Clemens coming back to....

[Melo]

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

They were talking on SportCenter that he will also be working a bit with the younger pitchers. If he does, this will be big for a kid like Hughes who many have compared to a younger version of him

Yup, Clemens can text him from his home in Houston while he's spending time with his family.

[darkhorse]

ESPN Sportsnation:

Q: How far will the Yankees go with Roger Clemens?

A:

Miss Playoffs: 39.2%
Wild Card:     30.3%
WS Champs:     17.9%

[Goodsox]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

ESPN Sportsnation:

Q: How far will the Yankees go with Roger Clemens?

A:

Miss Playoffs: 39.2%
Wild Card:     30.3%
WS Champs:     17.9%

I think this poll more than likely represents a lot of Yankee haters. I bet a lot of people clicked miss playoffs while hoping that is the scenario, but not really thinking of the team. Just my two cents.

[jaxmagicman]

I just don't understand how Clemens doesn't get the same crap that Bonds gets. Clemens is bringing in 28 million dollars at a time where he should be so broken down that he should be retiring.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I just don't understand how Clemens doesn't get the same crap that Bonds gets. Clemens is bringing in 28 million dollars at a time where he should be so broken down that he should be retiring.

I'm doing my part!

[jaxmagicman]

It is fun to watch though. Clemens is probably the best pitcher of all-time (at least top 5) and Bonds is the best hitter of all-time. It is good to see that this happened in my lifetime.

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

It is fun to watch though. Clemens is probably the best pitcher of all-time (at least top 5) and Bonds is the best hitter of all-time. It is good to see that this happened in my lifetime.

Clemens has a better case for best pitcher of all time than Bonds the best hitter. They're both definitely top 3. I put them: Clemens, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove. Then for hitters: Ruth, Williams, Bonds. I could definitely be persuaded to put Bonds above Williams though.

[cephasjames]

Yeah, but whose he going to sign with when he's 50?

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Yeah, but whose he going to sign with when he's 50?

Julio Franco's dietician?

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

Yeah, but whose he going to sign with when he's 50?

Depends who Pettite is playing for, probably.

[DougWyatt]

OK, I'm watching BBall tonight - and they're talking about Rog only going to the park on games he pitches.

Is that true ?

If so, phew .... I have just lost all respect for him.

[Erik W.]

This will be the third year he's done that. Where've you been?

[DougWyatt]

Completely amazing. I don't know where I've been, I've never heard that before.

Wow.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

This guy is definitey on his own friggen' program, eh?

"



I guess when you're that good, you can ignore the norms and rules--written and unwritten--and just do whatever the hell you want.

[DougWyatt]

I guess so.

I mean, yeah - he's good--err great - but ... that's BS.

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

I guess so.

I mean, yeah - he's good--err great - but ... that's BS.

I don't know about that. He's 45 and wants to be with his family. He could easily retire, but he can still help a team. So, teams are willing to compromise to get him to pitch. It doesn't bother anyone on their team, so I don't understand why it bothers fans so much.

Another reason I get annoyed with people complaining about it is that shouldn't people praise someone for wanting to be with their family? People forget that these people have lives outside baseball. It's just illogical for people to get upset over something so dumb.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Clemens has a better case for best pitcher of all time than Bonds the best hitter. They're both definitely top 3. I put them: Clemens, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove. Then for hitters: Ruth, Williams, Bonds. I could definitely be persuaded to put Bonds above Williams though.

I can see where you are coming from, but this is the same argument I have with myself. Is Bonds better than Ruth? Ruth came at a time where he changed the game, but you know what he never had to play against any other players but white players. Bonds play at a time where baseball is as diverse as it has ever been. And they both are putting up similar numbers. Ruth has never had a year like Bonds had in 2001. Ruth's best year (I say 1920, some say 1921) would only be Bonds fourth best year (2002, 2001 and 2004 are all better, in that order).

But Ruth meant more to the game than Bonds ever will.

