Spring Training

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

I micro-manage my minors down to the scrubs. There is a place for everyone and at times I have 6 plus minor league teams in the 1940s. It's not difficult it's tedious to have to resort the players year after year when spring training offers me nothing in return for that work. I can spend over an hour each year adjusting my minor league teams let alone if I'm using coaches.

You may ask why do I not sort after spring training. The reason is I want to know where everyone is before I draft so I can fill in holes if need be and see my weakness around my leagues. As to your 40-man roster assumption, you would be wrong in my case. I don't only pull players from the minors because they are the best players all around from the higher leagues. I will pull players from the minors that fit a role at the time and they can come from the lower leagues. The role most of the time is to fill in for injuries though there are other reasons too.

Fair enough.
I also pretty closely manage my minor leagues and have five levels of minors in my fictional league.
I'll admit that I don't entirely understand the logic as you have explained it here, given that in my experience any player who is 40-man roster worthy and could fill in on the active roster in case of injury would be wasted in lower levels of a minor league system and it would harm their development. But it's your game, play it your way.

[Greymantle]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Fair enough.
I also pretty closely manage my minor leagues and have five levels of minors in my fictional league.
I'll admit that I don't entirely understand the logic as you have explained it here, given that in my experience any player who is 40-man roster worthy and could fill in on the active roster in case of injury would be wasted in lower levels of a minor league system and it would harm their development. But it's your game, play it your way.

Your first assumption is that a lower-level minor league player is worthy of development. Here is one example I have a defense specialist that I will plug into a spot that is for say for 2 to 4 weeks only. I like to use defense to plug in holes for a short-term injury. I will also use a player that is not worthy with longer injuries if I'm trying to get the best draft pick I can get.

Now if I'm trying to win and I have a good rookie I can bring up during the season because of Injury I will if I feel he is ready. I could give you more examples but I get the feeling you will never understand how I play because it's not how you play.

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

I stopped using spring training because at the start of each spring training the AI will put all the players you have that have a contract on your roster. This includes all minor league players. If there is a way around this I couldn't find it so I stopped using spring training. I thought you would like to know if not never mind.

At the beginning of ST the AI places all players on your 40-man roster on your ST roster. This mirrors real life where there is not Active roster during the off-season only the 40-man roster so all 40-man roster players go to ST. If also causes players sent back to the minors during/after ST to use a MLB option, again mirroring MLB. The idea of options is to not allow a team to keep a player indefinitely while on the 40-man roster. You basically get 3 seasons (STs) to try out a guy and return him to the minors and after ST #4 you either keep him up of expose him to waivers to DFA him. Same usage of options if you add a guy to the 40 during the season and bring him up then send him down. Only 1 option is used per season.

edit: I'm not sure how things work if you are using reserve rosters

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

The argument you are making is it works for me. When my roster jumps from 25 to 38 because of spring training and I have to figure out where those 13 players were in the minors that I micromanage it becomes a pain for me. My argument is it doesn't work for me. I'm sure there are others out there that play like me and the reason for my post.

All you have to do is hover your mouse over the player, when the popup opens a quick glance will show you what level he played at last season. While you have your mouse pointer on the player, you can now right click and assign him to that level again.

Nothing hard to figure out doing it that way.

[Greymantle]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

All you have to do is hover your mouse over the player, when the popup opens a quick glance will show you what level he played at last season. While you have your mouse pointer on the player, you can now right click and assign him to that level again.

Nothing hard to figure out doing it that way.

Sigh...Yet another post that says it's easy. Yes, mousing over every player called up is easy but very tedious. May I ask why I should do this? What do I get out of Spring Training that I should go through this task every year after year after year? There is already a lot to micro-manage in this game and that is putting it mildly. Why should I add more to my game when it's not needed or am I missing something about Spring Training. What do I need to know that I have yet to see from this thread why I should use it? All I have seen so far, here is how I play and the way you play makes no sense, and or it's easy to get around the issue. The only thing that would make it easy is for me if I could click a button that returned all the players to where I had them. Now that would be easy.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

Your first assumption is that a lower-level minor league player is worthy of development. Here is one example I have a defense specialist that I will plug into a spot that is for say for 2 to 4 weeks only. I like to use defense to plug in holes for a short-term injury. I will also use a player that is not worthy with longer injuries if I'm trying to get the best draft pick I can get.

