Maddux is going to the Yankees

[CommishJoe]

Originally posted by SoxWin
162 games left to go.




I still take my guys.




Let's Get. It. On.

Now that's the SoxWin we all know and love

[AnotherAlias]

Originally posted by Mike D
I still hold out hope that Maddux won't go to the American League because he would have to learn new hitters, and that would greatly reduce his performance. Being that I'm a Cubs fan, it wouldn't surprise me to see sign with anyone but Chicago. I still think he'll be in blue this summer, than pinstripes. But if the Yanks do sign him, then yeah, they'll trade Contreras to their farm system in the great white north, and call up Vidro.

He'd be an idiot to go to the AL. Chicks dig power hitting pitchers. He won't get much of a chance to pick up a bat in the AL.

If he does go there, we might see some Cub fan put a hit out on him.

[JerseyPride]

Originally posted by GForce22
Yup, I've confirmed this at work as well.

Is anyone really surprised?

GH

Where the hell do you work? Are you secretly working for the Yankees organization possibly King George's right hand man?

[congobeast]

My unsolicited opinion:

Ground ball pitchers with the porous left-center of the Yankee infield: bad.
Historically, Greg Maddux has been a ground-out pitcher.

All the talent in the world will not save his ERA, BF, or pitch count if the defense behind him can't get anyone out. More AB means the aging Maddux won't go deep into games. Short starts mean more pressure on the pen, which is not deep to begin with. Yankees opponents score more runs, Yankees need their offensive additions just to keep up.

I think, win-wise, a Maddux signing is a push for NY.

[sixto]

By the way, you know what's real funny is, I think Maddux (even with Jeter) can win 20 games in New York. He's not Clemens, but I just have this sense that it would be a magic connection.

The other funny thing is, A-Rod is going to struggle to hit 40 HR in Yankee Stadium...the coming .280/38/108 season, which isn't bad and would be great coming from just about anybody, will draw RAVE BOOS from the New York press, who don't know a thing about ballpark effects. This ain't Arlington.

[draven085]

MLB is becoming a ****ing joke right in front of our eyes. As discussed in several other threads, New York City needs one or two more teams to neutralize some of the Yankees' natural market advantage. Some days I really wish another viable major league would pop up and challenge MLB's supremacy. At this point I might be willing to give it a shot.

[congobeast]

Originally posted by sixto
By the way, you know what's real funny is, I think Maddux (even with Jeter) can win 20 games in New York. He's not Clemens, but I just have this sense that it would be a magic connection.

The other funny thing is, A-Rod is going to struggle to hit 40 HR in Yankee Stadium...the coming .280/38/108 season, which isn't bad and would be great coming from just about anybody, will draw RAVE BOOS from the New York press, who don't know a thing about ballpark effects. This ain't Arlington.

I tend to agree on both counts.

With the Yankee lineup, over the long season, even a pretty good SP can win a lot of games. Good offense can make up for defensive liabilities over the long haul. With 5 IP and a maintained lead being good enough for a "W", I agree that Maddux could be good for 20. I think 12-15 is more likely though- I expect the middle relief and set-up teams will blow more than their share of leads on Maddux, costing him a win, whether or not the team as a whole gets the "W".

On the press- Seems like the press in the big markets (NY, LA, Boston, etc) seem to jump on 'down' years by players quicker than flies to crap; even when those 'down' years really aren't so down, or when there is good reason. Pitchers in Boston and NY seem to have thier ERAs inflate (go figure!), whereas power-alley batters seem to have career-worst years in parks like Chavez Ravine. Why? Just look at the park! Thing is, Joe Average on the street doesn't understand that 30 HR with half a year in Dodger Stadium is rather like 40 elsewhere. Likewise, the Monster and the right field porch at Yankee stadium cost a bundle of runs to fly-out pitchers- Jeff Weaver anyone? That same Joe Average that just doesn't grasp that fact is also the guy that buys those newspapers and watches those local news shows... so the press is geared towards him. Its sad, really; but true.

Predictions:
* Sixto is pretty close to being on the money with regards to A-Rod's NYY stats.

* Jeff Weaver has a career year in LA, going 15-8 with a 3.44 ERA.

* Greg Maddux gets a nice 16-10 campaign, but a less-than-stellar 4.58 ERA, and only 10 or so QS.

[CommishJoe]

Originally posted by congobeast
Short starts mean more pressure on the pen, which is not deep to begin with.

uhh .. Quantrill, Gordon, White, Karsay make up a pretty deep bullpen.

No matter though. I would expect to see Maddux in Chicago. This is probably Boras' doing to try to drive up his price.

[congobeast]

Originally posted by draven085
As discussed in several other threads, New York City needs one or two more teams to neutralize some of the Yankees' natural market advantage.

