arguing

[Whitey]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Whitey
[B]If anybody has the gumption and time to do a study on this, here is a good site that lists ejections from 2000 to 2002. This even tells you the inning they were tossed. Now one would need boxscores from these games to see what happened afterward.

http://www.ejections.homestead.com/

Actually this site only started keeping inning ejected to start the 2002 season and something evidently happened to the site manager because he abruptly stopped tracking them.

However, this site does show that there were 237 player and manager ejections in 2001 and 211 in 2000. We can at least see from this that ejections need to be a part of any baseball sim. In some manner anyway.

[JPWagner]

Originally posted by ghillsbaseball
Ok, i didnt want to read everything in this thread because its boring...but you guys that say that a manager getting tossed out of a game does not pump up the team have never played baseball at any level. You see your manager run out there and start yelling at the umpire and see him defending his team, you wanna win that game FOR your manager. Trust me, you get pumped after a coach or manager gets ejected.

That's all well and good, but we are talking about OOTP here and the original posters question...... and since no one on the development team has come forward and said that getting tossed in OOTP has some concrete result, either negative or positive, on gameplay, then it's still a mundane feature...

[Brick]

In my experience, if I don't argue a blown call, then the pitcher gives a home run. Maybe it's supposed to show you're in the players' corner. I don't worry so much for a position player. He's less likely to hurt me if he's too angry to hit well.

[NoxiousDog]

Originally posted by purduerowdy
exactly. thats what i been trying to say

So you're trying to tell us, that major leaguers are not playing at 100% until their manager gets ejected?

[Gastric ReFlux]

Originally posted by NoxiousDog
So you're trying to tell us, that major leaguers are not playing at 100% until their manager gets ejected?

Don't be silly. He means that they don't start playing 110% until the manager gets tossed.

[dougaiton]

Does too much leadership on the field remove the pumping recieved after the manager get thrown out? 'Shucks, we got several more where he came from'.

What if your manager is, to be frank, an arse? Does your team lose heart thinking he'll be there in the clubhouse waiting when they come back?

[Hoiles]

I have no idea if arguing calls really affects gameplay; the one thing that I know getting thrown out accomplishes is to so you can get the rest of the game quick-simmed and still say you play out all the games.

[dougaiton]

^^^^Bang on!

[ghillsbaseball]

Originally posted by NoxiousDog
So you're trying to tell us, that major leaguers are not playing at 100% until their manager gets ejected?

I was saying that when you are playing and your manager gets tossed, your intensity goes up, you go that extra 10% to get the win. Of course you cant just hit a switch and become a better hitter or pitcher, but if you are having a lackadaisical (SP?) day, possible with long schedules of baseball seasons, it can give you that extra push needed to play to your best ability.

[LAH]

Originally posted by JPWagner
This had been a running thread in OOTP forums ever since the feature had been added...I do not want to see any artificial performance hike in your team because you fired up your players by getting tossed.....perhaps the arguing should be a bit more specific and give you a choice, such as:

"Bonds is arguing with the ump over the call"

Now you would have the prompt whether you want to go out and intercede or not. You run the risk of being tossed, but you protected Bonds....failure to come out might increase the chance of a player getting tossed....and there could also be times when you both get thrown out of the game...conversely, you might just let the player argue because you dont want to lose your control of the team and he isn't important enough to protect...this method at least shows you a cause and effect of arguing and not leave it in the OOTP ether.....

That is a good idea.

[LAH]

Originally posted by ghillsbaseball
I was saying that when you are playing and your manager gets tossed, your intensity goes up, you go that extra 10% to get the win. Of course you cant just hit a switch and become a better hitter or pitcher, but if you are having a lackadaisical (SP?) day, possible with long schedules of baseball seasons, it can give you that extra push needed to play to your best ability.

I think that is impossible to prove and such a change would lead to it being used unrealistically, IMO.

[crackpott]

Originally posted by LAH
That is a good idea.

Originally posted by Henry
This is the best option offered so far.

Henry

I say the idea over and over and no one cares.

[Henry]

Originally posted by crackpott
I say the idea over and over and no one cares.

It's still the best idea out there. I don't like the idea of coding some kind of win-loss effect based on an arguement with the umpire or coding some kind of variance on his next call.

No one knows if arguements have any effects - they are simply the need to "vent" in a real world situation, yet part of the baseball experience.

JP has come up with an idea that gives more reason to the event without effecting the next decision of the umpire or the game results (directly)... I like it.

Henry

[ctorg]

I like it too.

[purduerowdy]

it's like the 2-pt conversion arguement in football. statistically, it should be better to go for 2 each time, but no coach will do it.

in baseball, you might not be able to statistically correlate the effect of arguing with bad calls to wins, but it DOES make a difference for some players. Like i said previously, it would be incredibly difficult to code for this i think, but you can't just say that a manager getting booted has no effect on the play of his team. It does.

[Henry]

Originally posted by purduerowdy
it's like the 2-pt conversion arguement in football. statistically, it should be better to go for 2 each time, but no coach will do it.

in baseball, you might not be able to statistically correlate the effect of arguing with bad calls to wins, but it DOES make a difference for some players. Like i said previously, it would be incredibly difficult to code for this i think, but you can't just say that a manager getting booted has no effect on the play of his team. It does.

I don't dispute the concept, but I think it would be a major error to try and guess at what that variance would be. In order to do so, you would have to have statistics on all games managers got thrown out of and summarize the game results both before and after the toss. I don't see that amount of work (if even possible) being worth the results.

Henry

[purduerowdy]

Originally posted by Henry
I don't dispute the concept, but I think it would be a major error to try and guess at what that variance would be. In order to do so, you would have to have statistics on all games managers got thrown out of and summarize the game results both before and after the toss. I don't see that amount of work (if even possible) being worth the results.

Henry

yeah, i see this as a possible OOTP15 addition or something. its a ways off. it will take one of the insane folks in this forum to track it statistically for like 5 yrs before you can actually do it.

My main point is just that it does effect the game, and i'm not sure why some on this board seem to think it doesnt.

even so, somewhere before ootp15 it might be nice to have an option to have it influence the game or not... with the full knowledge that the influence is based on personal observation as opposed to actual stats. maybe even a user-set factor for how often it effects a player. not sure how hard this would be to incorporate.

[NoxiousDog]

Originally posted by ghillsbaseball
I was saying that when you are playing and your manager gets tossed, your intensity goes up, you go that extra 10% to get the win. Of course you cant just hit a switch and become a better hitter or pitcher, but if you are having a lackadaisical (SP?) day, possible with long schedules of baseball seasons, it can give you that extra push needed to play to your best ability.

What if it's a clutch situation? Does the manager ejection bonus apply then?

[obaslg]

I was saying that when you are playing and your manager gets tossed, your intensity goes up, you go that extra 10% to get the win.

I hate to contribute to this thread, but I had to point out that you essentially just stated in earnest what Gastric had had said sarcastically. That was funny.

[PSUColonel]

honestly, I'd say just scrap the feature..It doesn't really do much for anyone anyway.