cheating the system?

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

Thank you!

I've only said that I don't think any of it is breaking the rules several times because I truly don't and want to make that clear. I'm sorry if it has been interpreted any other way. I have put $$$ into games before, I have gotten codes for games before, and I have played games where people tanked all the time without anyone getting upset about. It is a natural way people develop when they are not strong enough for the next level. But in OOTP people who do this are the devil. I have done all three of them before with games outside of OOTP. And had no issue with any of them, just like I have no issue with any of them in OOTP. All three of them very much manipulate the gameplay in favor of whoever used them, but none of it was frowned upon in the games. That is why I am so intrigued that there is written rules that show that tanking and twitch drops are breaking the rules. But people get up in arms about the tanking but not the Twitch...

This post has become more about getting an understanding of peoples mindsets on why they think one rule break is wrong and another isn't. Not about me wanting to change anything about it, because I don't It is a great game!

First I will try to quickly present thought of your post, then have deeper reason of my posts, and explain why I truly don't care how people play. I agree people should enjoy the game how they want to.

I gathered a while ago that Twitch and OOTP are partners. They make each other $$$$$$$ so they are friends with one another. If the rule didn't state outside source or standard gameplay, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Twitch packs are not standard game play. Standard game play is tournaments, actual leagues, card shop, etc. (I've written rules for real life tournaments and leagues before, that is why these rules intrigued me, I'm the guy that people come to to clarify the rules, because nobody else read the rules). OOTP is kind of like a movie theatre.... Twitch is like kind of the candy store next door. that the movie theatre is partnered with. Don't bring in food from outside unless it is form the candy store next door. At one point both places realized they could help each other make $$$$$$$, and naturally most thing in life/games are about making $$$$$$$$$. That candy store is still and outside source though, OOTP simply hasn't said that the all stores except for Twitch.

Now is where I explain my thoughts of why I've discussed this. The main focus wasn't the rule itself, it is simply why people disregard the rule and it is encouraged. I don't care about that rule or even twitch itself. More power to the people who want to do it, I hope it helps them succeed, it seems like great avenue to assist people. Why do people get so upset and storm the fences if someone not strong enough to compete in stone league tanks to get back down to Rookie? It is literally a legit way for people to develop new skills (in real life). Mike Trout isn't ready for the bigs yet, send him back down to the Minors. If OOTP says Twitch is ok, than they should add it to the rules. When I develop guidelines/handbooks/etc. I go over them and have others go over them several times to make sure all rules are clear and covered. Each year I'd make sure to read it again to potentially make any adjustments. So that there would be no questioning the rules. Sadly the phrase "because I said so doesn't work"

Perfect team is a great game and I want no rule changes to it. I don't even care if they reword it to include twitch, I'm simply intrigued how nobody see's what I see. This whole thing became more about an understanding of peoples mindsets

As far as manipulating the game I think Tanking, Pay to Play and Twitch do it and to a degree are harmful to the standard game play But harmful in the sense that at a lose weight camp someone sneaks in a donuts, and someone else sneaks in twinkies. Both are in the laws of things to not have, but people are eating the donuts while angry at the people who brought the twinkies. I like twinkies and donuts, but if I was at that camp, I wouldn't touch either, or have a problem with people touching either. People have the same right to be at the camp as I do, but would be greatly intrigued in why people were so upset about the twinkies, when they had no problem with the donuts.

I truly want nothing to change with Perfect Team. I think it is a great game with a great community.

I hope this post made it more clear my intention of the posts.

Everyone play the game and enjoy it how they want

This whole thing kind of started because people are so upset about people tanking, but not about pay to play (I've read things where hate this), or twitch.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by TwinsFan86

Because getting drops from Twitch isn’t breaking the rules. It is a legitimate method in which OOTPD has decided to distribute packs to the player base. It’s not any different than buying PP, completing missions, or getting a card from the shop. Purposely not fielding a competitive team is very different than any of those other methods.

Mike Trout too strong for Minors, too week for Majors. In OOTP's eyes Trout going back down the majors is purposefully not fielding a competitive team, when he's not ready yet.

On a different thought pattern... Why even have the bottom teams be allowed to get sent back down? Bottom teams in the league have the edge over middle of the pack because, they get sent back down, destroy the competition again, get called back up, and gained more PP than the middle of the pack did. those bottom teams drop to lower level and wreck havoc?

I know that there are soccer leagues that do the drop and rise strategy.

MLB doesn't send the Oakland A's down to Triple A, if they did the A's would likely wreck havoc on the league.

[Ty Cobb]

You know, I've seen a lot of threads like this one come and get shut down. I really am pleased at the civil and moderate approach taken here. People are discussing differences, not going to war.

It's really a great thing, and y'all should be proud.

[TwinsFan86]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

Mike Trout too strong for Minors, too week for Majors. In OOTP's eyes Trout going back down the majors is purposefully not fielding a competitive team, when he's not ready yet.

