Why why why are there so many diving catches? - Page 3

Markus Heinsohn · 08-07-2007, 04:33 AM

I agree somewhat... this is an area we need to improve next year

McBruce · 08-18-2007, 05:29 AM

My opinion is that a cosmetic change is not as important a fix as a logic correction.

I can live with all the diving because I know that this is an excellent and improving PBP engine trying to make something interesting out of the events that the world-class game engine generates. We're not seeing frequent injuries on all these dives, so I sort of ignore them the same way I would ignore a radio announcer who juiced up the descriptions to pad his audience.

More important is to correct the logical goofs: hard grounder to third, grabbed by 3b and dropped during the transfer: Joe Slowpoke (who was not even running with the pitch) somehow scores--from second. Uh, what? At least tell us that the 3b accidentally kicked the ball into the third-base coach's pocket or something!

christian troy · 08-31-2007, 12:52 PM

I was happy to read through this thread because this has always been something that has irritated me about the game. It always seems like the announcer is trying to trick you. The harder and deeper the ball is hit, the more likely it is to be caught...period. Conversley, many balls that are hit into the outfield, with a fielder ranging over to get it, drift out of the ball park at the last second.
I recognize that it must be an incredibly difficult task to program pbp that resembles anything close to being accurate, and i can live with the pbp as it is. But if there is one area that drives me nuts consistently it is this one.

The other pbp segment that drive me nuts is:
1) when you try to pick someone off they often say "He got him!!".... "No wait, he got back safely"
- i have never heard a real life announcer make that mistake, because real life announces arent umpires, they watch the umpires.

tysok · 08-31-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian troy

The other pbp segment that drive me nuts is:
1) when you try to pick someone off they often say "He got him!!".... "No wait, he got back safely"
- i have never heard a real life announcer make that mistake, because real life announces arent umpires, they watch the umpires.

This is only 1 of 42 possible statements for a safe pickoff attempt at first, 1 of 38 at second, 1 of 44 at third... so it isn't very common. I'm sure it's selective memory since it is out of the ordinary.

I've heard it occasionally, it's usually teams with an upbeat very excited announcer (like you probably would never hear the Red Sox radio guy say anything close to this)... I think it was two weeks ago with the Washington Nationals announcer I heard it last.

It'd be better if this were selective, such as he was the tying run with a slugger at the plate late in hte game or something similar. Maybe at third this guy is the winning run in the bottom of the ninth with only 1 out.... right now we don't have the ability to select to that level, so it's there as an oddball call but looks a little strange when you're down by 10 in the first inning.

zekester91 · 08-31-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

This is only 1 of 42 possible statements for a safe pickoff attempt at first, 1 of 38 at second, 1 of 44 at third... so it isn't very common. I'm sure it's selective memory since it is out of the ordinary.

I've heard it occasionally, it's usually teams with an upbeat very excited announcer (like you probably would never hear the Red Sox radio guy say anything close to this)... I think it was two weeks ago with the Washington Nationals announcer I heard it last.

It'd be better if this were selective, such as he was the tying run with a slugger at the plate late in hte game or something similar. Maybe at third this guy is the winning run in the bottom of the ninth with only 1 out.... right now we don't have the ability to select to that level, so it's there as an oddball call but looks a little strange when you're down by 10 in the first inning.

And since it's been confirmed that it's in the PBP file you could delete it if it's really really bothers you. You do have that option. Same with diving catches at the warning track, what is stoping you from editing the pbp so they are none and the pbp is more to your liking. you could change the diving catch, to something like he's running back full speed and the ball drops a few feet to his left or over his head or whatever floats your boat.

pstrickert · 08-31-2007, 02:26 PM

WRT: "He got him! . . . No, wait!"

I don't mind the line, but it has to be rare - rarer than it is now. I think the PbP could use a few more surprises, announcer gaffes, quirky plays, etc. To make it work, though, these PbP lines have to be rare.

tysok · 08-31-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekester91

And since it's been confirmed that it's in the PBP file you could delete it if it's really really bothers you. You do have that option. Same with diving catches at the warning track, what is stoping you from editing the pbp so they are none and the pbp is more to your liking. you could change the diving catch, to something like he's running back full speed and the ball drops a few feet to his left or over his head or whatever floats your boat.

The diving catch at the track is in the logic. You could edit it out so there were never any diving catches, but can't make it so there aren't any at the track. The game has decided to call a diving attempt so it does... might be able to do something with a condition, so if it calls a diving catch and the ball is deep or very deep it calls this line which might say "he lunges" instead, but haven't had time to study into that.

tysok · 08-31-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

WRT: "He got him! . . . No, wait!"

I don't mind the line, but it has to be rare - rarer than it is now. I think the PbP could use a few more surprises, announcer gaffes, quirky plays, etc. To make it work, though, these PbP lines have to be rare.

Announcer giraffes? Why would hte announcer have a giraffe? You want OOTP to have zoo days now???

zekester91 · 08-31-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

The diving catch at the track is in the logic. You could edit it out so there were never any diving catches, but can't make it so there aren't any at the track. The game has decided to call a diving attempt so it does... might be able to do something with a condition, so if it calls a diving catch and the ball is deep or very deep it calls this line which might say "he lunges" instead, but haven't had time to study into that.

