Who's Cy Young? - Page 3

draven085 · 04-30-2003, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Plutoro
Which is EXACTLY what makes them so valuble. Not having to worry abotu getting 2 run leads because your closer can hold 1 run lead.

I know there arn't many real good ones (Urbina, Rivera, hoffman, perceival, izzy, gagne, wagner (?)) but when you get a good one it makes everything less strenuous. Your hitters dont have to go out of there way to score more, stick to what they k now. You pitchers dont have to go 9 innings and you dont have to worry about going x-tra innings every other game.

Urbina? A really good one? Obviously you aren't a sox fan and didn't have to sit through watching him pitch the last year and a half. He's an average closer at best. Bottom line, these guys pitch 60-70 innings a year in most cases and thanks to LaRussa's genius, they aren't even the high leverage innings that Sutter, Gossage, and Fingers used to pitch. How many runs a year can they possibly save in those few innings, even if they are "more important" innings, which I'm not sure I buy either.....

cooper_gd · 04-30-2003, 09:48 AM

coming in with a 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 run lead now is like coming in with a 1 run lead in the 70's or any other previous era...

the most obnoxious thing in baeball is the increased HR, lowered mound, and lack of strategy... IMO. I want the day of the dominant pitcher and real superstarts <sniff>

CubsSox · 04-30-2003, 11:31 AM

Closers are in a sense overrated, because of the thought that its not hard to find someone that get can those last three outs. But in a way, I disagree with that statement because this is era of starting pitchers usually leaving after throwing five or six innings... it seems like the job of the bullpen is more important.

mad0die · 04-30-2003, 02:44 PM

And I don't think math can tell the whole story. Players and managers often talk about the psychological benefit that a good closer can have on your team when you know the 9th is by and large a done inning. Math is nice, but it doesn't prove everything...

draven085 · 04-30-2003, 03:02 PM

I think its funny that the game of baseball got along for 100 some odd years without having a closer and now all of a sudden you have to have one. Someone said something about the last time a team won without one...how about Arizona in '01? BK didn't start the year as a closer....and he sucked in the world series anyway. How about the 97 Marlins..they had Nen but he sucked...an ERA of almost 4 and a WHIP of over 1.5. Some stopper. Besides, as Rob Neyer said, everyone has a closer now so it would be kind of hard to win a title without one....kinda like saying "when was the last time a team won a world series without a first baseman?"

fantom1979 · 04-30-2003, 04:24 PM

Closers who have won the Cy Young Award:

1992 Eckersley (MVP)
1989 Mark Davis
1987 Steve Bedrosian
1984 Willie Hernandez (MVP)
1981 Rollie Fingers (MVP)
1979 Bruce Sutter
1977 Sparky Lyle
1974 Mike Marshall

Its just funny that it seems that a relief pitcher won the cy young about every three years from 74 to 92, but hasnt happened since.

04-30-2003, 09:48 AM	#42
cooper_gd All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: PopBunker.net Posts: 1,011	coming in with a 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 run lead now is like coming in with a 1 run lead in the 70's or any other previous era... the most obnoxious thing in baeball is the increased HR, lowered mound, and lack of strategy... IMO. I want the day of the dominant pitcher and real superstarts <sniff> __________________

04-30-2003, 11:31 AM	#43
CubsSox Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 206	Closers are in a sense overrated, because of the thought that its not hard to find someone that get can those last three outs. But in a way, I disagree with that statement because this is era of starting pitchers usually leaving after throwing five or six innings... it seems like the job of the bullpen is more important. __________________ It's me... Chae!

04-30-2003, 02:44 PM	#44
mad0die All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: TX Posts: 913	And I don't think math can tell the whole story. Players and managers often talk about the psychological benefit that a good closer can have on your team when you know the 9th is by and large a done inning. Math is nice, but it doesn't prove everything... __________________ Commish GUBA

04-30-2003, 04:24 PM	#46
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	Closers who have won the Cy Young Award: 1992 Eckersley (MVP) 1989 Mark Davis 1987 Steve Bedrosian 1984 Willie Hernandez (MVP) 1981 Rollie Fingers (MVP) 1979 Bruce Sutter 1977 Sparky Lyle 1974 Mike Marshall Its just funny that it seems that a relief pitcher won the cy young about every three years from 74 to 92, but hasnt happened since. __________________

04-30-2003, 03:02 PM	#45
draven085 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,074	I think its funny that the game of baseball got along for 100 some odd years without having a closer and now all of a sudden you have to have one. Someone said something about the last time a team won without one...how about Arizona in '01? BK didn't start the year as a closer....and he sucked in the world series anyway. How about the 97 Marlins..they had Nen but he sucked...an ERA of almost 4 and a WHIP of over 1.5. Some stopper. Besides, as Rob Neyer said, everyone has a closer now so it would be kind of hard to win a title without one....kinda like saying "when was the last time a team won a world series without a first baseman?"