Now if I'm trying to win and I have a good rookie I can bring up during the season because of Injury I will if I feel he is ready. I could give you more examples but I get the feeling you will never understand how I play because it's not how you play.

I apologize if I've made you feel misunderstood. It wasn't my intention.
I hope you find an answer that satisfies you and makes this part of the game work better for you.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

Sigh...Yet another post that says it's easy. Yes, mousing over every player called up is easy but very tedious. May I ask why I should do this? What do I get out of Spring Training that I should go through this task every year after year after year? There is already a lot to micro-manage in this game and that is putting it mildly. Why should I add more to my game when it's not needed or am I missing something about Spring Training. What do I need to know that I have yet to see from this thread why I should use it? All I have seen so far, here is how I play and the way you play makes no sense, and or it's easy to get around the issue. The only thing that would make it easy is for me if I could click a button that returned all the players to where I had them. Now that would be easy.

I didn't say it was easy, but it certainly isn't difficult, or tedious. Takes less than 3 minutes to do a few mouse clicks for 13 players once a season. ST is optional, don't use it if you feel it's not worth it. I'm simply pointing out another way to solve your problem.

ST gets rust off, just like real life. OOTP does a good job of that - mimicking real life baseball.

OOTP's motto is - It's your game, play it your way. That's what most of us do. You should too.

Games like OOTP provide an enormous amount of depth and realism. Yes, it can be time consuming to accomplish some tasks, but for me that's a big part of the enjoyment. It mimics real life.

[Greymantle]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I didn't say it was easy, but it certainly isn't difficult, or tedious. Takes less than 3 minutes to do a few mouse clicks for 13 players once a season. ST is optional, don't use it if you feel it's not worth it. I'm simply pointing out another way to solve your problem.

ST gets rust off, just like real life. OOTP does a good job of that - mimicking real life baseball.

OOTP's motto is - It's your game, play it your way. That's what most of us do. You should too.

Games like OOTP provide an enormous amount of depth and realism. Yes, it can be time consuming to accomplish some tasks, but for me that's a big part of the enjoyment. It mimics real life.

I get this play your way and I play my way. And yet you still didn't give me a reason to play it your way. Why use spring training? In this thread, a lot of you come off at least to me that the way I play is somehow an attack on Spring Training. Why is it so important to you to use Spring Training? In all my playthrough using it I never saw anything it did to add to my game-play and or the quality of game-play. After many years in game of using it and screaming at the AI for bringing up players I didn't want them too I turned it off. I didn't see any value in it. I also turn off the All-Star Game (Never been a fan of it) and the Rule 5 Draft. I turn off the Rule 5 Draft because I feel it hurts the AI and helps me.

[Greymantle]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I apologize if I've made you feel misunderstood. It wasn't my intention.
I hope you find an answer that satisfies you and makes this part of the game work better for you.

If you read another thread I started about aging players I found that the game does not offer what I'm looking for in a replay. I will go with historic replay and recalc on with PD off. I would rather have a very close repeat of history than the other end where too many players don't perform as they did in real life. I feel Strat-O-Matic Baseball does a better job on historic replays and is a lot more fun to play. OOTP covers the finance, player development, and minors that Strat-O-Matic doesn't even cover and that is why I play OOTP at times.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

If you read another thread I started about aging players I found the the game does not offer what I'm looking for in a replay. I will go with historic replay and recalc on with PD off. I would rather have a very close repeat of history then the other end where to many players don't perform like they did in real life.