On a different thought pattern... Why even have the bottom teams be allowed to get sent back down? Bottom teams in the league have the edge over middle of the pack because, they get sent back down, destroy the competition again, get called back up, and gained more PP than the middle of the pack did. those bottom teams drop to lower level and wreck havoc?

I know that there are soccer leagues that do the drop and rise strategy.

MLB doesn't send the Oakland A's down to Triple A, if they did the A's would likely wreck havoc on the league.

There’s a huge difference between a team being really strong at one level, but not quite strong enough to stay at the next level and a team that is clearly too strong for a level, but when it comes time for the playoffs suddenly runs a pitching staff of all 40 OVR cards so that they get eliminated and stay in their current level.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

You know, I've seen a lot of threads like this one come and get shut down. I really am pleased at the civil and moderate approach taken here. People are discussing differences, not going to war.

It's really a great thing, and y'all should be proud.

Thank you for this.

I am also pleased at the peacefulness of the post.

I greatly enjoy discussion, but become less pleased when aggression or name call enters during civil discussions, which sadly is a common occurrence in life including OOTP. Great topics and thoughts can be swept under the rug, simply because someone chose to be aggressive with their approach. People are not horrible/less smart people because they have a difference of opinion or want to learn something.

Discussion is key to growth. OOTP has a phenomenal community, I've learned a lot about the game from a source I didn't even know about a couple months ago.

Again, great game, think the devs have done a great job, and the community here very helpful!

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by TwinsFan86

There’s a huge difference between a team being really strong at one level, but not quite strong enough to stay at the next level and a team that is clearly too strong for a level, but when it comes time for the playoffs suddenly runs a pitching staff of all 40 OVR cards so that they get eliminated and stay in their current level.

Hmm... I appreciate your insight. What is the difference? Same exact team, just one won championship.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

Hmm... I appreciate your insight. What is the difference? Same exact team, just one won championship.

It's not so much the won championship. It's the early playoff exit that prevents promotion to the next higher level and keeps the team in a lower league where it might not belong. If you're consistently winning 100+ games at your current level then you should expect to get promoted in short order. Yes, you might have bad playoff luck for a few weeks, but your team is dominating its current level and clearly should be facing better competition.

The issue mentioned is one where a team runs out a league-average or better rotation, makes the playoffs, and then benches or sends its quality pitchers to the reserve roster, replacing them with crap cards that will all but ensure an early playoff exit and keep them at their current level. I haven't personally seen this, but I've seen variants involving player roles. I once found a team that would play its A roster when at the lower level and then switch to the B roster when it was promoted (inferior players to ensure relegation back to their prior level). There are all kinds of ways to cheat the system, and I imagine most of them have been figured out and used by someone sometime.

This is done to maximize performance achievements and hardware rewards and is not uncommon in the lowest-level leagues. There are a lot of teams that stay in Stone and Rookie league for months, and not all of them are abandoned. Some of them purposely stay there for the reward points and, I guess, for the "thrill" of beating weak competition.

[rburgh]

Some people understand that no card that is available in late September will have any relevance whatsoever by December. So they choose to save their PP's to buy players who matter.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by rburgh

Some people understand that no card that is available in late September will have any relevance whatsoever by December. So they choose to save their PP's to buy players who matter.

True, but this is a process that continues throughout the year. The April meta cards are worthless by the All-Star break, and the All-Star break metas are worthless by late September. I see no point to tanking now in order to have extra points later. Where's the thrill in hoarding points so that you can make a run in February, when half the players have shut it down in anticipation of the next release? Or to put it another way, where's the thrill in dominating Stone level every week in July or September? Hardly a mark of achievement, and you can do it just as well by starting a new team at those points.

[Samueltbaum]

I think at this point the conversation would simply go in circles in a topic I care very little about.

My main focus was to get peoples mindsets. I got this to a degree, but don't think I'll get much more out of the current thought.

I appreciate everyone's insight, thank you for the discussion.

I hope everyone continues to enjoy the game how they like to enjoy the game!

[Socali]

On the other hand...

THANK YOU, OOTP, for providing free PP via Twitch (et, al) for those who cannot compete at the same level with high dollar P2W. (btw, who said you have to take the time to actually watch for twitch drops?)

Me thinks gratitude for free PP is a better side to err on then to suggest it is somehow a "cheat."

[rburgh]

Gratitude is so unusual on these boards.

[Samueltbaum]

I suppose, I hadn't specifically said thank you OOTP, but a large majority of my posts have a thank you to somebody.

To go along with this, I have said numerous times over all of my posts, that OOTP has created an amazing game and want nothing to change from it.

[Samueltbaum]

If ever on OOTP Developer posted on one of my threads, the first thing out of my mouth would be. Thank you for all the time and work you put into it, you all have created a phenomenal game.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

If ever on OOTP Developer posted on one of my threads, the first thing out of my mouth would be. Thank you for all the time and work you put into it, you all have created a phenomenal game.

Thanks for the kind words!

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Thanks for the kind words!

Thank you for your hard work. You and your team have created a phenomenal game!