32nd man for All-Star Game

[Davey Eckstein]

I for one would be much happier if the Twins started scoring 12 runs per game.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by mlyons

No, teams are more happy to score as many runs as they can. That generally involves getting a lot of guys on base and hitting a lot of homeruns. Some teams don't have the personnel to do that, so they have to use other, less effective ways to score, like using "productive outs", stealing, sacrificing, and putting runners in motion. Those teams generally aren't as successful.

What are you arguing, I agreed with you!

[Davey Eckstein]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

What are you arguing, I agreed with you!

No, you didn't understand his post. He's saying managers would be thrilled to score 20 runs every game. You said they perfer scoring less. He's also saying that using "productive" outs and the like is a crappy strategy. Rightfully so.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Davey Eckstein

No, you didn't understand his post. He's saying managers would be thrilled to score 20 runs every game. You said they perfer scoring less. He's also saying that using "productive" outs and the like is a crappy strategy. Rightfully so.

LOL, You're team would do great against Santana.(You will score a lot of runs off him playiing for the big inning) And no that is not what I said, I said "You are correct! This isnt a likely scenario however so teams are happy to scrap away getting 3-4 runs using productive outs and a few two out hits a game AS long as their pitching is holding down the opposition. Of course occasianally, a team gets down 3-4 runs and has to play for the big inning. Maybe I should have said BEST managers prefer the lower scoring, managerial games"

Meaning, yes I agree teams would love to score 20 runs a game, will this happen? NO, so the best managers use what you called "crappy strategy" to win low scoring games and are perfectly happy doing so AS LONG as their pitching holds up. Good managers prefer a low scoring game "crappy strategy game" to a high scoring slugfest in which their bullpen gets beatdown, they last 4 hours, and managers lose control of the game.

So again where am I disagreeing?

You are being a selective reader, missing key points and trying to tell me what I said.

[Davey Eckstein]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

LOL, You're team would do great against Santana. And no that is not what I said, I said "You are correct! This isnt a likely scenario however so teams are happy to scrap away getting 3-4 runs using productive outs and a few two out hits a game AS long as their pitching is holding down the opposition. Of course occasianally, a team gets down 3-4 runs and has to play for the big inning. Maybe I should have said BEST managers prefer the lower scoring, managerial games"

My team? The Twins would fare well against Santana?

Meaning, yes I agree teams would love to score 20 runs a game, will this happen? NO, so the best managers use what you called "crappy strategy" to win low scoring games and are perfectly happy doing so AS LONG as their pitching holds up. Good managers prefer a low scoring game "crappy strategy game" to a high scoring slugfest in which their bullpen gets beatdown, they last 4 hours, and managers lose control of the game.

So again where am I disagreeing?

You are being a selective reader, missing key points and trying to tell me what I said.

You disagree by saying "small-ball" is a good method. It's not. I'm not going to dig up a bunch of statistics proving it, but take a look at this thread for a basic rundown of why it's usually ineffective.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Davey Eckstein

My team? The Twins would fare well against Santana?


You disagree by saying "small-ball" is a good method. It's not. I'm not going to dig up a bunch of statistics proving it, but take a look at this thread for a basic rundown of why it's usually ineffective.

You are forced to play small ball a lot of times is what I actually meant. You wont win very often against a great pitcher by playing for the big innning(Santana comment). Small ball in general may be ineffective in certain situations to playing for the big inning. However in many situations in is your best chance of scoring. And maybe I find the strategy part of baseball my favoirite part. I can watch sportscenter if I just want to see home runs.

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You are forced to play small ball a lot of times is what I actually meant. You wont win very often against a great pitcher by playing for the big innning(Santana comment). Small ball in general may be ineffective in certain situations to playing for the big inning. However in many situations in is your best chance of scoring. And maybe I find the strategy part of baseball my favoirite part. I can watch sportscenter if I just want to see home runs.

You'll win even less against the great pitchers by giving away outs, though. Take your Santana example. Since he got into his rhythm at the end of April, he's only gotten one loss and had one other game where he wasn't brilliant. The two runs scored on him in the loss came on a walk and a homerun, not by sacrificing or playing small ball. The only other less than great start he's had since then was a no-decision where he gave up five runs in seven innings. None of those five runs scored as a result of a sacrifice, productive out, or stolen base -- just putting guys on base and hitting for power.

You still need the big innings to beat the great pitchers -- they're just a lot less likely to happen.

[Joshv02]

The Twins have neither good defense nor good situational hitting, so I'm not sure why this is a discussion. They are just a bad team.

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by Joshv02

The Twins have neither good defense nor good situational hitting, so I'm not sure why this is a discussion. They are just a bad team.

Wanna try again, Josh?

Sure, they may be 4th from the bottom in HRs, but they are 10th in OBP.

Situational Hitting
Bases Loaded: 6th in average, T-1 in Homeruns.
Scoring Position (2 outs): 2nd in average.
Scoring Position: 4th in average

Fielding
Ummm...ok?

Twins are 7th in fielding percent, in the Majors.

6/9...that ain't to bad considering they don't have a good defense.

SP: Possibly only 1 error, don't know for sure
C: Joe Mauer - .996% with only 3 past balls and runners 15/24
1B: Justin Morneau - .993% (5 errors), Morneau was thought to be not so great at defense but has been extremely solid.
2B: Luis Castillo - Won NL gold glove last year. Not doing as great this year, but still solid.
RF: Michael Cuddyer - .991% with 5 assists, 1 error
CF: Torii Hunter - Whether you think he deserves the past gold gloves, he has won them. - .996% with 7 assists, 1 error

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

Situational Hitting

I had read that to mean "bunting" - which they are not very good at, esp. for a team with so little power (despite playing in, essentially, a neutral stadium, the power is attrocious). I grant you that they have had a fluky good BA with men in scoring position.