I hear you and admittedly since I play mostly strictly fictional these days my needs and concerns are very different than yours.
In answer to your question in a previous post though about what the point of using ST is, I think mostly you've been given very in-game reasons regarding knocking off rust, etc. All of which are true enough, but if you can play with ST off and not have these concerns factored in at all, then that seems like a good option for you. But for me, I will say that the primary reason I like to use ST is simply because for me it adds immersion to the game as even though I play fictional I do like my fictional baseball universe to mostly mirror real world baseball, at least in terms of MLB realities. So while I move pretty quickly through ST (and I am not someone who sims mostly but rather I move very day-by-day in my league, playing out all of my team's regular and post-season games), I still like to have the challenge of making sure that my primary active roster players get enough playing time to get ready for opening day while also giving some minor leaguers a chance to play with the major leaguers (I have found this seems to provide some measure of morale boost to minor leaguers who are getting a bit anxious to be elevated to the bigs, too) and I also enjoy (odd word for this) the possibility of injuries in ST games as it causes me to need to adjust when the regular season starts. So for me the biggest reason for using ST is that it adds to the fullness of immersion for me. But if it doesn't for you, and it just creates frustration for you, I think disabling it sounds like the right solution for you.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

I get this play your way and I play my way. And yet you still didn't give me a reason to play it your way. Why use spring training? In this thread, a lot of you come off at least to me that the way I play is somehow an attack on Spring Training. Why is it so important to you to use Spring Training? In all my playthrough using it I never saw anything it did to add to my game-play and or the quality of game-play. After many years in game of using it and screaming at the AI for bringing up players I didn't want them too I turned it off. I didn't see any value in it. I also turn off the All-Star Game (Never been a fan of it) and the Rule 5 Draft. I turn off the Rule 5 Draft because I feel it hurts the AI and helps me.

I suggested you play the game your way, same as we all do.

I also explained why ST is used. In case you missed it in my previous reply, ST gets rust off players, just like real life.

Most people on here explained that to you, byzeil even explained how the rules work for you. Nobody thinks you're attacking ST.

If ST does nothing for you, disable it.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

I feel Strat-O-Matic Baseball does a better job on historic replays and is a lot more fun to play. OOTP covers the finance, player development, and minors that Strat-O-Matic doesn't even cover and that is why I play OOTP at times.

Ah, yes, now this I completely hear.
My own gaming background involves many, many years playing Strat- though mostly C&D, not PC. (I do currently own Replay PC baseball, but I play more Replay PC Basketball these days.)
And I apologize if this is something I have said to you in the past (I can't always keep track of who I said what to around here ) but every time I read that someone has come to OOTP looking for a variation of their Strat (or APBA, or Replay, etc.) experience, but with the advantage of not having to buy individual seasons and with some other more robust features, I invariably chime in that in my opinion these are very different animals. I realize that others here will say that OOTP can be used for more strict historical replay purposes, and I'm sure that is true for many, but for me that isn't really the point of OOTP and I can see where if that is your primary focus some of these other games are likely still a better fit.
Even though I came to OOTP from a cards and dice sports replay game background, I decided very early on in my OOTP journey that I would approach it as a completely new thing for me, an experience very much unlike those others.
And, for me, it is much richer and fuller experience.
But it's not for everybody and I don't think it ever will be (I guess I'm hoping it won't try to be, also.)

[Greymantle]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Ah, yes, now this I completely hear.
My own gaming background involves many, many years playing Strat- though mostly C&D, not PC. (I do currently own Replay PC baseball, but I play more Replay PC Basketball these days.)
And I apologize if this is something I have said to you in the past (I can't always keep track of who I said what to around here ) but every time I read that someone has come to OOTP looking for a variation of their Strat (or APBA, or Replay, etc.) experience, but with the advantage of not having to buy individual seasons and with some other more robust features, I invariably chime in that in my opinion these are very different animals. I realize that others here will say that OOTP can be used for more strict historical replay purposes, and I'm sure that is true for many, but for me that isn't really the point of OOTP and I can see where if that is your primary focus some of these other games are likely still a better fit.
Even though I came to OOTP from a cards and dice sports replay game background, I decided very early on in my OOTP journey that I would approach it as a completely new thing for me, an experience very much unlike those others.
And, for me, it is much richer and fuller experience.
But it's not for everybody and I don't think it ever will be (I guess I'm hoping it won't try to be, also.)

I played Strat-O-Matic Baseball for many many years. I started back in the '70s and played until the early 2000s in the same league that whole time. The last version I owned was back in 2014 or so. I tried APBA back in the day but didn't like it. With Strat I got tired of buying it every year at a hefty price tag. With OOTP I can get it for 10 bucks if I just wait a few months after launch.

