Baseball Hodgepodge

[NYY #23]

Number 15 on the list is Ivan Rodriguez, who was drafted as the 8th overall pick by the San Francisco Giants. Rodriguez moved up the prospect rankings until he peaked at #19 in 2040, then made his debut halfway through the season, hitting .249 with 1 home run, 18 RBI, and 19 runs scored.

Pudge's first full season in the majors was also his best. Rodriguez hit .292 with 14 home runs, 67 RBI, and 82 runs scored as the Giants new starting catcher. He'd hold down the starting catcher job for the Giants the next five years, but never fully realized his potential.

Rodriguez would never again hit .292 or higher for his career, at least as a regular, and never would equal his 14 home runs again. As his offensive stats declined Rodriguez has able to stick around for the next 12 years as a backup catcher, defensive replacement.

While Rodriguez was worth between 0.4 and 2.6 WAR those first five full years, toward the end of his career Rodriguez became even more of a liability and finished with a career WAR of -1.3.

Rodriguez was traded from the Giants to the Tigers in 2050, and seemed to find himself in the last 58 games of the season, hitting .303 with 9 home runs and 32 RBI. It wouldn't last though, but Rodriguez played parts of seven more seasons for the Tigers before hanging it up for good.

His final career numbers were .268, 128 HR, 695 RBI, and 678 runs scored. Rodriguez had an OPS+ of 87 for his career with an ISO of .124.

The final note on Rodriguez is really nothing more than a tidbit, but he played one game in 2044 as a center fielder for 3 innings and recorded 2 putouts in 2 chances. I would have loved to have the box score to try and piece together why that had to happen.

[NYY #23]

Next up on the list is Elston Howard who finished with a career WAR 0.2. It will get better I promise. Howard was drafted as the 16th overall pick in the first round by the St. Louis Cardinals. It would be three years before Howard made his debut in the majors, in a late season audition in which Howard hit .263 with 1 home run and 10 RBI in 80 at-bats.

He'd transition into a starting role the next year, showing signs of improvement raising his OPS+ from 74 to 95 to 109. His power was also improving, hitting 5, 10, then 1 home runs.

Howard struggled defensively the first couple years, but everything seemed to be coming together his third full year, and in 2043 he posted a WAR of 1.2. A .274 batting average and 56 RBI , but that would prove to be the peak of his success as he lost his starting catcher job with the Cardinals the next year.

A trade to the Giants seemed to spark a renewed energy in Howard, and his limited success following a midseason trade (.283, 2 HR, 14 RBI) earned him the starting catcher job the next year. But while his bat seemed to come back to life (.280, 14 HR, 56 RBI) his defense began to suffer (-3.5 ZR).

That was the beginning of the end for Howard, and he'd never be a starting catcher again. He'd stick around in San Francisco for 10 more years though, proving some pop with about 10 home runs per year in 200-250 at-bats.

For his career Howard hit .257 with 143 home runs, 632 RBI, and an OPS+ of 95. Another case of failing to live up to expectations, and his promise.

[NYY #23]

Number 13 on the list is Mickey Cochrane, who was drafted 6th overall in the 2038 draft by the Boston Red Sox. Cochrane made his debut on the top prospects list as the 17th overall prospect, and got a late season call-up in September for an early audition, hitting .229 (8-35). His stock fell to #42 the next year, which coincided with his earning the backup catcher job in Boston.

His first full season Cochrane hit .269 with a .355 OBP with 6 home runs in 249 at-bats. The Red Sox never viewed Cochrane as a full-time catcher though, although he excelled with the bat in limited duty, never getting more than 249 at-bats, but never hitting below .269 or with an OBP lower than .355.

Never in their long term plans the Red Sox traded Cochrane to the Cardinals in 2044, where he would play until 2051. His first three years in St. Louis went well as Cochrane become the starting catcher, and hit .306, .281, and .293 those seasons. His home runs increased to 10, 12, and 14 and his WAR those three seasons was 2.7, 1.9, and 2.5. Defensively Cochrane was a tick below average, but his bat helped make up for it.

Until 2047 at least, where Cochrane struggled all around, hitting just .240 with a .338 OBP, seeing his strikeouts increase, walks decrease, and defense deteriorate. That cost him his starting job, although he rebounded with the bat in a part time role the next year (58-192, .302, 25 RBI, 20 R).

Cochrane stuck around in St. Louis for the next two and a half years in a similar role before a trade to Baltimore where he embraced a similar role before retiring three years later.

For his career Cochrane hit .270/.371/.410 with 102 home runs, 535 RBI, and 627 runs scored. Cochrane finished with a career WAR of 8.0.

