Color-Correct Fighter Graphics

[Mudster]

message deleted...defusing the bomb.

[northtexas]

Originally Posted by David Myers

You are rather easily demeaned, my poor fellow.
See Jacques Barzun, Race: A Study in Modern Superstition (New York: Harcourt, Brace, 1937).

My poor fellow?? There you go again! I guess the reference to the Barzun book is to impress us with your intellect.

Funny how popular games like Madden Football and High Heat Baseball have managed to depict skin tones without being labeled racist.

Jim, don't pay any attention to the narrow-minded...if you can improve the graphics and reach a wider audience. go for it!

[Mudster]

Originally Posted by northtexas

Jim, don't pay any attention to the narrow-minded...if you can improve the graphics and reach a wider audience. go for it!

Ditto

[northtexas]

I just finished playing a simulated round of Golf with Microsoft's Links 2003 and used a white skinned animation to represent myself. Since the game includes different skin tones for the user's golfer I guess this make Microsoft a racist company.....gee, wonder why they haven't been sued?

John Madden Football has a dark skinned sprite representing Donovan McNabb and a light skinned sprite representing Ben Roethlisberger..guess EA Sports is a racist company too!

By the way, those companies use no more then three or four skin tones not 32!!

If someone is "offended" by this all they have to do is delete or move all the files in their TBC/Skins/Animations Folder and their problem will be solved!

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by northtexas

I just finished playing a simulated round of Golf with Microsoft's Links 2003 and used a white skinned animation to represent myself. Since the game includes different skin tones for the user's golfer I guess this make Microsoft a racist company.....gee, wonder why they haven't been sued?

John Madden Football has a dark skinned sprite representing Donovan McNabb and a light skinned sprite representing Ben Roethlisberger..guess EA Sports is a racist company too!

By the way, those companies use no more then three or four skin tones not 32!!

If someone is "offended" by this all they have to do is delete or move all the files in their TBC/Skins/Animations Folder and their problem will be solved!

Except that unlike those games, a text based sim assumes that people playing it are at least taking a stab at an authentic representation of real life people. (At least more so than with Madden, et cetera). Given that, some knucklehead (or worse, many knuckleheads) will wander in and complain that Sakaraia Ve is neither Asian nor Black and is not adequately represented.

Perhaps that will never happen and Meade's comments seem to suggest that it may not. My only point was - who needs that over an aspect of the game that doesn't affect the central part of what drew us all in - the text based sim.

I will grant you all that it may never be an issue, I was simply expressing a view.

[Romdawg88]

Originally Posted by northtexas

I just finished playing a simulated round of Golf with Microsoft's Links 2003 and used a white skinned animation to represent myself. Since the game includes different skin tones for the user's golfer I guess this make Microsoft a racist company.....gee, wonder why they haven't been sued?

John Madden Football has a dark skinned sprite representing Donovan McNabb and a light skinned sprite representing Ben Roethlisberger..guess EA Sports is a racist company too!

By the way, those companies use no more then three or four skin tones not 32!!

If someone is "offended" by this all they have to do is delete or move all the files in their TBC/Skins/Animations Folder and their problem will be solved!

Exactly, the create a character mode in Madden and NCAA offers what three choices for skin color: light, medium, and dark. The fighters in game having the correct color skin simply allows the game to provide a slightly more accurate picture what they look like. There's nothing racist or simple-minded or anything like that, it's just a more accurate presentation of the fighter.

I must say that I really like the overhead view Meade's been talking about. Being able to see the ring movement and such sounds really cool.

[mh2365]

I didn't see anything racist or inflammatory in David's orginal comment ... not sure why some people took it so bad .... IMO he was expressing that there are certain people who will take it wrong, he is not wrong.

Not weighing in on the argument here because 1) I don't really care and 2) no one I dislike is on either side. I just think some may have read more into his orginal comment then David intended.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I didn't see anything racist or inflammatory in David's orginal comment ... not sure why some people took it so bad .... IMO he was expressing that there are certain people who will take it wrong, he is not wrong.

Not weighing in on the argument here because 1) I don't really care and 2) no one I dislike is on either side. I just think some may have read more into his orginal comment then David intended.

Without question, his words were taken incorrectly even though he reinforced what he meant by saying that what I wrote expressed a similar thought. (Although I suspect everyone is equally steamed at me.)