I enjoy OOTP a lot but if I'm going to play complete games and not autoplay I prefer Strat by a long shot. With OOTP I autoplay the whole season and get into the nuts and bolts with drafts, trading, minors, lineups, etc. After I get done with all the historical stuff with OOTP it does look like it would be fun with a fantasy league not knowing any of the players. It does have that option right? I just realized I have never looked it up.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Greymantle

I played Strat-O-Matic Baseball for many many years. I started back in the '70s and played until the early 2000s in the same league that whole time. The last version I owned was back in 2014 or so. I tried APBA back in the day but didn't like it. With Strat I got tired of buying it every year at a hefty price tag. With OOTP I can get it for 10 bucks if I just wait a few months after launch.

I enjoy OOTP a lot but if I'm going to play complete games and not autoplay I prefer Strat by a long shot. With OOTP I autoplay the whole season and get into the nuts and bolts with drafts, trading, minors, lineups, etc. After I get done with all the historical stuff with OOTP it does look like it would be fun with a fantasy league not knowing any of the players. It does have that option right? I just realized I have never looked it up.

I decided early on after purchasing OOTP to create a fictional league just for fun, to see what that looked like. At the time I couldn't imagine that it would be something I would end up spending much time with. But before long it became pretty much the only way I play the game. Playing with fictional players (and for me with fictional teams, a whole fictional baseball universe) not only offers a bit more of a challenge but I think it also resolves some of those issues that at least some OOTP'ers have when historical (or current) players don't perform as they did in real-life. My fictional league is, in some ways, more real to me than the real thing.
And I suppose that is also part of why it is easy for me to not expect or even want the same things out of OOTP that I would out of games like Strat and Replay. (I've never actually played APBA though I have some familiarity with a few of their games.)
(I found S-O-M when I was about 13, so around 1978 and I still have a cherished pile of old Strat-O-Matic Reviews (published by the Newell's, who lived not very far from where I grew up) as well as several Strat Fan's from later and still own a lot of card seasons for Strat, which I often just pull out to look at, even if I rarely play anymore. I do sometimes still get it out on the tabletop and play some games and also play/own several other sports tabletop games in the same genre, but these days the majority of my gaming time is devoted to OOTP. For the past several years I have logged at least 1,000 hours annually playing the game.)

[Greymantle]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I decided early on after purchasing OOTP to create a fictional league just for fun, to see what that looked like. At the time I couldn't imagine that it would be something I would end up spending much time with. But before long it became pretty much the only way I play the game. Playing with fictional players (and for me with fictional teams, a whole fictional baseball universe) not only offers a bit more of a challenge but I think it also resolves some of those issues that at least some OOTP'ers have when historical (or current) players don't perform as they did in real-life. My fictional league is, in some ways, more real to me than the real thing.
And I suppose that is also part of why it is easy for me to not expect or even want the same things out of OOTP that I would out of games like Strat and Replay. (I've never actually played APBA though I have some familiarity with a few of their games.)
(I found S-O-M when I was about 13, so around 1978 and I still have a cherished pile of old Strat-O-Matic Reviews (published by the Newell's, who lived not very far from where I grew up) as well as several Strat Fan's from later and still own a lot of card seasons for Strat, which I often just pull out to look at, even if I rarely play anymore. I do sometimes still get it out on the tabletop and play some games and also play/own several other sports tabletop games in the same genre, but these days the majority of my gaming time is devoted to OOTP. For the past several years I have logged at least 1,000 hours annually playing the game.)

That is most likely where I will end up playing most of my time in fictional leagues. First I want to learn more of the history of MLB where my knowledge only goes back to the late '70s to the late '90s for the most part other than the stars from past years.

One of the reasons I stopped playing Strat is because I find modern baseball boring. It's all power pitchers/hitters and the part I loved was the small gameplay. Where have all the Fernando Valenzuela, Greg Maddox Pitchers went to? Leadoff hitters like Vince Coleman, Tim Raines, Brett Butler? Small game baseball for the most part Is dead. I liked a timely bunt, hit & run, steal a base, moving runners over. Now it's a swing for the fences for the most part and I don't care how many times I strike out. Another huge thing that I didn't like was the movement of MLB to pay-TV.

