Bonds better than Ruth? Pt. 2 - Page 3

lynchjm24 · 10-14-2002, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey
Ya know the point that I have been trying to get across is that it "really" doesn't matter what you or I or the man-in-the-moon thinks....

If I think that Bob Didier was the greatest player----SO WHAT.

I am done with this topic, you guys are welcome to continue.

No it doesn't 'really matter' what any of us think. But do sports 'really matter' at all then. Is it really important if Anaheim wins the World Series, or if San Francisco wins the NLCS. No of course not, but that doesn't mean you don't discuss things or spend way to much time worrying about them.

GForce22 · 10-14-2002, 03:59 PM

While in the grand scheme of things, opinions don't "really" matter as Steve said, most often, people throw evidence out there to back their opinions, whatever they might be.
Not to be argumentative here Steve, but I would be very curious to see who the 3 guys are you would put ahead of Bonds. I would guess A-Rod is one. I have no idea who the others would possibly be.

GH

spleen1015 · 10-14-2002, 04:09 PM

Chipper Jones/Andruw Jones/Gary Sheffield?

Carplos · 10-14-2002, 05:00 PM

I could understand not putting Bonds in the Top 3 all time, but not in the Top 30? That's pretty absurd.

Steve, it's fine to have your own opinions, but you keep avoiding actually saying who the 3 better are, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks you just said it because of your hatred for Bonds.

twins15 · 10-14-2002, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spleen1015
Chipper Jones/Andruw Jones/Gary Sheffield?

Nah, how about Keith Lockhart, Mark Derosa, and Julio Franco?

Kezzek · 10-14-2002, 05:04 PM

I don't like Barry Bonds.

Fact enough for me.

Modern Relic · 10-14-2002, 05:05 PM

Didn't Ruth have a scoreless inings streak that stood until broken by Drysdale in the 60's?

Jason Moyer · 10-14-2002, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Modern Relic
Didn't Ruth have a scoreless inings streak that stood until broken by Drysdale in the 60's?

Yeah. Keep in mind he did it in an era when it was perfectly normal for a bad team to go a week without scoring a run regardless of who was pitching...

Jason

Modern Relic · 10-14-2002, 07:30 PM

I thought it was a post-season streak. No?

Jason Moyer · 10-14-2002, 08:55 PM

You are correct, it was the World Series record.

Jason

Specs · 10-14-2002, 09:23 PM

Everyone with data has backed Bonds in this one... those without it seem to bash him much more. Just a casual observation. Oh, and .370 in 2002 was Bonds' first batting title. As I pointed out a little while ago, when you can three weeks walking 29 times without striking out, you are pure and simple one of the best ever.

Modern Relic · 10-14-2002, 09:30 PM

Quote:

You are correct, it was the World Series record.

So then can we rule out Ruth facing bad teams during the streak?

Cooleyvol · 10-14-2002, 10:36 PM

.......the truth of the matter is that Ruth would have been a HOFer if he'd NEVER been an everyday hitter.........

He was that good of a pitcher. The only reason he was moved to the OF was so he could swing the bat every day.

I don't think Barry could boast that.

You guys can throw all the stats you want at me, but can you counter the "HOF pitcher" argument for Ruth?

darkhorse · 10-14-2002, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
[BYou guys can throw all the stats you want at me, but can you counter the "HOF pitcher" argument for Ruth? [/B]

I am guessing you never saw Babe Ruth play. What other than numbers convinced you the Babe was the greatest hitter ever or a great pitcher as well.

Cooleyvol · 10-14-2002, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by darkhorse
I am guessing you never saw Babe Ruth play. What other than numbers convinced you the Babe was the greatest hitter ever or a great pitcher as well.

Well, going by your intelect, Williams, Gehrig, Johnson, Musial, Aaron, and a host of other players are disqualified from this discussion.

Numbers are what baseball is measured by.

So, if you look at Big Barry's # prior to the 2000 season, you see a distinct dropoff in power.

How do you explain this sudden explosion of power in his mid to late 30s?

Damn straight, #'s convinced me that Ruth is the almighty God of baseball. In case you didnt know it, Ruth IS baseball and that's something Barry will never be.

Perfect player? Hell no. Ruth was not perfect, but can you bring me anyone else who could hit more HR than most other teams over a season and COULD HAVE been the league's best pitcher if he werent belting HR like he was?