He did get a little miffed at those who misinterpreted his first post but everyone needs to calm down a bit.

We all love the same game and want it to be as good as it can be, all the comments in this thread are variations on that theme.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by David Myers

I

To assume that all "blacks" have the same "skin color," or all "whites" or all "Hispanics," etc., is racist. And you can dismiss this argument all you want by sneering "PC," but a sneer is not a refutation.

Fisrt off NO ONE is claiming that by allowing for only 4 skin colors that this somehow means we all are too uneducated to KNOW that in REALITY everyones skin color varies to differeing degrees (More so then can be totally copied within only 4 colors).

Additonally there is nothing racist about this.

You are simply a person that is concerned about color. You see people as "colors" from which a further determination should / can be made (you are the true racist in this regard).

While others simply see color and general reference to anothers appearance....nothing more...nothing less!

Your PC attitude (busy-body...I'm a do-gooder...better person then you) attitude can take a hike.

The real world is sick to death of being made to feel guilty about things no one has any business feeling guilty over.

Suggesting differing skin color codes within this game is not racist.

Grow up.

[northtexas]

[QUOTE=CONN CHRIS](Although I suspect everyone is equally steamed at me.)
QUOTE]

Not me! I respect your opinion especially since you didn't resort to belittling those with opposing views (my poor fellow?) or come off with a supercilious attitude! I also agree with your contention that the 2D overhead view was the best representation of what's going on in the ring and also wish it could be programmed into this version.

[CONN CHRIS]

Cut David a little slack as well. He was jumped on rather harshly for a post that I sincerely view as misinterpreted.

You all have valid points and the developers will do as they see fit. Let's enjoy what we have in the sim and this community.

[northtexas]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Cut David a little slack as well. He was jumped on rather harshly for a post that I sincerely view as misinterpreted.

I'll take that under advisement.

[Mudster]

If you read my other posting, he claims to be one of the "originators" of the term "politically correct"...anyone claiming that, true or not(i don't have any facts to debate that), meant EVERYTHING we suspected him of insinuating he meant. I wanted this to die, but I guess he didn't, being that he jumped on his high horse on my apology thread. I'm also guessing I'll get blasted for misquoting again...first to use it in print...that's like trying to be one of the first to ever display child porn (something else that makes me sick)

[Cap]

OK. Now that everyone else has had his say on this life-altering topic, I'll throw my two cents in. If they go with the overhead view, fine. I would stick with the present animations and allow gamers the option to select either the light grey or the dark grey. Being an old-timer, I switched off the colour a long time ago and made it black & white TV.

If you do go with the overhead, I'd like to see a knock-down graphic with great fountains of blood spurting everywhere and pieces of nose splattered on the screen.

Cap

[Mudster]

Damn Cap and his tension breakers...I do like your idea

[meade95]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Let's enjoy what we have in the sim and this community.

Probably the smartest comments of the day - Agreed.

Lets all concern ourselves more over our commonalities of why we are all mainly here at this site -

[IceTea]

Man, I can't wait to post some more ring card gals. I'm not much on these topics really.

[IceTea]

Originally Posted by David Myers

I have utterly no idea what this poor fellow means by differentiating the "proper skin color" of Gene Fullmer from that of Carmen Basilio. But it makes my point rather well.

To assume that all "blacks" have the same "skin color," or all "whites" or all "Hispanics," etc., is racist. And you can dismiss this argument all you want by sneering "PC," but a sneer is not a refutation.

Individual fighters--like, say, Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio--are far more interesting than their "skin color." All this obsession over "color correct graphics" is creepy. It reminds me of the scientific racism of the nineteenth century, which tried to measure differences in skin color. Paul Pierre Broca actually came up with a 34-tone scale.

Maybe OOTP should get a copy of it!

I quick sim most fights so this isn't an issue for me.....I love the ring card gals image at the end of each round.

MJ

[IceTea]

Originally Posted by IceTea

I quick sim most fights so this isn't an issue for me.....I love the ring card gals image at the end of each round.

MJ

[jofre]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Is there any talk of just moving to a 2D overhead view that tracked ring movement Jim? The graphics would be simpler and in my opinion more meaningful.

I agree this would be much easier to do. Currently I am using my own homemade graphics from action photos. Example below.