What can you do time marches on and doesn't care what I think so here I am in OOTP.

[Syd Thrift]

There’s also the straight up fact that Strat in particular takes a lot of time curating each season whereas OOTP just applies a series of formulae to a lot of stats and trusts that it comes out right. It’s no knock on OOTP, it’s just not that kind of a game. OOTP’s primary form of gameplay is GMing a modern team and playing out at least a few years at a time. It’s expanded to cover historical leagues fairly well (although of course recent history will always work better than further back history) and fictional leagues too (somewhat out of necessity since playing a modern league will turn fictional as soon as you begin playing games) and has added a whole lot of other things, like IMO a really good in-game (as in, actual baseball game experience).

It’s also a $40 game. Sure, I get several hundred hours out of it every year and I’m hardly the only one. But Strat still costs $45 and individual seasons cost $27. If you’re paying OOTP $40 for an experience that would cost you $72 in another game, I’m not sure that it’s terribly fair to complain that OOTP isn’t as “good”. It’s not really meant to compete with SOM in terms of single season replays and frankly the fact that it does so well is an indictment of SOM, not a call for OOTP to get better at a relatively small slice of their own game experience.

[Greymantle]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

There’s also the straight up fact that Strat in particular takes a lot of time curating each season whereas OOTP just applies a series of formulae to a lot of stats and trusts that it comes out right. It’s no knock on OOTP, it’s just not that kind of a game. OOTP’s primary form of gameplay is GMing a modern team and playing out at least a few years at a time. It’s expanded to cover historical leagues fairly well (although of course recent history will always work better than further back history) and fictional leagues too (somewhat out of necessity since playing a modern league will turn fictional as soon as you begin playing games) and has added a whole lot of other things, like IMO a really good in-game (as in, actual baseball game experience).

It’s also a $40 game. Sure, I get several hundred hours out of it every year and I’m hardly the only one. But Strat still costs $45 and individual seasons cost $27. If you’re paying OOTP $40 for an experience that would cost you $72 in another game, I’m not sure that it’s terribly fair to complain that OOTP isn’t as “good”. It’s not really meant to compete with SOM in terms of single season replays and frankly the fact that it does so well is an indictment of SOM, not a call for OOTP to get better at a relatively small slice of their own game experience.

It's how I played Strat-O-Matic was running and owning a team. The difference for the most part in OOTP is that minors are an ongoing thing. There are lots of what I call side games in OOTP but for the most part, I turn them off because I feel it hurts the AI and or they make no sense to me. I really wasn't comparing the two other than OOTP for me is an auto-play game with a minor league system which I like and Strat-O-Matic is much better for playing individual games out. My opinion of course.

If you like History Strat-O-Matic is excellent at recreating seasons in the past lots of research went into it and it's always ongoing. But as you said and I agree the cost for staying up to date was too high for my taste and I can pick up OOTP for 10 bucks just a few months after release.

[Pelican]

What I hear running through this thread is that each player is free to play OOTP their way, thanks to the game having amazing depth and flexibility and versatility. Many options to toggle, and many seasons to play, historical, custom, fantasy leagues. As far as ST, I'm strongly in the camp that enjoys the pre-season feel, even though I don't play every game or even many ST games. I enjoy the phenoms and comebacks and dread having to make those last cuts. But I totally get those who have an itch to just start the season, 162 games (plus playoffs, if you're lucky) being quite enough. And I've learned there are those who will "set and forget" and blow through a season in a day, just to see what happens. I have become more methodical, even pitch-by-pitch on occasion (I thought I would never do that) and micro-managing the minor leagues, despite the obvious "rabbit hole" dangers there. I would never judge anyone for taking a different approach. To me, we each customize the game in our own ways. I realize some would never touch the existing ratings for any player, while others of us will "correct" numbers that seem to be out of whack. Honestly I enjoy the suggestions and different approaches, and have learned quite a bit from those who have many seasons under their belts. The game expands and adapts to suit whatever style of play you want. For me it seems to have been a natural progression from dice games, Strat and then APBA, the APBA computer game, and now OOTP, more rich and comprehensive and as true to IRL as the developers can make it - with constant patches to improve each version even further.