White Sox/Angels ALCS Thread - Page 27

Luis_Rivera · 10-17-2005, 12:12 AM

I despise Kenny Williams; I despise the team; I despise Ozzie Guillen; I despise the way that the media just doesn't get it when it comes to its analysis and hype of this team.

However, I let that get in the way of realizing that they are a great defensive team, with an improved pitching staff. I'd have to do a bit more digging than I've done to decide if their level is at all sustainable (they're not a 99 win team regardless... they were very lucky throughout the season as is shown by their record in 1-run games), but I didn't give them enough credit this year.

Congrats to Eriq and the rest of the Pale Hose fans on this board.

GForce · 10-17-2005, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

(they're not a 99 win team regardless... they were very lucky throughout the season as is shown by their record in 1-run games).

I respect your comments on here, Luis, but this kind of stathead junk drives me nuts. B.S. they're not a 99 win team...they ARE a 99 win team because that's how many they won. Regardless of whether they can replicate it or some formula says they shouldn't have won that many, they DID, and thus, there ARE a 99 win team.

You are what your record says you are. Simple as that.

GH

SouthSoxFan · 10-17-2005, 12:22 AM

Correction, 106 win team! Next stop, 110.

keenejee · 10-17-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jestor

Man, I was scared the White Sox were gonna get screwed there.

Lord knows that's going to happen in this series.

Luis_Rivera · 10-17-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GForce

I respect your comments on here, Luis, but this kind of stathead junk drives me nuts. B.S. they're not a 99 win team...they ARE a 99 win team because that's how many they won. Regardless of whether they can replicate it or some formula says they shouldn't have won that many, they DID, and thus, there ARE a 99 win team.

You are what your record says you are. Simple as that.

They won 99 games, but they did not play as well as a 99 win team. Winning 1-run games is not a sustainable talent.

Tampa Bay was 29-25 in 1-run games, Seattle 26-23, Colorado, 25-24... Cleveland was 22-36. Were these teams somehow much better in 1-run games, while Cleveland couldn't handle them?

Some people want to bring up the fact that Chicago has a great bullpen that is handled well by Guillen (while I despise Guillen, I do have the utmost respect for his ability to handle the 'pen). Well, my Red Sox... with one of the worst 'pens in the league were a solid 27-15.

The White Sox were 35-19 in 1-run games... that's a .648 winning percentage... significantly better than their record not in those games.

I mean, you can say you are what your record says you are... but do you really believe it's as simple as that? Logically, I really can't believe it given all the factors involved.

JDOldSchool · 10-17-2005, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

Team ERA+ 123

17.8 percent of their win shares were with the glove in the field.

A slightly below average offense, yes, but the pitching was incredible and the defense in the field was pretty stellar as well. They're a solid team.

Oh, their pitching has been top notch. Defense has been a part of that. I just think they would've won a hell of a lot more games without a crappy offense.

Like I said in some thread, not sure which. I despise their offensive philosophy because it just doesn't work. If their 1-3 starters wouldn't have all posted career years, they'd be a 75-win team based on that offense. It's frustrating to cheer for a team who just does things so obviously stupid and wrong offensively.

Jonzard · 10-17-2005, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

does things so obviously stupid and wrong offensively.

Its called smart ball. Its gotta be smart!

JDOldSchool · 10-17-2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Logically, I really can't believe it given all the factors involved.

I think the problem is that Ozzieball and this 2005 baseball season defy all logic. The fact it's working is what's so damn baffling. I've decided I hope they win the World Series, but I also hope they win 75 games next year just so the baseball world makes sense again.

Luis_Rivera · 10-17-2005, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzard

Its called smart ball.

When I hear the bobbleheads use that term, I want to stick my face in a wheat thresher.

Cyclone792 · 10-17-2005, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Oh, their pitching has been top notch. Defense has been a part of that. I just think they would've won a hell of a lot more games without a crappy offense.

Like I said in some thread, not sure which. I despise their offensive philosophy because it just doesn't work. If their 1-3 starters wouldn't have all posted career years, they'd be a 75-win team based on that offense. It's frustrating to cheer for a team who just does things so obviously stupid and wrong offensively.

My Reds are sort of polar opposites: Phenomenal offense, absolutely terrible pitching and not exactly the best defense, either. In fact, if we even had slightly below average pitching and a stellar defense this past season, it could have been an exciting year for us. But we didn't, and that's why we were a 73 win team instead of a 90 win team. We lost a ridiculous amount of games with scores of about 10-8.

I understand the frustration when the Sox offensive strategy isn't necessarily the best strategy. Of course, if you're a White Sox fan and they're winning, trust me, enjoy it while it's occurring even if it appears mind-boggling how it's happening. It could be worse ... they could be playing that type of offense with Eric Milton on the mound, instead of one of the career years the Sox got.

rdklein · 10-17-2005, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

I mean, you can say you are what your record says you are... but do you really believe it's as simple as that? Logically, I really can't believe it given all the factors involved.

Regardless of all these other factors - wins are the only thing that matter. You can argue that there are better teams in the AL, and you could post a lot of stats and "what ifs", but I don't think your arguments would hold much water because none of these other teams are in the World Series right now.

