OOTP 16 Update #7, Version 16.7.36 Released!

[TPinrose]

A mention in the patch notes that a commish should not patch immediately would have gone a long way to make this a non-issue.

And to be honest, I would think testing that would be basic operating procedure before the release of any patch since it's important information and easily tested.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Meanwhile . . . hee, hee . . . I don't see any major problems being reported with this patch . . .

I told you old friend :

I am getting MVPs in 2-game sweeps of 3-game series now

Coaches can be hired and fired.

I am being notified when players can come off the DL

My strict rotation stays strict.

Basically, everything that kept me from playing....

And they put in some AI improvement in depth chart decisions and it seems to be improved in my small sample size so far

[vegaspomeranians]

Originally Posted by GTAltman

STEAM users are not happy. Or at least THIS STEAM user is not happy. Actually, I feel like a second class citizen.

I will NEVER be purchasing this game again thru the STEAM client. It'll be almost 5 days since a patch was released that my league required and STEAM users weren't given any chance of updating.

Our league is a fairy fast moving league, and as such I've lost a month of game time.

I find it incredibly frustrating to try and build a team and then have the rug yanked out from under my feet the company feels that one set of customers aren't as important as another. And when a company treats a portion of it's customers like a red headed step child, I'm kinda wondering at the same time why I give that company my money.

at OOTP
at STEAM
with OOTP

I'm really pissed off as well. My girlfriend gives me steam gift cards for birthdays, stocking stuffers for christmas, and whenever she wants to do something nice for me. So I have a bunch of steam credits and buy all of my pc games through steam.

I play other games on steam and they all patch at the same time and in most cases steam users get the patch faster as their servers are faster than the developers server. I've never seen a patch go out a day or longer behind for steam users. I've also never heard any developer say that patching on steam takes longer. This is the first time that I've encountered getting a patch later because I'm on steam.

I have never dealt with a company that delays their patch for steam users. I guess next year I will have to buy direct or just not buy at all. Steam isn't perfect (I sometimes have problems with the overlay but its' usually a conflict with bitdefender whenever they make an update), but I use it because I have lots of credits there and I have never had any major problems using it.

When there are people in leagues that require to be on the same build and some can get the build several days ahead of time this is unacceptable.

I have played this game for a couple of weeks and already got some of my friends that I played hs and adult league baseball with years ago to buy the game and plan to get more of my other old baseball buddies to buy it so that we can have our own league. I have to now tell people not to buy through steam so that we can avoid having some people being on an old build.

I get it. You make less money selling through steam. But steam has a huge pool of gamers. I was bored with the games I was currently playing and decided to look for a baseball game and that is how I found this game. Please treat us as equal users. This is really unacceptable.

[IsaacR]

As a Steam and regular user (that free steam key that comes with a preorder is great) I can honestly say I have no problem with keeping up with my main solo game, which is on Steam. While I can see why online leagues are a problem with delayed patching, it's the commish's responsibility to make sure all teams have an opportunity to patch before patching. If this means delaying a sim, so be it.

You realize what you're complaining about is one day, correct? One simple day. Mac store takes weeks. It's your choice to buy from a third party supplier, and possible delays in patching is just one of the many potential issues.

Continuing, why, if OOTP has finalized a patch, should they hold it back? If anything, that's even worse customer service than releasing it and letting it process through Steam within a day. It also allows them to sort through potential issues, so that you don't have to deal with the game crashes/other broken features that the ones who purchase straight from OOTP. And why should OOTP have released the last patch on Steam, since it was riddled with bugs that made the game unplayable. I, myself, am thankful that I had the old patch on Steam, rather than wait the whole weekend until the newest maintenance patch was released.

Disclaimer: I have two installs, one from OOTP directly and one from Steam.

[vegaspomeranians]

I've just never had this happen to me before where a patch is scheduled to be released later to steam users. Patches should be available for download for all users and the user should be able to pick the install directory so everyone should be able to install it regardless of where you purchased it from. I'm sure that steam does something differently which is why there's a delay, but I've never seen other developers have that delay.

I started a league with 6 other guys from my old hs baseball team and we had to stop this weekend as some of us are steam users. It would have been nice if all of use could have patched today so that we could get back to playing. I've been jonesing for days to play a league game.

