Bret Boone DFA - Page 3

Gastric ReFlux · 07-04-2005, 03:58 PM

They could move Boone to CF?

TotalEnd98 · 07-04-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomlefty10

Because the Yankees can't field well and Boone, is a very good 2B?

Cano is fielding much better than Boone is.

darkhorse · 07-04-2005, 04:04 PM

Playing Boone over Cano would be criminally stupid.

Gastric ReFlux · 07-04-2005, 04:06 PM

But Boone could really add some veteran leadership to a middle infield that's desperately looking for experience. Or something, something like that.

Hasn't Boone just gotten old, anyhow?

Gastric ReFlux · 07-04-2005, 04:08 PM

yeah, look at that. Boone could have tracked down that gapshot by Sosa. Boone would have known where to play against a hitter like Sosa who would be shooting for the gaps in a situation like that.

darkhorse · 07-04-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick

I'm not saying I could have predicted that Guillen would suddenly look like the best 2nd tier shortstop in the AL

2nd tier? Is old Honus still slapping leather?

mlyons · 07-04-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomlefty10

Because the Yankees can't field well and Boone, is a very good 2B?

You're kidding, right? Boone used to be a good second baseman, but he looks like he's got lead weights around his ankles in the field now. I'm not a big fan of most defensive metrics, but he places dead last among AL second basemen in both Range Factor and Zone Rating. Cano's no whiz in the field at this point, but Boone's no upgrade there.

TotalEnd98 · 07-04-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastric ReFlux

But Boone could really add some veteran leadership to a middle infield that's desperately looking for experience. Or something, something like that.

Even Joe Morgan would never suggest that a middle infield including Derek Jeter would be lacking veteran leadership.

CMH · 07-04-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Sweet Jesus. The man had a .373 OBP last year with a .440-something SLG. He also hit almost 40 doubles. He was the 2nd best 2B in the AL last year.

You need to lay off the ESPN, man.

First those that are misconfused. This isn't homerism. This is facts.

Bellhorn is a very good second baseman and it's about time people pay attention.

CMH · 07-04-2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gastric ReFlux

But Boone could really add some veteran leadership to a middle infield that's desperately looking for experience. Or something, something like that.

Hasn't Boone just gotten old, anyhow?

Age = wisdom = leadership.

I bet Steinbrenner is calling the Mariners right now...

Jason Moyer · 07-04-2005, 06:45 PM

I was going to make some asinine post about Boone being more clutch than Bellhorn, but that's clearly not true, either.

TotalEnd98 · 07-04-2005, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Age = wisdom = leadership.

I bet Steinbrenner is calling the Mariners right now...

Actually, Georgie Boy has swung a bit too far back the other way. After the A's said no to a Kotsay/Cabrera-Clippard deal, George wanted to bring Cabrera right to the majors from AA and let him take over the CF job. Cashman told him to give him a chance at AAA first.

Astros33Resurrected · 07-04-2005, 07:00 PM

I apologize, but the few times I have seen the Yankees on TV, Cano has made some huge errors.

randomlefty10 · 07-04-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

You're kidding, right? Boone used to be a good second baseman, but he looks like he's got lead weights around his ankles in the field now. I'm not a big fan of most defensive metrics, but he places dead last among AL second basemen in both Range Factor and Zone Rating. Cano's no whiz in the field at this point, but Boone's no upgrade there.

I was semi-joking. I was mimcking the justification that the sportscasters use. Also, FWIW, according to defensive RAA and Rate, Boone is dead average for the league.

JWay · 07-05-2005, 01:22 AM

I think the Mariners should concentrate on what they have now realize that it sucks, ship off their pitchers that have talent left and maybe some value.. Get more prospects, hope they turn out. Suck for 2-3 more years and make a climb. While doing this, reserve whatever money they make now to help deal with the decline in attendence while this happens and when it doens't pick up right away use it to keep those prospects from hitting FA and junk. JMO. BTW Beltre and Sexson deals, yuck! Bavasi is a stupid idiot.

darkhorse · 07-05-2005, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astros33Resurrected

I apologize, but the few times I have seen the Yankees on TV, Cano has made some huge errors.

I might swap him for Alfonso Soriano, straight up.