I understand some of the pbp is in the logic and/or hardcoded in, so they can't be changed, but a lot of the pbp complant's I've seen can be edited by the user if they have a problem with it, and I thought I'd start a mini campain to remind people that the PBP is editable.

tysok · 08-31-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekester91

I understand some of the pbp is in the logic and/or hardcoded in, so they can't be changed, but a lot of the pbp complant's I've seen can be edited by the user if they have a problem with it, and I thought I'd start a mini campain to remind people that the PBP is editable.

Aye, it is. I've said some things and get that response, and my position is that the game should work within the guidlines of what it's built in fairly closely, meaning it should put up numbers one can compare to MLB. Then you can edit and tweak if you want something else, like mirroring Japanese pro leagues. The editing options of OOTP should be for what you want that is outside the guidlines of MLB, what the game is based on... so "out of the box" it should be expected blah blah blah.

The pbp would fall under that for me. You can edit it if you want to spice it up or want everyone to be acrobatic, but it should look and "feel" right to what we would hear from an MLB announcer.

I should have caught these and made it better, but we were working with a lot of stuff this year in pbp. If endgame were taking the stance like "It's just stupid and a deal killer and I'll never play OOTP again" I'd definitely be on the bandwagon of "This is easily editable". Since he's just pointing out that it doesn't feel right and bringing my attention to something that shouldn't be and isn't quite right, I'll admit I just missed it and if I get time I'll see if I can tweak it in the official xml file or look at it if I'm on the team next year.

But yes, if it really really bothers you it can easily be edited, just search for those categories and tweak it.

Althius · 08-31-2007, 06:06 PM

Personally I find the:

"The ball is Hammered into the outfield!
Johnson makes the catch"

More bothersome mentally as I try to play the game out in my head.

pstrickert · 09-02-2007, 02:40 PM

I copied this opening section of an on-line news story. I thought Tysok would enjoy reading it.

Hall brings glove, bat

He sets tone on defense, then snaps slump at plate

By RICK BRAUN
rbraun@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Sept. 1, 2007

Only on rare occasions is a defensive play in the first inning cited as the key moment of a game that ends up a rout.
The Milwaukee Brewers' 12-3 victory over the Pittsburgh Pirates Saturday night at Miller Park certainly qualifies as one.
Bill Hall's diving catch on the warning track in right-center field robbed rookie Steve Pearce of a two-run triple, and the Brewers used that boost to go on an offensive tear and cruise to victory.

Althius · 09-03-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Bill Hall's diving catch on the warning track in right-center field robbed rookie Steve Pearce

Ah, but the question is did it happen again in the 7th inning, as well as once more in the series?

08-31-2007, 12:52 PM	#43
christian troy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 32	Glad this came up I was happy to read through this thread because this has always been something that has irritated me about the game. It always seems like the announcer is trying to trick you. The harder and deeper the ball is hit, the more likely it is to be caught...period. Conversley, many balls that are hit into the outfield, with a fielder ranging over to get it, drift out of the ball park at the last second. I recognize that it must be an incredibly difficult task to program pbp that resembles anything close to being accurate, and i can live with the pbp as it is. But if there is one area that drives me nuts consistently it is this one. The other pbp segment that drive me nuts is: 1) when you try to pick someone off they often say "He got him!!".... "No wait, he got back safely" - i have never heard a real life announcer make that mistake, because real life announces arent umpires, they watch the umpires. Last edited by christian troy; 08-31-2007 at 12:53 PM.

08-31-2007, 02:26 PM	#46
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,134	WRT: "He got him! . . . No, wait!" I don't mind the line, but it has to be rare - rarer than it is now. I think the PbP could use a few more surprises, announcer gaffes, quirky plays, etc. To make it work, though, these PbP lines have to be rare. Last edited by pstrickert; 08-31-2007 at 02:28 PM.

08-07-2007, 04:33 AM	#41
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	I agree somewhat... this is an area we need to improve next year

08-18-2007, 05:29 AM	#42
McBruce Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New Westminster BC Canada Posts: 138	My opinion is that a cosmetic change is not as important a fix as a logic correction. I can live with all the diving because I know that this is an excellent and improving PBP engine trying to make something interesting out of the events that the world-class game engine generates. We're not seeing frequent injuries on all these dives, so I sort of ignore them the same way I would ignore a radio announcer who juiced up the descriptions to pad his audience. More important is to correct the logical goofs: hard grounder to third, grabbed by 3b and dropped during the transfer: Joe Slowpoke (who was not even running with the pitch) somehow scores--from second. Uh, what? At least tell us that the 3b accidentally kicked the ball into the third-base coach's pocket or something!

08-31-2007, 06:06 PM	#51
Althius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 102	Personally I find the: "The ball is Hammered into the outfield! Johnson makes the catch" More bothersome mentally as I try to play the game out in my head.

09-02-2007, 02:40 PM	#52
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,134	I copied this opening section of an on-line news story. I thought Tysok would enjoy reading it. Hall brings glove, bat He sets tone on defense, then snaps slump at plate By RICK BRAUN rbraun@journalsentinel.com *Posted: Sept. 1, 2007* Only on rare occasions is a defensive play in the first inning cited as the key moment of a game that ends up a rout. The Milwaukee Brewers' 12-3 victory over the Pittsburgh Pirates Saturday night at Miller Park certainly qualifies as one. Bill Hall's diving catch on the warning track in right-center field robbed rookie Steve Pearce of a two-run triple, and the Brewers used that boost to go on an offensive tear and cruise to victory.