The only stat that holds any merit when it's all said and done is the W.

JDOldSchool · 10-17-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

My Reds are sort of polar opposites: Phenomenal offense, absolutely terrible pitching and not exactly the best defense, either. In fact, if we even had slightly below average pitching and a stellar defense this past season, it could have been an exciting year for us. But we didn't, and that's why we were a 73 win team instead of a 90 win team. We lost a ridiculous amount of games with scores of about 10-8.

I understand the frustration when the Sox offensive strategy isn't necessarily the best strategy. Of course, if you're a White Sox fan and they're winning, trust me, enjoy it while it's occurring even if it appears mind-boggling how it's happening. It could be worse ... they could be playing that type of offense with Eric Milton on the mound, instead of one of the career years the Sox got.

I want to enjoy it, I really do. My lack of enjoyment isn't any kind of stubborn stance against the White Sox. I'm wearing my Rowand jersey right now. The problem is that when I watch and I start to cheer for them, someone I completely dislike comes to bat. Aside from Konerko, Rowand, and Pierzynski I don't much like anybody else in that starting lineup. It's hard to cheer a team with a bunch of guys I don't like wearing the shirts, even though I do love those shirts.

GForce · 10-17-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

They won 99 games, but they did not play as well as a 99 win team. Winning 1-run games is not a sustainable talent. .

Yes they DID play as well as a 99 win team, because they won 99 games. This is what I mean...it's statheads gone crazy. You can give all the formulas and figures you want, say such and such isn't sustainable, etc. (it only has to be sustainable over the course of the season, which is apparently was...that it wouldn't be likely through another 1,000 games or whatever is interesting, but thoroughly irrelevant), but the fact is the object of the game is to win, and they did that...99 times. Hence, they did play as well as a 99-win team, because that's what they were.

GH

Eckstein 4 Prez · 10-17-2005, 12:51 AM

Congratulations, Sox and Sox fans. Good luck in the Series. Although the umpiring in this series was at times jaw-droppingly bad, the White Sox outplayed the Angels and deserved to win.

magnet · 10-17-2005, 12:58 AM

Think the Sox will take home the hardware? I don't

darkhorse · 10-17-2005, 01:00 AM

Big congrats to the White Sox.

Enjoy it, because you are about to get spanked. The Astros do what you do better than you.

All hail the Burke! 10X the Gload.

JDOldSchool · 10-17-2005, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

All hail the Burke! 10X the Gload.

Blasphemy.

Gload EQA = ∞

MogulChamp · 10-17-2005, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

Konerko, Rowand, and Pierzynski I don't much like anybody else in that starting lineup. It's hard to cheer a team with a bunch of guys I don't like wearing the shirts, even though I do love those shirts.

Not even Iguchi? Pods?

Hopefully you like our rotation though.

MogulChamp · 10-17-2005, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I think the problem is that Ozzieball and this 2005 baseball season defy all logic. The fact it's working is what's so damn baffling. I've decided I hope they win the World Series, but I also hope they win 75 games next year just so the baseball world makes sense again.

Pitching and defense is what the team is built around. There's no secret. There is nothing illogical about it. It is a proven method to win games. Of course you need a couple of power hitters too, but a lot of the wins were execution, not beating yourself and great pitching. That explains the 1 run records as well. This style of play also seems to work quite well for Ozzie's managerial style.

The problem next year comes if we don't have #14 in the lineup.

Jestor · 10-17-2005, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MogulChamp

Pitching and defense is what the team is built around. There's no secret. There is nothing illogical about it. It is a proven method to win games. Of course you need a couple of power hitters too, but a lot of the wins were execution, not beating yourself and great pitching. That explains the 1 run records as well. This style of play also seems to work quite well for Ozzie's managerial style.

The problem next year comes if we don't have #14 in the lineup.

Agreed. We need to re-sign Konerko. He's a top priority.

10-17-2005, 12:12 AM	#521
Luis_Rivera Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,177	I despise Kenny Williams; I despise the team; I despise Ozzie Guillen; I despise the way that the media just doesn't get it when it comes to its analysis and hype of this team. However, I let that get in the way of realizing that they are a great defensive team, with an improved pitching staff. I'd have to do a bit more digging than I've done to decide if their level is at all sustainable (they're not a 99 win team regardless... they were very lucky throughout the season as is shown by their record in 1-run games), but I didn't give them enough credit this year. Congrats to Eriq and the rest of the Pale Hose fans on this board. Last edited by Luis_Rivera; 10-17-2005 at 12:14 AM.

10-17-2005, 12:51 AM	#534
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Congratulations, Sox and Sox fans. Good luck in the Series. Although the umpiring in this series was at times jaw-droppingly bad, the White Sox outplayed the Angels and deserved to win. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

10-17-2005, 01:00 AM	#536
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	Big congrats to the White Sox. Enjoy it, because you are about to get spanked. The Astros do what you do better than you. All hail the Burke! 10X the Gload. __________________ "The Human Torch was denied a bank loan."

10-17-2005, 12:22 AM	#523
SouthSoxFan Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 38	Correction, 106 win team! Next stop, 110.

10-17-2005, 12:58 AM	#535
magnet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,029	Think the Sox will take home the hardware? I don't