[Melo]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

I don't know about that. He's 45 and wants to be with his family. He could easily retire, but he can still help a team. So, teams are willing to compromise to get him to pitch. It doesn't bother anyone on their team, so I don't understand why it bothers fans so much.

Another reason I get annoyed with people complaining about it is that shouldn't people praise someone for wanting to be with their family? People forget that these people have lives outside baseball. It's just illogical for people to get upset over something so dumb.

How do you know it doesn't bother anyone on the team? It's been said that the Yankees never would have made the concessions if Randy Johnson was on the team. David Wells has already spoken out about it. If you're a Yankee, are you going to rock the boat and speak up?

I don't have a problem with the "Family Package" per se. I have a problem with the hypocracy that comes along with it. Clemens says he can't wait to get back with all his old Yankee teammates. OK fine, so why doesn't he want to stay with them and travel with them all the time like all the other guys do? The announcers were saying how helpful Clemens would be to the young pitchers. When? How much time is he really going to spend with them? Then, you have the issue with the contract. The Yankees offered him a contract in March and Clemens refused. What about all his Yankee buddies then? It wasn't until he visited Boston, which prompted the Yanks to increase their offer and make more concessions, that Clemens decided he wanted to join his "Yankee buddies".

Can we call a spade a spade? Do we have to accept all the feel good rhetoric without question? Clemens signed with the Yankees for two reasons. He got a boatload of money and he gets to do what he want. He's a hired gun, not a teammate, not a mentor for young pitchers, just a guy who will take the ball every fifth day and pitch his ass off. So let's just cut out the great teammate crap. Never mind the fact that Joe Torre and Cashman said they would never accept those concessions. The same team that won't accept facial hair and long hair suddenly allows one guy to go home while everyone else plays?

Whether he does well is yet to be seen. And how much grumbling about the concessions will we hear if Clemens doesn't pitch well?

I don't think it's dumb to feel that way either. Roger Clemens is all set for life. He doesn't need the money. I don't want to hear about how much he wants to win either because if it was just about winning, he wouldn't have squeezed the Yanks for every last penny like he did. If his family was so important, he'd just stay home but no, he wants to have his cake and eat it too.

So lets just call it what it is. Leave all the noble sentiments out of it because there are none. None at all. Clemens sold himself to the highest bidder and that was the Yanks. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Dagrims]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I can see where you are coming from, but this is the same argument I have with myself. Is Bonds better than Ruth? Ruth came at a time where he changed the game, but you know what he never had to play against any other players but white players.

He also never had the chance to play against SP #5 in a pitching rotation.

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by Melo

How do you know it doesn't bother anyone on the team? It's been said that the Yankees never would have made the concessions if Randy Johnson was on the team. David Wells has already spoken out about it. If you're a Yankee, are you going to rock the boat and speak up?

Probably not, but I think when the offer was put out there to the team that if anyone has any objections to go speak with Joe, and nobody responded, I don't think it's alright to assume that people might be bothered by it. I think it's safe to say that the person that would be bothered by making that concession to a player in Roger's situation who is coming to improve the team's chances at a championship immensely would be the exception and not the rule.

Can we call a spade a spade? Do we have to accept all the feel good rhetoric without question? Clemens signed with the Yankees for two reasons. He got a boatload of money and he gets to do what he want. He's a hired gun, not a teammate, not a mentor for young pitchers, just a guy who will take the ball every fifth day and pitch his ass off. So let's just cut out the great teammate crap. Never mind the fact that Joe Torre and Cashman said they would never accept those concessions. The same team that won't accept facial hair and long hair suddenly allows one guy to go home while everyone else plays?

Trust me... feel good rhetoric ain't my thing. He did get a ****load of money and gets to do what he wants. In turn he's, as you say, taking the ball every 5th day, pitching his ass off, and improving the team A LOT by doing so. Whether or not he's a "good teammate" by public standards wouldn't matter to me if I were a Yankees fan given the improvement he's made to the team.

I still don't understand what the big deal is, other than the fact that his contract breaks the convention of the player being at every game. I have no problem differentiating Roger's situation as a very special case.