[dynaboyj]

Can't wait to see where Yogi, Mauer and Piazza end up in this crazy world of game-decided development.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by dynaboyj

Can't wait to see where Yogi, Mauer and Piazza end up in this crazy world of game-decided development.

Hopefully I'll be able to knock them out pretty quickly now. I will say that either Yogi, Mauer, or Piazza will end up in the top 3.

[NYY #23]

I never talk too much about how I was ranking the players, but each of the catchers were ranked in several categories from 16-1 and each category was weighted so if a player finished first in every category they could receive a total of 2000 points. I tried to shy away from any counting stats, and wanted to make sure the final results felt right. The next three on the list were very close, depending on what you value most. There were a couple of similar groupings where you could probably flip a coin. But I'm going to stick with the rankings.

Joe Torre was drafted as the 11th overall pick in 2038 by the Cincinnati Reds, where he'd end up spending almost his entire career. There was a late career trade to the Cardinals where he finished up his last season and a half.

Torre ranked as high as 24 on the top prospect list before he made his debut for the Reds in 2041. During his first full year in the majors Torre ended up playing more at first base and third base than he did at catcher, getting in 71 games behind the plate. Torre hit .314 that first year with a .368 OBP. He continued to hit in the low .300's the next three years, and hit low single digit home runs until he hit 12 in 2043.

Torre fell into a consistent pattern, hitting between .290-.310 each year while hitting between 10-18 home runs, and providing below average defense behind the plate.

There is always an outlier though, and for Torre than came in 2050 when he seemed to put everything together, winning the Gold Glove behind the plate and hitting .320 with a .376 OBP. His OPS+ that year was 138 and had a career high WAR of 3.6.

For his career Torre hit .299/.355/.443 with 194 homers, 1068 RBI, and 1084 runs scored. Torre finished with a career WAR of 20.6.

I could make a case for moving up one or two spots for Torre, but he wouldn't be able to go any higher than that. His unfulfilled power potential hurt his chances, as did his sub par defense.

[NYY #23]

If we were looking only at defense there would be no question that Johnny Bench would be rated #1 overall, but unfortunately for Bench we are looking at everything.

Bench was drafted as the third overall pick by the Minnesota Twins in 2038, and was a top 20 prospect in each of the next three years. While Bench spent some time on the roster his impact was minimal until he was named the starting catcher in 2044. During those four partial seasons Bench hit .206, .172, .227, and .215.

His first full season Bench hit .247 with 20 home runs and 70 RBI, although it would be fair to say he was only average defensively, although he posted his first positive WAR season (0.7). The next season, 2045 was similar for Bench - .251, 23, 69 with a WAR of 0.3.

It finally looked like Bench was putting things together his next season, winning a Gold Glove was outstanding defense, hitting a career best .298 with 25 home runs and 85 RBI. It looked like Bench finally put it all together, and that was the start of four straight seasons with Gold Gloves.

His average fluctuated from year to year (.252, .282, .268) along with his home run totals (18, 20, 32). Then things began to deteriorate in Minnesota. Bench saw his batting average, on-base percentage, and home run totals steadily drop until he bottomed out in 2053 where he hit .200/.265/.320 with 4 home runs.

He lost his starting job the next year, and two years later he was out of Minnesota, traded to the Yankees. Bench would win two more Gold Gloves with the Yankees, and hit a career best 36 home runs in 2058, but consistency couldn't to plague Bench.

Bench retired from baseball in 2063 as a Yankee, hitting no higher than .181 his last few seasons.

For his career Bench hit .246/.314/.432 with 326 career home runs. Bench finished with a career WAR of 8.7. He was the best of the group defensively, but ranked in the bottom quarter in most categories. While he certainly didn't have a bad career, Bench failed to live up to his potential.

[NYY #23]

Next up on the list is Gabby Hartnett, who was drafted second overall by the Detroit Tigers. Hartnett moved up the prospect ranking from #3 in 2039 to #2 in 2040 to #1 in 2041 where he made his debut and hit .254 with 4 home runs and 63 RBI as a part-time catcher.

Hartnett's potential ratings were pretty impressive, but only his eye fully developed as he only reached half of his potential in other categories.

That would mean that the Rhode Island native became a solid major leaguer, but never reached an elite level. Hartnett hit .287/.364/.480 with 14 home runs and 83 RBI in his second full year. He'd post similar stats in eight of the next nine seasons, missing significant time in 2046 which was a down year for Hartnett as he hit just .235 with 14 home runs.

