Kearns, Lopez traded to Nats - Page 3

TonyJ · 07-14-2006, 09:48 PM

1. Neither of the relievers they got are very good
2. They could have gotten much more for Kearns and Lopez

UngratefulDead · 07-14-2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

1. Neither of the relievers they got are very good

I agree that the Reds got fleeced, but I would quibble with this. Bray isn't going to be an impact reliever that gets the Reds to the playoffs (neither would Mariano Rivera, frankly), but he is still a pretty good pitcher with the potential to be one of the top lefty relievers in baseball pretty quickly. I don't put a whole lot of value on relief pitchers as a whole, but Bray is a pretty valuable one as they go.

TonyJ · 07-15-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UngratefulDead

I agree that the Reds got fleeced, but I would quibble with this. Bray isn't going to be an impact reliever that gets the Reds to the playoffs (neither would Mariano Rivera, frankly), but he is still a pretty good pitcher with the potential to be one of the top lefty relievers in baseball pretty quickly. I don't put a whole lot of value on relief pitchers as a whole, but Bray is a pretty valuable one as they go.

Yeah, he's not bad. I didn't mean to dismiss them completely, I'm just saying that it's not like they just traded for Rivera and Gagne in his prime or anything. They probably did upgrade their bullpen a little, but it's not like they remade it overnight or anything.

rudel.dietrich · 07-15-2006, 04:18 PM

A little birdie told me Bowden had very little to do with this deal...

You didn't hear that from me

cinredsfan2000 · 07-15-2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

A little birdie told me Bowden had very little to do with this deal...

You didn't hear that from me

It was you wasnt it Falls?

Your the one pulling that puppet bowdens strings

right?

rudel.dietrich · 07-15-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinredsfan2000

It was you wasnt it Falls?

Your the one pulling that puppet bowdens strings

right?

If I had just spent several hundred million dollars for the team I might

Herd Fan · 07-15-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Yeah, he's not bad. I didn't mean to dismiss them completely, I'm just saying that it's not like they just traded for Rivera and Gagne in his prime or anything. They probably did upgrade their bullpen a little, but it's not like they remade it overnight or anything.

This trade upgraded our bullpen about 9,000,000%. I know it's hard to believe if you don't watch the Reds daily but it is true. Our pen is the worst I have ever seen. We are only four games out of the NLC lead and we lead the Wild Card. Something had to be done and Lopez and Kearns were VERY expendable. Our team needs pitching in spades, whereas we can plug in hitting from the bench fairly easily.

I don't think Krivsky got fleeced. He's simply filling holes on a team by getting rid of what we don't need; he could care less about perceived value by those who don't follow any teams in cities not bordering the coast. Besides, get back to me in a few years and let me know how Kearns and Lopez worked out for the Nats...they are extremely overvalued as hitters, and Kearns cannon arm is offset by his plodding speed in the field.

mgsports79 · 07-15-2006, 06:36 PM

Okay then Guillen at 1B,Soriano at 2B,Polanco at SS,Inge at 3B,Shelton at DH,Young in LF and they can trade Monroe in part of the Soriano deal so they don't have to mess with their bullpen.
MLB.com has who cound be had!
Their is some interstring names on that list like Marquis Giles,Tim Hudson,Pizza and so on but no Pat Burrell or Jason Schmidt or the Jones boys or Edgar R.

abailey3313 · 07-15-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgsports79

Marquis Giles

JDOldSchool · 07-15-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Yeah, he's not bad. I didn't mean to dismiss them completely, I'm just saying that it's not like they just traded for Rivera and Gagne in his prime or anything. They probably did upgrade their bullpen a little, but it's not like they remade it overnight or anything.

And two solid, but not spectacular bullpen guys do not = two starting everyday players.

HoustonGM · 07-15-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgsports79

Okay then Guillen at 1B,Soriano at 2B,Polanco at SS,Inge at 3B,Shelton at DH,Young in LF and they can trade Monroe in part of the Soriano deal so they don't have to mess with their bullpen..