Johnny Slick · 07-05-2005, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billethius

I'd say the pitching staff's inability to get people out is a direct result of Brian Price's (pitching coach) "Pitch to Contact" philosophy. Everyone's k/9 is well below their career averages, and it's precisely because Price seems to think it's better to let guys hit the ball than it is to strike them out. I think that if Price were to go, we'd see an improvement in the pitching. Not drastic, as they're still carrying crappy pitchers (Sele, Nelson, Franklin), but guys like Meche and Piniero are still young enough and have shown enough talent in the past to be above-average major league pitchers.

I'll always remember Price as the guy who convinced Lou Piniella not to be an a-hole with the pitching staff. As for "pitch to contact", as Skipa said, they're not doing that. I think that the case could have been made with Freddy Garcia while he was here, but Piniero, Meche, et al are not playing the "pitch to contact" game, they are playing the "don't strike anybody out" game.

Johnny Slick · 07-05-2005, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Age = wisdom = leadership.

I bet Steinbrenner is calling the Mariners right now...

Supposedly the Yanks and Pads are the two teams involved in the "bidding war" for his services.

CommishJoe · 07-05-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick

Supposedly the Yanks and Pads are the two teams involved in the "bidding war" for his services.

You should get a warning for posting that

darkhorse · 07-08-2005, 06:01 PM

BB Pro's Derek Jacques spins a few numbers 'round the Boone DFA.

Earlier this week, the Mariners designated starting second baseman Bret Boone for assignment. Boone had contributed a .231/.300/.385 line in 2005, "good" for a .241 EqA, which itself followed a .255 EqA performance in 2004.

With the M's season making like the Ty-D Bowl Man, management has prudently decided that youth must be served at the keystone, in the form of Jose Lopez. Lopez has shown some decent pop at Tacoma--his PECOTA projection has him hitting .268/.304/.421 in the majors, a bit better than what Seattle's getting from Boone, and only $8.8 MM or so cheaper.

Unless Boone is offered (and accepts) a minor-league assignment--highly unlikely--he's done as a Mariner. Curious about Boone's standing within the organization's history, we asked Clay Davenport where Boone stood among the team's second basemen.

Code:

Games AVG/OBP/SLG WARP3 Bret Boone 803 .277/.336/.478 38.6 Harold Reynolds 1155 .260/.326/.345 37.3 Julio Cruz 742 .243/.327/.307 25.8 Joey Cora 544 .293/.355/.406 16.5

Those are Mariners career totals, and that's about it as far as the list goes. After this top four, you have Mark McLemore (15.7 WARP3), who played only one of his four Mariner seasons as a second baseman, then you have David Bell (12.9), another player who had more playing time at another position for the M's (third base) than he did at second. After that, all the second basemen failed to accumulate in their entire Mariner careers the WARP3 that Boone tallied in 2001 alone: Rich Amaral (11.4), Jack Perconte (9.7), Luis Sojo (4.8), Larry Milbourne (4.4).

One of the reasons it works out this way is because the top four players on this list fairly monopolize the Mariners' history at the position. Julio Cruz played in their inaugural season, and continued with the team until 1983, roughly coinciding with the arrival of Harold Reynolds. Reynolds, who is probably better known outside of Seattle as one of the talking heads on Baseball Tonight than he is for his playing career, kept the job through 1992, when a minor league second baseman named Bret Boone looked like he could handle the position. After Boone was traded to the Cincinnati Reds in 1993 (for Dan Wilson and Lou Piniella whipping boy Bobby Ayala) the Mariners wandered in the wilderness for a year or so before Joey Cora came on the scene in 1995, and lasted through 1998. After that, more wilderness, and then Boone.

When all is said and done, Boone beats Reynolds out handily, leaving little room for us to argue career versus peak value. Reynolds was a defense-first small-ball player from another era, while Boone returned to the Mariners in 2001 to experience one of the late, great peaks that any second baseman has ever had, accumulating 31.8 WARP3 and 96 HR in his age 32-34 seasons. During that same span, Boone was almost as good with the glove as Reynolds was in the best three years of his Mariners career. Boone was 29 fielding runs above average (RAA2), while Reynolds accumulated 31 between 1987-1989.

Regardless of career achievements, when your 36-year-old second baseman looks shot, it's time to say good-bye. What remains to be seen is if the Mariners can get anything of value for what was, briefly, one of the best second basemen in the game.