Thought not.

lynchjm24 · 10-14-2002, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
.......the truth of the matter is that Ruth would have been a HOFer if he'd NEVER been an everyday hitter.........

He was that good of a pitcher. The only reason he was moved to the OF was so he could swing the bat every day.

I don't think Barry could boast that.

You guys can throw all the stats you want at me, but can you counter the "HOF pitcher" argument for Ruth?

I haven't tried to say Bonds is better than Ruth.

All I said is that he's the best active player, and there is no way you can argue he's not in the top 3.

darkhorse · 10-14-2002, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
Well, going by your intelect, Williams, Gehrig, Johnson, Musial, Aaron, and a host of other players are disqualified from this discussion.

How, were baseball statistics not in use during their time? I merely made the point with my "intellect" that you were using numbers to form an opinion about Babe Ruth, who is the greatest player ever to play the game. Other people in this thread have used baseball statistics to present an equally compelling argument that Bonds is one of the greatest players to play the game.

Players add power as they age.

Their is no such thing as a perfect baseball player. Ruth and the Bonds of the past two seasons are about as close it gets.

Ruth hit more HR's than entire teams because he was the greatest hitter ever and players were smaller and weaker in the era he played in.

You jumped to a lot of conclusions about my opinion of Ruth based on my little observation about stats being used to form an opinion about players. Odd.

Carplos · 10-15-2002, 12:17 AM

Barry Bonds IS baseball to a lot of young people, I'd bet..

Cooleyvol · 10-15-2002, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lynchjm24
I haven't tried to say Bonds is better than Ruth.

All I said is that he's the best active player, and there is no way you can argue he's not in the top 3.

All I said is that he's the best active player, and there is no way you can argue he's not in the top 3. [/B][/QUOTE]

Lynch,
I think if you'll take the time to actually read what I've posted here, you'll find that I agreed he was most likely top 3 TODAY.

I never argued with that.

Read before you post.

If you can't find it, its on Page 2 of this topic.

KWhit · 10-15-2002, 09:52 AM

When Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs in 1927, he hit 14% of all home runs in his league that year. For a player to hit 14% of all home runs today, he would have to hit over 300 home runs in one season.

That's pretty good for me.

10-14-2002, 05:04 PM	#46
Kezzek All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Keyboard - frantically typing in subtle insults to raise my self-esteem Posts: 973	I don't like Barry Bonds. Fact enough for me. __________________ - Kez, P.E.

10-14-2002, 05:05 PM	#47
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	Didn't Ruth have a scoreless inings streak that stood until broken by Drysdale in the 60's? __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

10-14-2002, 07:30 PM	#49
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,266	I thought it was a post-season streak. No? __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

10-14-2002, 08:55 PM	#50
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,108	You are correct, it was the World Series record. Jason __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

10-15-2002, 09:52 AM	#60
KWhit Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 413	When Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs in 1927, he hit 14% of all home runs in his league that year. For a player to hit 14% of all home runs today, he would have to hit over 300 home runs in one season. That's pretty good for me. __________________

10-14-2002, 03:59 PM	#42
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	While in the grand scheme of things, opinions don't "really" matter as Steve said, most often, people throw evidence out there to back their opinions, whatever they might be. Not to be argumentative here Steve, but I would be very curious to see who the 3 guys are you would put ahead of Bonds. I would guess A-Rod is one. I have no idea who the others would possibly be. GH

10-14-2002, 04:09 PM	#43
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,008	Chipper Jones/Andruw Jones/Gary Sheffield?

10-14-2002, 05:00 PM	#44
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,902 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I could understand not putting Bonds in the Top 3 all time, but not in the Top 30? That's pretty absurd. Steve, it's fine to have your own opinions, but you keep avoiding actually saying who the 3 better are, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks you just said it because of your hatred for Bonds.

10-14-2002, 10:36 PM	#53
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	.......the truth of the matter is that Ruth would have been a HOFer if he'd NEVER been an everyday hitter......... He was that good of a pitcher. The only reason he was moved to the OF was so he could swing the bat every day. I don't think Barry could boast that. You guys can throw all the stats you want at me, but can you counter the "HOF pitcher" argument for Ruth?

10-15-2002, 12:17 AM	#58
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,902 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Barry Bonds IS baseball to a lot of young people, I'd bet..