Guillen at first? Thats a good one buddy.

Get real.

Oh yeah, and then, what about Marcus Thames?

philsgames · 07-15-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgsports79

Their is some interstring names on that list like ...Pizza ...

I'd give up a right-handed setup man for a good slice, but for a lefty, it's have to be the whole pie.

cinredsfan2000 · 07-15-2006, 09:54 PM

A few things:

1. I don't think the "we could have gotten more" argument holds water for two very clear reasons

A) The rest of MLB knows what many Reds fans have suspected for a long time-- Kearns and Lopez simply aren't that great. The luster is off BOTH of those guys-- neither is bad, both can be good, but no longer are we waiting for superstars to emerge-- ain't gonna happen. Look around MLB-- is it THAT hard to find an OF'er with similar numbers to Kearns?

B) Bullpen help is not as plentiful as it once was. Both of the guys we got are good, young, and cheap. That's pretty important.

2. It's no coincidence we did this deal with Bowden. Name another GM that overrates "potential" more than Jimbo? He drafted Kearns hoping he'd be the next Mickey Mantle, I believe Jimbo still thinks that might happen.

If this is the ONLY big move Krivsky makes over the next season or so, then yeah, it's a bit odd. But assuming this is just another move in part of a bigger plan, it's brilliant.

darkhorse · 07-16-2006, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdgp2

He means Bowden = rocks in head.

darkhorse · 07-16-2006, 01:03 AM

A chick writes in detail why this deal is a bit sucky for one side.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=5305

cinredsfan2000 · 07-16-2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

A chick writes in detail why this deal is a bit sucky for one side.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=5305

2. It's no coincidence we did this deal with Bowden. Name another GM that overrates "potential" more than Jimbo? He drafted Kearns hoping he'd be the next Mickey Mantle, I believe Jimbo still thinks that might happen.
Dont show me stats that dont tell all read the above in bold and that will tell you all you need to know about bowden and this deal.

Bay Area Bob · 07-16-2006, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

A chick writes in detail why this deal is a bit sucky for one side.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=5305

Christina Kahrl would be the perfect wife for the vast majority of people on this board.

AllTheBest · 07-18-2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

Botts will then PLANTOON

with Larry Broadway, IF Nick Johnson is traded.
Vidro and Kinsler will PLANTOON

in Texas.

Man if I knew how to "PLANTOON" I'd never leave the house!

Is this a real book?

AllTheBest · 07-18-2006, 01:24 AM

Dola,

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgsports79

Pizza

Trade talks make me hungry. Which reminds me, the Reds got eaten for lunch on this one.

darkhorse · 07-18-2006, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bay Area Bob

Christina Kahrl would be the perfect wife for the vast majority of people on this board.

LOL.

You should probably read this article.

http://www.washblade.com/2004/4-9/lo...rts/sports.cfm

07-14-2006, 09:48 PM	#41
TonyJ Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Gassin' Kurds Posts: 2,019	1. Neither of the relievers they got are very good 2. They could have gotten much more for Kearns and Lopez __________________ My Podcasts: Talk Democratic Dysfunction Name Two Bands with Andy and Andy

07-15-2006, 06:36 PM	#48
mgsports79 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 121	Okay then Guillen at 1B,Soriano at 2B,Polanco at SS,Inge at 3B,Shelton at DH,Young in LF and they can trade Monroe in part of the Soriano deal so they don't have to mess with their bullpen. MLB.com has who cound be had! Their is some interstring names on that list like Marquis Giles,Tim Hudson,Pizza and so on but no Pat Burrell or Jason Schmidt or the Jones boys or Edgar R. __________________ Viva la Mexican Revolution!

07-15-2006, 04:18 PM	#44
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	A little birdie told me Bowden had very little to do with this deal... You didn't hear that from me

07-16-2006, 01:03 AM	#55
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	A chick writes in detail why this deal is a bit sucky for one side. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=5305