[Assos]

My understanding is that Steam requires any patch to go through their uploading and patching process. Marcus and Matt release the patch here and have to wait for Steam to set up on their end and the final go ahead.

[dishnet34]

I'm getting a 404 on the PC Link? Help?

[vegaspomeranians]

Originally Posted by Assos

My understanding is that Steam requires any patch to go through their uploading and patching process. Marcus and Matt release the patch here and have to wait for Steam to set up on their end and the final go ahead.

Other games do not have the same delay. Maybe it's because the other games have a much larger fanbase so they get their patches pushed to the front of the line. I don't know how the system of patching works, but I promise that every other game that I play gets the patch at the same time and sometimes faster than from the original developer.

I can't wait to patch so I can get on with the league that I'm in with my hs and adult league buddies from back home. It's a great way to get back in touch with them other than facebook.

[Assos]

Originally Posted by vegaspomeranians

Other games do not have the same delay. Maybe it's because the other games have a much larger fanbase so they get their patches pushed to the front of the line. I don't know how the system of patching works, but I promise that every other game that I play gets the patch at the same time and sometimes faster than from the original developer.

I can say I know the games I play on Steam are mainly from Paradox or the Civ games, so I do not know how games that can be played on stand alone release product.

[GTAltman]

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

GTAItman, again, you're taking an abnormal situation and acting like this is par for the course. It's not. Again, I get it, you're upset and think OOTP should have handled it differently. You're entitled to that opinion. You're also entitled to the opinion expressed above. But it's also fair for me to ask you to agree that this was not a normal situation on both ends, OOTP and its Steam users. You joined in 2012; even with only 9 posts, surely you've been around enough to know this.

(tl:dr version) - You've been told this isn't normal by the dev himself. Practically every longtime member can substantiate his claim. You're upset. We get it. Stop complaining.

Oliver, my being here since 2012 with 9 posts OBVIOUSLY palls in comparison to your godliness of almost 1900 posts. Good for you. See, I can be just as condescending, and it's just as unappreciated.

You're damn right I'm upset. 5 days pal. 5 FLIPPIN' DAYS. Not one. Not unusual either since OOTP could have released that version thru STEAM today, and NOT wait till tomorrow.

So, if you have NOTHING constructive to say, just move along.

Originally Posted by Assos

Please also remember that most other developers will not do what they did and do a fast patch like they did.
In game play terms, they did this community a big favor.

What is that Assos? Give two updates to direct buyers and keep the redheaded step children in limbo while the Forum All-Stars with 1900 posts try out the patch first? They gave out a second patch because they F%&#*& up the first one. They HAD to come out with a fast patch.

Originally Posted by TPinrose

A mention in the patch notes that a commish should not patch immediately would have gone a long way to make this a non-issue.

And to be honest, I would think testing that would be basic operating procedure before the release of any patch since it's important information and easily tested.

Agreed, yet, originally it was supposed to be 1 day. Then problems happened and it went 4 days, and tomorrow, Wednesday is the 5th day.

Originally Posted by IsaacR

.....
You realize what you're complaining about is one day, correct? One simple day. Mac store takes weeks. It's your choice to buy from a third party supplier, and possible delays in patching is just one of the many potential issues.

Continuing, why, if OOTP has finalized a patch, should they hold it back? If anything, that's even worse customer service than releasing it and letting it process through Steam within a day. It also allows them to sort through potential issues, so that you don't have to deal with the game crashes/other broken features that the ones who purchase straight from OOTP. And why should OOTP have released the last patch on Steam, since it was riddled with bugs that made the game unplayable. I, myself, am thankful that I had the old patch on Steam, rather than wait the whole weekend until the newest maintenance patch was released.

Disclaimer: I have two installs, one from OOTP directly and one from Steam.

Isaac....it's been 5 days. F-I-V-E.... FIVE.
Patch7, Build 33 was released Friday. Today is Tuesday.