I doubt it would make a difference. Fans love a winner. The Yankees win.

One could make the same argument about the Lakers. There is another team in town- they just happen to suck. You don't see the crowds gravitating to the Clips just because there's another team in town- they need to be competitive as well. Just being there isn't good enough.

[congobeast]

Originally posted by CommishJoe
uhh .. Quantrill, Gordon, White, Karsay make up a pretty deep bullpen.

Sorry. I don't see the same depth you do there.
Quantrill is a pretty decent setup man, yep. Yankee Stadium won't help him, nor will the Yankee D. The past two years, he's been in Dodger Stadium, with a strong D behind him. His effectiveness will suffer some.

Gordon and White are career journeymen in the twilight of thier careers. Karsay's shoulder is a massive question mark. He could be good; or his shoulder might be a slinky. More likely, he'll be somewhere in between; and with only an inning or so a game, that might not be good enough to to get to Rivera.

Five years ago, I think I'd agree with you- this would have been a good, deep pen. I don't think that's the case in 2004.

Of course, with 162 games to go, who knows for sure? YMMV.

[draven085]

Originally posted by congobeast
I doubt it would make a difference. Fans love a winner. The Yankees win.

One could make the same argument about the Lakers. There is another team in town- they just happen to suck. You don't see the crowds gravitating to the Clips just because there's another team in town- they need to be competitive as well. Just being there isn't good enough.

You're assuming any other teams in NY would suck. I don't see why one has to assume that. A new team in NY could just as easily be successful.

[congobeast]

Originally posted by draven085
You're assuming any other teams in NY would suck. I don't see why one has to assume that. A new team in NY could just as easily be successful.

They could be. Absolutely.
The problem here lies in the root problem behind the whole discussion- the Yankees finances. As long as they can outspend and win, how is another team going to make headway? It's gonna be hard to field a winner, when the new teams would have to compete with the Yankees for the local dollars. Impossible? Nope. An awful tough hill to climb? You betcha.

Witness: the hapless NY Mets.
(With apolgies to Pete.)

[matskralc]

Originally posted by draven085
You're assuming any other teams in NY would suck. I don't see why one has to assume that. A new team in NY could just as easily be successful.

I thought the other team in NY did suck.

[AnotherAlias]

I think this rumor was a bit premature.*



*famous last words...

[draven085]

Originally posted by congobeast
They could be. Absolutely.
The problem here lies in the root problem behind the whole discussion- the Yankees finances. As long as they can outspend and win, how is another team going to make headway? It's gonna be hard to field a winner, when the new teams would have to compete with the Yankees for the local dollars. Impossible? Nope. An awful tough hill to climb? You betcha.

Witness: the hapless NY Mets.
(With apolgies to Pete.)

I seem to remember a subway World Series in the not too distant past.

If I were in charge of MLB I'd put a new team in Brooklyn to capitalize on NY's inter-borough rivalry. Hell, I'd consider putting a team in New Jersey as well if you could find a decent location for them.

[sixto]

To put a team in New Jersey you'd have to place it I believe more than 100 miles from New York and Philadelphia. Suitable locations like Newark, New Brunswick, the Meadowlands, Woodbridge, are all ruled out. In fact does any part of New Jersey fall more than 100 miles from New York or Philly? I don't think it does.

But hey, maybe the commissioner will step in on the grounds of what's in the best interest of baseball!

[draven085]

Originally posted by sixto
To put a team in New Jersey you'd have to place it I believe more than 100 miles from New York and Philadelphia. Suitable locations like Newark, New Brunswick, the Meadowlands, Woodbridge, are all ruled out. In fact does any part of New Jersey fall more than 100 miles from New York or Philly? I don't think it does.

But hey, maybe the commissioner will step in on the grounds of what's in the best interest of baseball!

Yeah, I wasn't really thinking in the real world context of MLB, but rather in a hypothetical situation. I can see it now: Sixto and DRaven as co-gm of the New Jersey Geasers.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally posted by draven085
Yeah, I wasn't really thinking in the real world context of MLB, but rather in a hypothetical situation. I can see it now: Sixto and DRaven as co-gm of the New Jersey Geasers.

Hey! Can I have a job? I'd love to get out of here.

I could be clubhouse manager. I'll supply the Geritol.

[congobeast]

Originally posted by draven085
I seem to remember a subway World Series in the not too distant past.

You bet. But how were the Mets before that, from, say '89 - 2000? How about the Subway Series?
There's a whole lot of sucking going on.

[draven085]

Originally posted by congobeast
You bet. But how were the Mets before that, from, say '89 - 2000? How about the Subway Series?
There's a whole lot of sucking going on.

That's due to poor management, not because of having to compete with the Yankees and failing. The Mets sported one of the highest payrolls in the league for the past few years. That doesn't do a whole lot for your argument.