Hartnett won one Gold Glove in 2050, and one Batter of the Month Award in 2045. After those 9 mostly consistent seasons Hartnett transitioned to a backup role, and saw his batting average and on-base percentage drop along with his power numbers.

When all was said and done Hartnett hit .262 for his career with a .347 on-base percentage. He hit 143 home runs with 760 RBI, and 740 runs scored. Hartnett played only for the Tigers in his career, and finished with a career WAR of 9.9.

[NYY #23]

It was only fitting that Thurman Munson was drafted by the New York Yankees with the 15th overall pick, and spent his entire career with the Yankees. Munson reached as high as 26th on the top prospects list before making his debut in 2040 as a backup catcher hitting .246 with 3 home runs and 25 RBI.

Munson would take over as starting catcher the next season hitting .280 with a .332 on-base percentage and added 11 home runs and 80 RBI. His average would grow the next four years from .290 to .323 to .333 to a career high .358. That season (2045) Munson would post career highs in virtually all categories - .410 OBP, 24 HR, 92 RBI, 92 R, 7 SB, 5.6 WAR, 163 OPS.

His batting average fell to .287 the next season with his home runs dropping to 13, but it was just a one year decline as he bounced back to hit .338 the next season and began a stretch of six years where Munson hit .300 or better.

As a 34 year old Munson hit .275 with 9 home runs and 55 RBI as his last year as a starter. Munson would only play two more part time seasons before hanging it up for good.

For his career Munson hit .307/.362/.452 with 198 home runs, 1083 RBI, and 1081 runs. His career WAR was 22.2 and based on my rankings Munson fell just short of the eighth spot in the list.

[NYY #23]

We reach the halfway point with Mike Piazza, who was drafted with the 9th overall pick by the Philadelphia Phillies.

Piazza reached a high of 21 on the top prospects before settling in as the starting catcher for the Phillies in 2041. His debut season Piazza hit .302 with 14 homers and 77 RBI.

For the next 17 years was the starting catcher for the Phillies, with eight seasons above .300, double digit home runs each year, and three seasons driving in more than 100 runs.

Piazza won the Outstanding Hitter of the Year Award in 2057 with a .320 average, 43 home runs, and 102 RBI and a career high 5.3 WAR.

With his bat Piazza was one of the best catchers, hitting .290 with 540 home runs, 1697 RBI, 1598 runs scored, and a career WAR of 36. Piazza also added 3384 career hits. The big knock on Piazza was his defense, which was by far the worst out of any of the 16 catchers that imported.

The other minor knock on Piazza was sticking around a little bit too long, playing 25 years in the majors. All 25 years for the Phillies, and all 25 years behind the plate, never playing as much as an inning at another position. Those last few years hurt too (.240, .227, .209, .169).

In reality Piazza feels like he should be ranked higher on the list, and I spent some time looking at alternative rankings. His career WAR ranked him 7th on the list with his defense really hurting his ranking. I'll talk a little more about one of the alternative rankings after we reach number one, but looking just at offense Piazza would rank second overall.

[NYY #23]

The Cubs selected Gary Carter with the fifth overall pick in the 2038 draft and reached 8th on the top prospect list before making his debut behind the plate for the Cubs hitting .301 in 115 games in 2041.

Carter would win his first Gold Glove in 2042, and his second and final Gold Glove nine years later.

Carter saw his power numbers steadily increase until posting a career high 45 home runs in 2049. Carter would hit more than 20 home runs 9 separate seasons and finish with 339 career home runs.

Carter posted a career high batting average of .347 in 2045, and finished with a career average of .282. Carter spent 14 years as the starting catcher of the Cubs, along with parts of four seasons.

Defensively Carter was among the upper third of catchers but was in the middle of the pack offensively. Carter finished with a career WAR of 25.

[NYY #23]

Bill Dickey was the fourteenth player selected by the Atlanta Braves in the 2038 amateur draft and made his first appearance with the Braves in 2039 picking up 4 hits in 16 at-bats. The next year Dickey spent the majority of the season, but made another late season audition saw Dickey go 20-68.

That was enough to win Dickey the starting catcher job the next season where Dickey hit .289 with 14 home runs and 69 RBI and 74 runs scored. Dickey would continue to improve with both the bat and the glove the next several seasons. In 2044 Dickey had a line of .347/.420/.537 with 24 HR, 86 RBI, 89 runs scored. In 2046 Dickey's season looked very similar - .344/.420/.579 with 24 HR, 86 RBI, 90 runs scored, but Dickey added the only Gold Glove of his career that year. His WAR those two seasons were 6.3 in 2044 and 7.4 in 2046, but lost the MVP to Alejandro Lorenzo who hit .320/.379/.537 with 32 HR, 76 RBI, 105 R scored and a WAR of 7.6.