Further, the latest build did not affect online leagues, more fixed bugs with the previous build to historical leagues. Here's what was fixed with build 36:

- DL notification fixed if a human is controlling all teams
- Crash fixed for very early historical leagues (related to coach contracts)
- Fixed MLB quickstart DSL team affiliations (Red Sox 2 & Mariners 2, need to create new game for fix to apply)
- Tweaked player position AI when generating depth charts
- Fixed "Force start" issues in minor leagues
- Fixed suspension days count

I get that not all people play the game the same way. But to hold back a patch to one set of customers yet give to another set of customers doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy about being a loyal customer.

Everyone has justified what OOTP has done regarding their own way of playing, yet NO ONE has been able to address why there are two sets of rules - if you will - regarding STEAM users and direct buyers.

I'm just the only one bitching about it here. And just because I'm the only one vocalizing it - and being told to stop complaining about it by [sarcasm] an, ah hem, All-Star poster [/end sarcasm]in the forum, I am certainly not the only one.

And if anyone here finds it acceptable, in any way shape or form, of Patching direct buyers immediately and STEAM users FIVE days later, let me know.

Originally Posted by vegaspomeranians

I didn't preorder so I didn't get a key. I've just never had this happen to me before where a patch is scheduled to be released later to steam users. Patches should be available for download for all users and the user should be able to pick the install directory so everyone should be able to install it regardless of where you purchased it from.....

BINGO. Hallelujah. Some one gets it.

[RchW]

I don't know about red headed stepchildren much but I can see a 2 year olds tantrum here. Grow up!

[GTAltman]

Originally Posted by Assos

My understanding is that Steam requires any patch to go through their uploading and patching process. Marcus and Matt release the patch here and have to wait for Steam to set up on their end and the final go ahead.

BTW Assos....
IF this is the case (STEAM's own "process" if you will) it would have gone a long way if Marcus or Matt said so, rather then "defending" the process, because then it wouldn't have been OOTP's fault.

Yet they remained silent.

[Barkingturtle]

Honestly, if missing five days of your video game has made you this upset, a break was probably in order.

It appears to me that OOTPD values the patronage of Steam users to such a degree that they didn't want to push out an imperfect patch to that platform. It's almost as if we who purchase the game directly are another layer of beta, and Steam users are the beneficiaries of that extra testing. A "thank you" would be appreciated.

[vegaspomeranians]

Why can't people buy the game and install it through steam, but have the game update itself upon starting and having the patch come directly from ootp?

[vegaspomeranians]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle

Honestly, if missing five days of your video game has made you this upset, a break was probably in order.

It appears to me that OOTPD values the patronage of Steam users to such a degree that they didn't want to push out an imperfect patch to that platform. It's almost as if we who purchase the game directly are another layer of beta, and Steam users are the beneficiaries of that extra testing. A "thank you" would be appreciated.

This is a terrible excuse. When the broken patch was released they didn't know it was broken. Steam users didn't get it because it was they found out that it was buggy within the first day of release so they decided not to release it. What if the patch was fine? Steam users would have gotten it a day or two later. And now we have a good patch and steam users must wait again.

The issue is that no matter if a patch is good or bad, steam users do not get it at the same time. The only fix for this is to not buy the game through steam anymore. When I post a review for this game on steam I will be sure to tell people to buy it directly unless they don't care about getting patches days later.

[Assos]

Originally Posted by GTAltman

BTW Assos....
IF this is the case (STEAM's own "process" if you will) it would have gone a long way if Marcus or Matt said so, rather then "defending" the process, because then it wouldn't have been OOTP's fault.

Yet they remained silent.

Hopefully they are asleep since it is 5 am in Germany (if Matt is in Germany this time). Since they worked all weekend to fix the patch.

I can tell you, I have played many a years and I have had versions and patches wreck the living heck out of a season I had spent a year or two working on.

Why is there two systems? I use to play Eve via steam and sometimes the log in would not work because of steam. I would e-mail Steam and they would say nothing is wrong I would have to re -install. Sometimes that worked, other times not. There is an example of two systems.

Sadly, sooner or later, most stand alone games will disappear because of the way the world is going, good or bad. I played the awful Sim City game that EA put out. It was all about being connected at all times and not able to play the game offline, among one of the problems. It took them months to work out the issues. At least here, you are getting a patch and the develops are listening.
So you did not get a flawed patch, you should be thankful! There are very few developers that care like this team. I have been playing games for a long time, I have shelled out $50 for junk a number of times and before the internet when the game was final and not patched.
And in the end, it is just a game, it can be replaced!