07-04-2005, 04:04 PM	#43
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	Playing Boone over Cano would be criminally stupid. __________________ "The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

07-04-2005, 06:45 PM	#51
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,112	I was going to make some asinine post about Boone being more clutch than Bellhorn, but that's clearly not true, either. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

07-08-2005, 06:01 PM	#60
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	BB Pro's Derek Jacques spins a few numbers 'round the Boone DFA. Earlier this week, the Mariners designated starting second baseman Bret Boone for assignment. Boone had contributed a .231/.300/.385 line in 2005, "good" for a .241 EqA, which itself followed a .255 EqA performance in 2004. With the M's season making like the Ty-D Bowl Man, management has prudently decided that youth must be served at the keystone, in the form of Jose Lopez. Lopez has shown some decent pop at Tacoma--his PECOTA projection has him hitting .268/.304/.421 in the majors, a bit better than what Seattle's getting from Boone, and only $8.8 MM or so cheaper. Unless Boone is offered (and accepts) a minor-league assignment--highly unlikely--he's done as a Mariner. Curious about Boone's standing within the organization's history, we asked Clay Davenport where Boone stood among the team's second basemen. Code: Games AVG/OBP/SLG WARP3 Bret Boone 803 .277/.336/.478 38.6 Harold Reynolds 1155 .260/.326/.345 37.3 Julio Cruz 742 .243/.327/.307 25.8 Joey Cora 544 .293/.355/.406 16.5 Those are Mariners career totals, and that's about it as far as the list goes. After this top four, you have Mark McLemore (15.7 WARP3), who played only one of his four Mariner seasons as a second baseman, then you have David Bell (12.9), another player who had more playing time at another position for the M's (third base) than he did at second. After that, all the second basemen failed to accumulate in their entire Mariner careers the WARP3 that Boone tallied in 2001 alone: Rich Amaral (11.4), Jack Perconte (9.7), Luis Sojo (4.8), Larry Milbourne (4.4). One of the reasons it works out this way is because the top four players on this list fairly monopolize the Mariners' history at the position. Julio Cruz played in their inaugural season, and continued with the team until 1983, roughly coinciding with the arrival of Harold Reynolds. Reynolds, who is probably better known outside of Seattle as one of the talking heads on Baseball Tonight than he is for his playing career, kept the job through 1992, when a minor league second baseman named Bret Boone looked like he could handle the position. After Boone was traded to the Cincinnati Reds in 1993 (for Dan Wilson and Lou Piniella whipping boy Bobby Ayala) the Mariners wandered in the wilderness for a year or so before Joey Cora came on the scene in 1995, and lasted through 1998. After that, more wilderness, and then Boone. When all is said and done, Boone beats Reynolds out handily, leaving little room for us to argue career versus peak value. Reynolds was a defense-first small-ball player from another era, while Boone returned to the Mariners in 2001 to experience one of the late, great peaks that any second baseman has ever had, accumulating 31.8 WARP3 and 96 HR in his age 32-34 seasons. During that same span, Boone was almost as good with the glove as Reynolds was in the best three years of his Mariners career. Boone was 29 fielding runs above average (RAA2), while Reynolds accumulated 31 between 1987-1989. Regardless of career achievements, when your 36-year-old second baseman looks shot, it's time to say good-bye. What remains to be seen is if the Mariners can get anything of value for what was, briefly, one of the best second basemen in the game. __________________ "The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

07-04-2005, 03:58 PM	#41
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	They could move Boone to CF?

07-04-2005, 04:06 PM	#44
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	But Boone could really add some veteran leadership to a middle infield that's desperately looking for experience. Or something, something like that. Hasn't Boone just gotten old, anyhow?

07-04-2005, 04:08 PM	#45
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	yeah, look at that. Boone could have tracked down that gapshot by Sosa. Boone would have known where to play against a hitter like Sosa who would be shooting for the gaps in a situation like that.

07-04-2005, 07:00 PM	#53
Astros33Resurrected Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lufkin, TX Posts: 2,213	I apologize, but the few times I have seen the Yankees on TV, Cano has made some huge errors.

07-05-2005, 01:22 AM	#55
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	I think the Mariners should concentrate on what they have now realize that it sucks, ship off their pitchers that have talent left and maybe some value.. Get more prospects, hope they turn out. Suck for 2-3 more years and make a climb. While doing this, reserve whatever money they make now to help deal with the decline in attendence while this happens and when it doens't pick up right away use it to keep those prospects from hitting FA and junk. JMO. BTW Beltre and Sexson deals, yuck! Bavasi is a stupid idiot.