New Non-HW Boxers Rated

[jofre]

Using the Trunzo punching power formula Doran would be at (5) and Juricn (1).

[vistaman44]

Jofre;
That's true, and I appreciate your comments. The thing about it is that Jurich beat two 8s and a 9 in his career, and has almost no chance to do so without increasing his HP, leaving his other ratings as realistic as possible. After play-testing him against the other fighters in the division/era, he consistently lost to the 8/9 overall guys until I bumped the HP.

Doran may be a little high, but he fought a lot of the era's contenders and was pretty consistent after his beginner stage.

Not every fighter's career fits the formula. These are just my estimations, and people are obviously welcome to use them as a starting point and tweak them to their own opinions and specifications. That's one of the great things about the game!

I would be open to suggestions as to how to make light hitters more competitive in other ways if you've got any to share. It just seemed in Jurich's case 11/10 was the max in CF, so bumping the HP seemed the next best choice.

Love to hear from Jim on this, too.

[jofre]

Mark, when you set his CF to 11/10 did it accomplish what you wanted? If yes, then that makes more sense than increasing his HP IMO. It really is a trial and error process to get as accurate a simulation as possible.

[swampdragon]

I know Jim's article on rating fighters says that it is a problem making light hitters as competitive as they were in real life. I believe he suggests bumping up the CFs as high as necessary. The question would be whether an HP of 4 would raise the KOs to unrealistic levels. I guess that's something that can only be resolved by playtesting. Rating fighters is a very interesting topic to me and I think we'll all get better at it with practice. As it stands, my vote would be with Mark. You need HP better than 1 to get the 4 pt punches you have to have to win decisions against good fighters. I would rather have too many KOs than too many decisions going the wrong way.

[vistaman44]

Yes, Jofre. I started with him at 9/8 CF, which I thought was about right, but he kept losing unanimous decisions or getting KO'd late against fighters ranked 8 or better. Then I tried 10/9 and he managed one split decision out of 20 bouts. 11/10 also didn't make a significant difference. That's when I started bumping up the HP.

Swampdragon, that is what I'm looking for is win/loss accuracy against actual foes. I figure unless we put in a whole bunch of journeymen and generic beginners, the records and KOs won't be accurate. I just want them to be capable of beating the people they're supposed to.

I don't want to take sides. I'm just seeking a solution for the light hitters to give them a chance without making them 15/15.

[Rasmuth]

this may not mean much...but who actually cares about the numeric ratings if they are providing accurate results (results that seem to be in line). There are great fighters with 50-30 records who fought all the top-flight competition of their era and not so-greats who compiled 23-2 records fighting nothing more than glorified amatuers.

If your getting accurate results within the parameters that we can test...thats about all we can do. Move on and rate more!

[vistaman44]

Bump to keep on first page ...

Will post some 1930-50 smaller guys this evening. Anyone else got some more? Let's keep it going!

[David Myers]

No relation.

<b><font size=3>Spug Myers</b></font>
Junior Welterweight
b. 1903-01-02
d. 1979-11-18
Home: Pocatello, Ida.
Trainer: Spider Roach
Career, 1919-34
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=050355" target="_blank">Record</a>: 69-28-23 (26)

Style: Slugger
Fouls occasionally

CFB/S 7/8
HP 2
CKD 2
CKO 0
REC 3
CUTS 2
AP 3
KI 6
AGG 8
END 9
DEF 4
FS 1
OR 2
DP 1
CON 3
INT 6
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 2
CU 1
GK 2
CLI 72
Punches
J 20.5/1.25
H 20.5/1.25
CR 20.5/1.25
CB 15/1
UC 17.5/1.25
PL 36
CP 34
PM 64
Rate 4

Myers, who started boxing professionally when he was still in high school, fought Mushy Callahan for the junior welterweight title in 1927, and lost on points in ten rounds. He had defeated Callahan over the same distance just three months before, but the championship was not on the line.

Myers got to the championship bout by defeating Billy Alger, Lou Paluso, Russie Leroy, and Sid Barbarian, and by fighting Billy Petrolle and Tommy Freeman to no-decisions.

The title shot marked the pinnacle of Myers's career. After that he started losing with some regularity, although to good fighters--Callahan, Petrolle, Stanislaus Loayza, Sammy Mandell, Jackie (Kid) Berg, Manuel Quintero.

I have no idea what the nickname "Spug" means. One newspaper writer, detailing his victory over Barbarian, said that Myers "was true to the tenets of the society for the preservation of useless giving, represented by his nickname and made the blows he gave count."

[vistaman44]

Spug ... Now there's one I missed! Kudos on some interesting background, David. Thanks.

[vistaman44]

As promised, here is fly/bantam Star Frisco, born in the Philippines and fought in the U.S., 1932-38. He weighed 111-115 and posted a 14-13-3 record with one KO. Was never knocked out or TKO'd. Defeated champion Small Montana, but lost Little Dado and title claimant Jackie Jurich. Defeated bantam title claimant Mickey Miller twice, lost to Umio Gen and defeated Lew Farber in other notable fights.

Boxer/seldom
CFB/S 8/7
HP 1
CKD 2
CKO 0
REC 1
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 6
END 9
DEF 0
FS 2
OR 2
DP 1
CON 2
INT 5
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 1
CU 2
GK 4
CLI 68
Punches
J 24/0
H 17/0
CR 23/0
CB 19/0
UC 17/0
PL 38
CP 36
PM 64
Rate 5

[djday45]

Just a quick message to say thks to everybody for the extra fighters everyone is providing!

rgds
Dean

[vistaman44]

Thanks, Dean, for the ones you have posted, too. A couple more oldtime flyweights coming tonight ...

[swampdragon]

Bump to keep on 1st page.

[vistaman44]

And another bump, but something more substantial soon, I hope.

[David Myers]

More boxers, more boxers!

<b><font size=3>Maxie Strub</b></font>
Lightweight
Home: Erie, Pa.
Career: 1928-37
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=056971" target="_blank">Record</a>: 43-11-7 (13)

Style: boxer
Fouls seldom

CFB/S 10/9
HP 1
CKD 2
CKO 1
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 6
END 9
DEF -2
FS 1
OR 2
DP 1
CON 2
INT 3
PRF 10
FI 1
FO 3
CU 2
GK 1
CLI 72
Punches
J 17.5/0
H 26.25/0
CR 21.25/0
CB 12.5/0
UC 22.5/0
PL 36
CP 38
PM 64
Rate 7

Something must have happened to Maxie Strub. I don't know what. He was moving into the ranks of contenders, beating Wesley Ramey, Johnny Jadick, and Eddie Cool in succession in 1935. (The win over Ramey avenged an earlier loss.) Then, suddenly, after a loss to welterweight Dick Demaray--in Demaray's home town--Strub is finished.

Earlier in his career Strub also defeated Sammy Mandell, Sammy Dorfman, Luke Carr, and Mike Ballerino, while absorbing losses at the hands of Eddie (Kid) Wagner, Ray Miller, and Joe Marcus.

Something must have happened. Strub gave every indication of a fighter who could have gone farther.