Two-Time Gold Glove Winner Derek Jeter

[bagsangels]

yeah it didnt come out to good, if u want to check it out here is the link

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...mn=fieldingPct

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by bagsangels

yeah it didnt come out to good, if u want to check it out here is the link

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...mn=fieldingPct

And Uribe got higher RF and ZR than Cabrera from that page, with much more putouts, assists, and double plays with very similar innings played. So what was your point?

[attackemu]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

And Uribe got higher RF and ZR than Cabrera from that page, with much more putouts, assists, and double plays with very similar innings played. So what was your point?

In fact, Cabrera ranks dead last in Range Factor.

[bagsangels]

less errors and better fielding percentage, its an idividual award and double plays include a second baseman as well as a first baseman to make the catch, and also the batter hitting into a DP, so that stat means nothing to me, plus i got to watch O.C. all year and hes just amazing at short, so maybe im being a little biast but i feel he was the best defensively, and range factor, what a stat...

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by attackemu

In fact, Cabrera ranks dead last in Range Factor.

So either the Angels pitchers are mostly flyball pitchers, or Cabrera just didn't make many errors by being immobile and not getting to any balls that's remotely hard to reach.

[bagsangels]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

So either the Angels pitchers are mostly flyball pitchers, or Cabrera just didn't make many errors by being immobile and not getting to any balls that's remotely hard to reach.

i dont care what the "range factor" stat says, i watched him play all year, he made some increadible plays, lets go by what we watch for once instead of what numbers tell us, put if u do want to look at numbers, look at fielding percentage and errors, i think those are the main ones when looking at defense.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by bagsangels

less errors and better fielding percentage, its an idividual award and double plays include a second baseman as well as a first baseman to make the catch, and also the batter hitting into a DP, so that stat means nothing to me, plus i got to watch O.C. all year and hes just amazing at short, so maybe im being a little biast but i feel he was the best defensively

Heh, f'real.

Low range factor basically means he didn't get to lots of balls. Usually that means his fielding range is small. When you have a smaller fielding range, that means you are only getting to balls close to you. And if you only field balls close to you, it's much easier to have a lower fielding percentage.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by bagsangels

i dont care what the "range factor" stat says, i watched him play all year, he made some increadible plays, lets go by what we watch for once instead of what numbers tell us.

Did you watch Uribe all year too though?

[attackemu]

Also, frequent incredible plays are also an indication that he doesn't do a good job of being in position to get balls without having to dive, or doesn't get to them in time.

[bagsangels]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Did you watch Uribe all year too though?

yes i did actually, i had the baseball package, im not taking anything away from him, hes got a great arm and range, i just feel that cabrera should have won, if not him than uribe for sure, but jeter? i dont know about that.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by attackemu

Also, frequent incredible plays are also an indication that he doesn't do a good job of being in position to get balls without having to dive, or doesn't get to them in time.

Yeah, an ideal fielder would be someone who seems to do every with ease, and you'd only realize the brilliance when you found out how many balls he actually gets to.

[TotalEnd98]

Originally Posted by bagsangels

i dont care what the "range factor" stat says, i watched him play all year, he made some increadible plays, lets go by what we watch for once instead of what numbers tell us

They did. This would be why Derek Jeter is now a two-time Gold Glove winner. The ironing is delicious!

Originally Posted by bagsangels

put if u do want to look at numbers, look at fielding percentage and errors, i think those are the main ones when looking at defense.

Those are quite possibly the two most useless statistics in baseball, my friend.

The funny part is, with Orlando Cabrera, you have a player who was defensively essentially the same as Derek Jeter this season. They both had a RATE of 105 and Jeter had 31 runs saved above replacement to Cabrera's 29. You literally could not have picked two more equal players.

[bagsangels]

i dont think so my friend, those 2 statistics are not useless, jeter had an E stat of 15 and a ot stat of 22, cabrera is a 7 and 9 so jeter is not as good a fielder as cabrera.

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by bagsangels

wow, thats a ridicoulous statement...i got this off of ESPN.COM
Sortable Fielding:
NAME GP GS INN TC PO A E DP FPCT RF ZR
Orlando Cabrera, LAA 140 139 1241.2 583 229 347 7 81 .988 4.18 .844
Derek Jeter, NYY 157 1353.2 731 262 454 15 96 .979 4.76 .830
Juan Uribe, CWS 146 143 1293.1 687 249 422 16 99 .977 4.67 .852
Michael Young, Tex 155 155 1356.0 683 238 427 18 95 .974 4.41 .807
Miguel Tejada, Bal 160 160 1395.2 753 252 479 22 105 .971 4.72 .818
Jhonny Peralta, Cle 141 138 1232.1 639 207 413 19 104 .970 4.53 .852
Julio Lugo, TB 156 155 1339.2 759 311 424 24 94 .968 4.94 .841
Angel Berroa, KC 159 159 1360.1 720 254 441 25 108 .965 4.60 .827
Edgar Renteria, Bos 153 150 1293.0 655 227 398 30 90 .954 4.35 .809
Russ Adams, Tor 132 122 1100.0 546 194 326 26 68 .952 4.25 .780

Now how is it that the number one fielding shortstop in the AL would be just as big a travesty????????