Dickey would hold the starting catcher position for the next 12 years, and retire two years later. Dickey posted a career batting average of .293 with a .378 OBP. He hit 325 home runs in his career with 1329 RBI and 1491 runs scored. He finished with a WAR of 58.2 for his career.

[NYY #23]

Number five on the list brings us to Joe Mauer, who was selected 4th overall by the Pittsburgh Pirates in the 2038 draft. Mauer debuted on the top prospects list as #9 before moving up to #6 on his final year on the top prospects list when he made his major league debut, hitting .200 with 5 home runs, 37 RBI, and 56 runs scored.

Things would get better for Mauer in his second full year in the majors, as he raised his batting average to .309 for the season, and he would hit over .300 for the next 15 seasons. His home runs increased to 10 for the year, and although hitting home runs was never his specialty Mauer would hit between 7 and 16 home runs the next 15 years as well.

Defensively Mauer captured eight Gold Gloves, in 2041, 2043, 2045, 2047, 2049, 2052, 2053, and 2054.

When all was said and done Mauer would spend 23 seasons with the Pirates, with a career average of .307, on-base percentage of .378, and slugging percentage of .438. He'd fall just short of 3000 career hits with 2909, and hit 186 home runs. His wOBA for his career was .355 with a career WAR of 53.7.

Defensively Mauer was one of the better catchers, and his batting average and power numbers are in line with his real life totals. One area that hurt Mauer was his strikeout totals were much higher than expected, and his walks were lower. Overall it was a pretty solid showing for Mauer.

[NYY #23]

The next player on the list is Ted Simmons, who had a strange career and was a little bit difficult to rank. Across the board Simmons was pretty solid, but I could also see him falling a couple spots.

Simmons was selected as the 10th overall player by the Indians, and traded twice before making his major league debut, going from Cleveland to the Yankees to the Dodgers. Simmons never really fit in LA though, getting between 32-40 at-bats per year for the first seven years before another trade sent him to the Indians.

It was in Cleveland where Simmons got his first starting catching job, which he would hold for the next 13 seasons. His first year in Cleveland Simmons hit .304/.350/.547 with 22 home runs, 78 RBI, and 60 runs scored.

His batting average would continue to rise the next three years (.337, .343, .350) along with his home runs (18, 24, 27). That correlated to a WAR of 5.3, 6.6, and 6.8.

Simmons would never hit .300 again as a starter, although he did have back to back 30 home run seasons (32, 31). His final career totals were .294/.350/.503 with 254 home runs, 956 RBI, and 918 runs. His long road to a starting position, and injury problems late in his career had an effect on his totals. Simmons finished with a career WAR of 38.7.

[DatCloserKid]

How old are the players when you import them? And then how do put them into the amateur draft?

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by DatCloserKid

How old are the players when you import them? And then how do put them into the amateur draft?

They all come in as approximately 18 year olds (I'm using the Spritze database so they'll come in as if they would as amateurs).

From the Free Agent menu select the Import Historical Players, select the historical database, and make sure you check off the Import player(s) into draft pool. They'll come in during the next amateur draft.



I like to create a text file like this one attached to import a group of players together.

[NYY #23]

Next up on the list is Yogi Berra, who was drafted thirteenth overall by the Oakland A's in 2038 and made his major league debut the next season going 1-4 in his only game played. He stuck around as a backup catcher the next season, but his playing time was limited and Berra hit just .196 in 112 at-bats.

Berra started for the first time in 2041 and hit .264 with 4 home runs and 50 RBI, just starting to show some signs of his talent. The next season Berra hit double digit homers for the first time, and would do so in each of the next 17 years. He also hit .300 for the first time in his career with a .301 average. He'd hit over .300 four more seasons.

He'd become a fixture in Oakland, averaging 25 home runs per year and a .282 average with a .377 on-base percentage.

For his career Berra hit 409 homers, drove in 1448 runs, scored 1513 runs, and finished with an OPS+ of 134. Berra would accumulate 60.9 WAR during his career. Defensively Berra was ranked as the third worst, although I still think taking defense out of the equation would leave Berra third on the list.

[NYY #23]

Second on the list is Carlton Fisk who was drafted as the seventh overall player in the 2038 draft. Fisk would appear on three prospect rankings (#19, #12, and #4) before spending a full season in the majors in 2041 where he hit .231 with 15 home runs, 58 RBI, and 50 runs.