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by vegaspomeranians

Other games do not have the same delay. Maybe it's because the other games have a much larger fanbase so they get their patches pushed to the front of the line. I don't know how the system of patching works, but I promise that every other game that I play gets the patch at the same time and sometimes faster than from the original developer.

I'm pretty certain this is the case.

The games from big devs I play on Steam don't have the patch delay, but those from smaller devs almost always seem like they do.

[kingcharlesxii]

The easy solution is just to talk with your commish and let them know you don't have the current version because it isn't on Steam yet. A decent commish would be willing to delay the sim or help you make moves until the problem is fixed. It's ultimately the commish's duty to make sure the league runs smoothly.

Yes, Steam gets it delayed up to a day with a new patch and it's unfortunate but easily worked around with a bit of prep. I don't know what the solution is other than what they did. If they release a broken patch for a lot of people, that's a lot more negative publicity with a bunch of people that never visit this forum. If they delayed the non-Steam patch until the Steam users got it, they would have found the error much later and many other users would have gotten a broken game. In this case it didn't affect online leagues that weren't 19th century. That might not be the case next time.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

I told you old friend :

I am getting MVPs in 2-game sweeps of 3-game series now

Coaches can be hired and fired.

I am being notified when players can come off the DL

My strict rotation stays strict.

Basically, everything that kept me from playing....

And they put in some AI improvement in depth chart decisions and it seems to be improved in my small sample size so far

I tell you, I love this debate about Steam patches (sounds like those things our moms used to iron on the knees of our jeans when they started wearing through, eh?). I LOVE this debate. May it continue another 48 hours!

With nobody bursting in here with bad news about the patch itself, that is.

[GTAltman]

Originally Posted by Assos

Hopefully they are asleep since it is 5 am in Germany (if Matt is in Germany this time). Since they worked all weekend to fix the patch.

That they screwed up in the first place.

Originally Posted by Assos

I can tell you, I have played many a years and I have had versions and patches wreck the living heck out of a season I had spent a year or two working on.

Same, but not the issue.

Originally Posted by Assos

Why is there two systems? I use to play Eve via steam and sometimes the log in would not work because of steam. I would e-mail Steam and they would say nothing is wrong I would have to re -install. Sometimes that worked, other times not. There is an example of two systems.

Sadly, sooner or later, most stand alone games will disappear because of the way the world is going, good or bad. I played the awful Sim City game that EA put out. It was all about being connected at all times and not able to play the game offline, among one of the problems. It took them months to work out the issues.

This could EASILY be it's own thread, article and blog post.

Originally Posted by Assos

At least here, you are getting a patch and the develops are listening.
So you did not get a flawed patch, you should be thankful! There are very few developers that care like this team. I have been playing games for a long time, I have shelled out $50 for junk a number of times and before the internet when the game was final and not patched.
And in the end, it is just a game, it can be replaced!

Here is the crux of the matter. We SHOULD have gotten the patch.
For what I use it for, and at least 25% of my league it wasn't flawed, nor would it have been for any other gamer who uses it in a league.

But are they listening? There's another bug in the game that I found, sent it to someone on the beta team and I got back a message that it was cost prohibitive to fix. Too prohibitive for a patch or for future versions? I dunno, it wasn't told to me. But it does effect the best part of this game, IMO, the financials pages and contracts.

But let us get back to the main issue here. Why do we wait? NO ONE has been able to answer that not even the shills who have achieved "ALL STAR" posters status and say I need to grow up because I bitch about an injustice. Maybe RchW you need to get out a bit more than posting 11,000+ messages. Damn pal, you need a life.

And BarkingTurtle, missing 5 days of a video game isn't the issue. Not being treated as a valued customer is. Maybe you should learn the difference. If they were SO WORRIED about an imperfect patch, it should have been tested and run thru the gamut before being released at all. And we should say Thank You for that, and then them programming through the weekend to make, what they screwed up right? You've obviously had too much of the kool aid.

Bottom line, 16.7.36 was released to the direct buyers, it should have also been SIMULTANEOUSLY released to the STEAM purchasers.