Wow, Peralta did much better than I thought he would. If you asked me today if I was allowed to choose which guy I'd want between Jeter and Peralta, it would be Jhonny in a heartbeat. Not only was his D fairly comparable, but compare the offense. Peralta had an OPS+ of 139, an OPS of .886 and 73 extra base hits, while Jeter had an OPS+ of 121, an OPS of .849 and 49 extra base hits. Seems to me Joe Morgan and all his announcer buddies are whacking off to the wrong SS when they grow wood over Jeter.

[Luis_Rivera]

Here's the Win Shares Gold Glovers and who actually won (and where they ranked). I'm going to divide the OF into 3 positions, though.

C: Joe Mauer (9.2); Varitek (4.9 - 10th)
1B: Teixeira (3.3)
2B: Hudson (7.8)
3B: Crede (5.5); Chavez (5.3 - 2nd)
SS: Uribe (9.3); Jeter (6.0 - 6th)
LF: Crisp (4.4); Hunter (3.8 - 16th of all OF)
CF: Rowand (7.6); Wells (6.7 - 2nd of all OF)
RF: Ichiro (4.3)

Looks like, by Win Shares... Tex, Hudson, and Ichiro (if you want to divide them up... which they don't) all were spot on. Chavvy and Wells were pretty good choices. Jeter was a not-so-good choice. Hunter and VTek, as I suspected were pretty much awful.

KB, FWIW, Peralta was second in Win Shares with 8.1.

[JDOldSchool]

Originally Posted by bagsangels

lets go by what we watch for once

Eyes lie. Eyes are biased. Eyes don't see everything.

I think it's incredibly stupid to just go by what your Angel-fan eyes tell you. It's kinda hard to convict somebody based on eye-witness testimony alone. There's a good reason for that.

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Here's the Win Shares Gold Glovers and who actually won (and where they ranked). I'm going to divide the OF into 3 positions, though.

C: Joe Mauer (9.2); Varitek (4.9 - 10th)
1B: Teixeira (3.3)
2B: Hudson (7.8)
3B: Crede (5.5); Chavez (5.3 - 2nd)
SS: Uribe (9.3); Jeter (6.0 - 6th)
LF: Crisp (4.4); Hunter (3.8 - 16th of all OF)
CF: Rowand (7.6); Wells (6.7 - 2nd of all OF)
RF: Ichiro (4.3)

Looks like, by Win Shares... Tex, Hudson, and Ichiro (if you want to divide them up... which they don't) all were spot on. Chavvy and Wells were pretty good choices. Jeter was a not-so-good choice. Hunter and VTek, as I suspected were pretty much awful.

KB, FWIW, Peralta was second in Win Shares with 8.1.

The main problem with the Win Shares system for a catcher's defense is how it rates any catcher who suits up for the Red Sox. Two of the main cogs of the system for catchers are non-strikeout putouts (plays at the plate and pop-ups) and non-stolen base attempt assists (fielding bunts and dribblers). Half of a Red Sox catcher's games are played in Fenway Park which has the smallest foul territory in baseball. And, because of the Red Sox offense, fewer teams bunt against the Red Sox, thus cutting down the catcher's ability to get assists on those plays.

It's not a perfect system, but it's pretty good. It's just that there is a unique problem for the Red Sox catchers that makes them look worse than they probably are. Not enough to be awarded a Gold Glove, though (I-Rod should have gotten it).

[Jason Moyer]

Edit: I hate all statistics except for the ones I'm completely obsessed with.

Edit 2: Can't we all just use our eyes for once and look at the fielding percentages?

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Eyes lie. Eyes are biased. Eyes don't see everything.

I think it's incredibly stupid to just go by what your Angel-fan eyes tell you. It's kinda hard to convict somebody based on eye-witness testimony alone. There's a good reason for that.

you know when I was growing up I swore up and down that my dad had a red truck. I told all my friends about my dad's red truck. He even talked about his red truck. Last year, we were going through some pictures and there was a picture of the truck. You know it wasn't red at all, it was blue. I asked him why he let me call it a red truck when he knew it was blue and he just said that he didn't feel like correcting me. Man, talk about my eyes lying.

[Davey Eckstein]

This thread is funny.