His second season Fisk settled in and hit .331/.417/.591 with 28 home runs, 94 RBI, and 96 runs scored. In his third season Fisk captured the Most Valuable Player Award when he hit .343/.429/.621 with 29 home runs, 110 RBI, and 107 runs scored. That would be the last MVP Award of his career, but Fisk would win the first of two Gold Gloves the next season.

Fisk would retire from baseball after 18 seasons with the Dodgers, hanging it up after the 2058 season when he was still the starting catcher for the Dodgers. For his career Fisk hit .294/.389/.491 with 341 home runs, 1422 RBI, and 1435 runs scored.

Retiring early allowed Fisk to be elected to the Hall of Fame before the other catchers were finished playing. Fisk finished with a career WAR of 70.4.

[NYY #23]

Number one on the list is Buck Ewing, who was selected as the number one overall pick by the Chicago White Sox. He was named as the top prospect in baseball, then fell to second overall when he made his debut in the majors hitting just .223 with 2 home runs, 42 RBI, and 52 runs scored.

His second full season didn't start much better, with a broken thumb keeping him out of action for the first month and a half of the season. Ewing came back strong though, hitting .284 with 10 home runs and 79 RBI and one his first Gold Glove.

Ewing would win his second straight Gold Glove the next season, and improve offensively hitting .310/.348/.504 with 16 home runs, 99 RBI, and 85 runs scored. Ewing would win his third and final Gold Glove in 2045.

Ewing would hold the starting catching position for the White Sox for 19 of his first 20 seasons in the majors, missing all but 3 games in 2058 with a broken kneecap. Ewing finished with a career .287 batting average, and career .389 on-base percentage.

Ewing hit double digit home runs 16 years, twice hitting 29 home runs, and average 20 homers over a 162 game season with a career total of 352.

Ewing hung around for five seasons toward the end of his career before retiring with exactly 3000 career base hits. Ewing drove in 1536 runs and scored another 1797. Ewing was also the fastest of all the catchers, swiping 478 bases and being caught 103 times.

For his career finished with 77.5 WAR, the best out of the group. His .371 wOBA was second only to Carlton Fisk (.373). While Ewing was strong defensively, he suffered from catching well past his prime, and towards the end of his career was a defensive liability.

Ewing was the last of the catchers to retire, but he will be headed to the Hall of Fame in five years.

[NYY #23]

I'm still not sure how well this whole experiment is working. I feel like it's disjointed, but I guess looking back the point was to try different things as time permits. So I'll keep going and trying out some different things. While I was looking at what to do next and researching the next picks for the categories I kept running across best fantasy season lists.

I eventually stumbled on this: How hitting is scored in ottoneu FanGraphs points leagues | FanGraphs Fantasy Baseball and this: A New Fantasy Pitching Points Proposal | FanGraphs Fantasy Baseball for scoring fantasy baseball. I liked that it reflected wRC and FIP, but the points made it a little more interesting.

So I wondered how that would look for the best catchers. Obviously that is throwing defense completely out the window, but the revised rankings would look like this:

1. BUCK EWING - 18,642.3
2. MIKE PIAZZA - 16,853.7
3. YOGI BERRA - 16,287.8
4. BILL DICKEY - 16,265.2
5. CARLTON FISK - 15,775.4
6. JOE MAUER - 13,960.2
7. JOE TORRE - 11,979.3
8. THURMAN MUNSON - 11,610.7
9. GARY CARTER - 11,492.4
10. TED SIMMONS - 10,612.8
11. JOHNNY BENCH - 10,144.4
12. GABBY HARTNETT - 8184.4
13. MICKEY COCHRANE - 6343.9
14. IVAN RODRIGUEZ - 6121.3
15. ROY CAMPANELLA - 5854.3
16. ELSTON HOWARD - 5568.1

Taking a look at how the previous group of players did:
1. WILLIE MAYS - 20,663.5
2. CAP ANSON - 20,330.3
3. HANK AARON - 19,032.3
4. TY COBB - 19,016.5
5. TRIS SPEAKER - 18,473.1
6. PAUL MOLITOR - 18,368
7. STAN MUSIAL - 17,711
8. EDDIE COLLINS SR - 17,432.3
9. PETE ROSE SR - 17,200.1
10. DEREK JETER - 17,164.1
11. HONUS WAGNER - 15,278
12. CARL YASTRZEMSKI - 14,319.2
13. NAP LAJOIE - 14,102.4
14. EDDIE MURRAY - 13,916.5
15. ICHIRO SUZUKI - 9980.6
16. TONY GWYNN SR - 7219.8

I'll have to see how this looks with pitchers with the next category.