, Gilliard is earning just over $1.1 million and is under contract 2 more seasons after this one. I think I may just put Ludlow on the trading block and see if I can get some decent young talent in return. My scout likes Ludlow much more than Gilliard but Gilliard, at 34 is a year younger, and much cheaper.


No one would bite on Gary Roache off the waiver wire so I have released him and been forced to eat over $2 million in contract money. With an opening on my active roster I call up 3B Tim Basham. The 32 year old Bollingbrook, Illinois native hit 50 homers at AAA San Antonio a year ago. He has 6 in 20 games so far this season with the Missions. He has played just 55 major league games in his career and has 3 homers and a .243 career average. I will give him the occassional start spelling Daniel Esparza but for the most part he will be a pinch-hitter.


Wednesday May 10
I guess William Ludlow is a man on a mission. After demanding more playing time and being placed on the trading block he drives in the tying run in the top of the ninth and the winning run in the 14th as we beat Houston 4-3. Jeff Swaney got two more hits and now has a 10 game streak going. Houston first baseman Raymond Bast homered in his 6th straight game.
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Old 05-07-2004, 03:37 PM   #55
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Thursday May 11, 1952
Raymond 'Buffalo' Bast goes yard for the 7th straight game as Houston beats us 5-3. Bast's 2-run shot in the bottom of the 6th gave Houston a 3-1 lead at the time. We responded with a pair of runs in the 8th but Houston broke the tie on another homer, this one from Scott Huber after we walked Bast. Adrian Martorell (1-1) took the loss in relief of Edward Artman, who allowed 3 earned runs in 7 innings work. Jeff Swaney went 0-for-4 to end his hitting streak at 10 games.

Friday May 12, 1952
A 6-3 victory in Houston allows us to take 3 of 4 from the Buffaloes. 2B Cesar Alvarez had 3 hits including a homer to pace the Bees. Jody Gautreau, with a homer, Craig Gilliard and William Broussard each had 2 hit games.

Arthur Baxter went the distance to improve his record to a perfect 4-0. He allowed 3 runs on 8 hits. Two of those hits came off the bat of the red-hot Raymond Bast but the Houston 1B did not homer, snapping his streak at 7 games with a home run.


In the minors, outfielder David McMullin hit his second homer and raised his average to .222 at Class A St. George. My scout feels McMullin is ready to try his hand at AA once again but I think I will wait a few more days. The Utes have the best record in their league thanks to a strong offense led by 3B Michael Gilman (.369,5,19) and OF Wyatt Jones (.272,2,15). Both Gilman and Jones are possibilities to eventually play for the big club but at 24 and 23 years of age respectively they are longshots. 20 year old pitcher Emory Macey is now 3-1 with a 2.45 era. He was not considered a prospect at all but his stats are outstanding...22 k's and just 2 walks in 29 innings work. 18 year old first round pick Jason Bufford also warrants further attention. The 5th round pick this season is 2-1 with 4 saves and a 1.46 era.

A step up the ladder to AA and we see that top flight prospect Andrew Sistrunk is starting to get comfortable in Topeka. He is now batting .237 after going 7 for 18 in the past week.

An injury to AAA infielder Carl Blackshire has derailed his chance for a promotion. Blackshire hurt his elbow and will be out for at least a week.

Our road trip continues as we head to Kansas City for 4 games beginning tomorrow. The first game will have us facing 4-time King Hurler Award winner Emmitt Provost, who is 6-0 with a 1.95 era.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:47 AM   #56
Skywalker76
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Your thread made me start a fictional league aswell. I've never been adicted to fictional leagues but now I'll give it a shot. Did you use any logos for your league ?
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:37 PM   #57
Tiger Fan
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Yes, some real nice ballcap logos most of which were made by several talented people on the mods board. I got the hat insignia ideas and team colours from www.ballcap.com

Here is my Salt Lake City Bees logo based on the hat the Bees wore in the PCL in the early seventies.
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:55 PM   #58
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Amazing as usual!!
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:19 AM   #59
Dargone
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Great thread...
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Old 05-11-2004, 05:31 AM   #60
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nice read..
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