Fielding

http://baseballprospectus.com/statis....php?cid=11582
Defensive efficiency, 29th/30.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/teams/#alstats
+/- = worst in the AL.

They aren't a good fielding team.



Their pitching staff is essentially three good hurlers and prayers. The offense is led by 1 great player and a couple of good players.

And, I find them to be really boring. Boring uniforms, boring/bland team, just boring. With some exceptions. They don't hit and run well, they don't have patience (among the fewest P/PA), they don't play D well, they aren't particularly fundamentally sound. Johan is a thing of beautiful, as is Fransisco and Joe; of course.

YMMV.

[MorseMoose]

I guess you're pretty set in your opinion. So, I'll just leave with...I love watching the Twins because of the players. The players actually have personality and while they aren't the best hitting team, they can get it done when they need to.

When you use uniforms as criteria in judging whether a team is boring or not, I'm not gonna argue with you.

[MorseMoose]

Boooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by mgsports79

We should be able to vote for the whole All-Star teams.

I agree with mgsports? Oh my!

[mgsports79]

If Travis Hafner doesn't get 32 AL spot he has still got a shot to get in because he might be the replacement for Ramirez because they can put Paul K. in LF.
They might be more people pulling out some more of these people in running for 32 person could still get in but don't forget Ozzie said if theirs need to be a replacement on the AL team he said he is picking Joe Crede.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Joshv02

I had read that to mean "bunting" - which they are not very good at, esp. for a team with so little power (despite playing in, essentially, a neutral stadium, the power is attrocious). I grant you that they have had a fluky good BA with men in scoring position.

http://baseballprospectus.com/statis....php?cid=11582
Defensive efficiency, 29th/30.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/teams/#alstats
+/- = worst in the AL.

They aren't a good fielding team.



Their pitching staff is essentially three good hurlers and prayers. The offense is led by 1 great player and a couple of good players.

And, I find them to be really boring. Boring uniforms, boring/bland team, just boring. With some exceptions. They don't hit and run well, they don't have patience (among the fewest P/PA), they don't play D well, they aren't particularly fundamentally sound. Johan is a thing of beautiful, as is Fransisco and Joe; of course.

YMMV.

LOL, Am I suppose to take any of this "crap" serious and that is what it is. They dont hit and run well??? How the f'ck would you know, if they are so boring I am sure you dont watch them. They dont have patience, have you ever watched Joe Mauer? I would think a team that doesnt walk much would be less boring, I didnt realize you though walks were so exciting. They dont play def well, Again complete crud, Hunter and Mauer are amonst the best at their positions, Bartlett has tremenodus range, Castillo is a former gold glove 2nd baseman, and Punto is great defensively. Please get a clue before you rant about stupid things that you know nothing about.

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

LOL, Am I suppose to take any of this "crap" serious and that is what it is. They dont hit and run well??? How the f'ck would you know, if they are so boring I am sure you dont watch them. They dont have patience, have you ever watched Joe Mauer? I would think a team that doesnt walk much would be less boring, I didnt realize you though walks were so exciting. They dont play def well, Again complete crud, Hunter and Mauer are amonst the best at their positions, Bartless has tremenodus range, Castillo is a former gold glove 2nd baseman, and Punto is great defensively. Please get a clue before you rant about stupid things that you know nothing about.

I wouldn't say it is crap, he has something to back-up his comments.

The Twins aren't excellent defensively and their bunting is pretty bad, he just doesn't like watching the Twins. Fine. I completely disagree and leave it at that. Don't have to call it crap and tell him to get a clue...

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by mgsports79

If Travis Hafner doesn't get 32 AL spot he has still got a shot to get in because he might be the replacement for Ramirez because they can put Paul K. in LF.
They might be more people pulling out some more of these people in running for 32 person could still get in but don't forget Ozzie said if theirs need to be a replacement on the AL team he said he is picking Joe Crede.

Supposedly Magglio was asked by Guillen to be on the roster.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

I wouldn't say it is crap, he has something to back-up his comments.

The Twins aren't excellent defensively and their bunting is pretty bad, he just doesn't like watching the Twins. Fine. I completely disagree and leave it at that. Don't have to call it crap and tell him to get a clue...

He is saying the Twins are boring because they cant but well and dont walk. Arguably two of the most boring things in baseball. They may not bunt well, I really dont know. gardy doesnt ask them to bunt, I would guess Castillo and Bartlett would be good bunters. Then he throws out this ridiculous defensive stat which obviously doenst take into consideration the fast field the twins play on, the tendancy of the twins to strikeout more batters than the oposition, and the few errors the twins make. Hunter, Mauer, Bartlett, Castillo and Punto are all above average at their position. I'd love for him to try and argue that. Twins are an above average defensive team, he wouldnt know because he doesnt watch them. I do call it crap when he says the twins are boring and bases if off of a bunch of stats. Meaning, HE doesnt even watch the twins.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Joshv02

The Twins have neither good defense nor good situational hitting, so I'm not sure why this is a discussion. They are just a bad team.

Get a clue!

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

When you use uniforms as criteria in judging whether a team is boring or not, I'm not gonna argue with you.

That part was a joke

But, yeah, I know you like 'em. Everyone likes what they like; there is no good reason for me to like my teams. I'm half pullin' your leg, as I know the Twins fans here are a little... hard core.