Thread for player identification in team photos

[20_range]

If someone wouldn't mind identifying this player from the 1908 Cubs... I thought about drawing the bear somehow but ended up liking how he looked and using his face for a generic type player logo. But I'd like to know who it is!

* Johnny Evers has quite a look and is obvious but I don't recognize the other players (compared to the users of this subforum I'm definitely not an expert on this era)

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by 20_range

If someone wouldn't mind identifying this player from the 1908 Cubs... I thought about drawing the bear somehow but ended up liking how he looked and using his face for a generic type player logo. But I'd like to know who it is!

* Johnny Evers has quite a look and is obvious but I don't recognize the other players (compared to the users of this subforum I'm definitely not an expert on this era)

The player circled closely resembles Joe Tinker.

I'm ready to stand corrected but the players shown left to right suggestions are:- Ed Reulbach, Jimmy Slagle, Heinie Zimmerman, Joe Tinker, Carl Lundgren, Kid Durbin, Frank Chance, Del Howard and Johnny Evers.

Attached is a colorized broader width image. Jimmy Sheckard is the player on Reulbach's right. On Evers left are Harry Steinfeldt, Orval Overall and Solly Hoffman (extreme right as we look at it).

The image has been dated 10 July 1908. Obvious omissions based on the box score are the battery of Pat Moran and Mordecai Brown. The player dissected on the extreme left could be one of them.

[20_range]

Thanks!

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

I've been trying to find a picture for missing player Mike E. Burke and I'm almost certain he's sitting in the front row, far left in this team photo, purportedly of the 1876 Columbus Buckeyes. Burke was a very big man for the time period and he was a starter for the 1876 and 1877 teams. I'm wondering if this is a late-season or early 1877 photo...

I found two articles of interest related to this photo. The first describes the 1876 Buckeyes uniform as having the letter "B" on the breast of the shirt. The second describes the 1875 Buckeyes uniform as having the team name on the shirt front. The uniforms in the photo match the description for the 1875 uniform, not the 1876 uniform. So two options. The first is that it is a photo of the 1875 club. The second is that it was taken early in the 1876 spring, before the 1876 uniforms arrived. In that case, it would greatly restrict who could be in the photo from the 1876 team.

I guess a third option would be that it could be 1877, in which case John Magner could be in the photo.

Plot twist!

[UKBaseballfan]

The above uniform descriptions appear to raise the probability that the uniforms shown in the image are a better match for the 1877 team rather than the 1876.

Given that I tried to undertake some research as to which of the players identified in the image were part of the 1877 roster.

I came across the below link which identifies players with the 1877 Columbus team detailing the start and finish date of their stay. I do not know if this has been validated elsewhere.

https://krispaulw.com/baseball/howar...&city=Columbus

Some very interesting names appear perhaps most interestingly Frank Fleet but also Charlie Pabor, Jim McCormick, King Kelly and Bobby Mathews.

Full List:-
Billy Barnie April 30 to July 11
Eddie Booth April 30 to September 5
Mike Burke April 30 to September 5
Callahan April 30 to September 5
Frank Fleet April 30 to September 5
King Kelly April 30 to September 5
John Magner April 30 to May 25
Martin August 14 to August 27
Bobby Mathews July 6 to July 11
Jim McCormick May 26 to September 5
Charlie Pabor June 2 to September 5
Harry Spence April 30 to September 5
George Strief April 30 to September 5
Chub Sullivan April 30 to September 5
Walsh August 6 to August 7

[UKBaseballfan]

In respect of the 1876 Columbus roster the same source indicates the following players identified within the image to be on the roster:-

Simmons, Nolan, Doscher, Burke, Strief and Sullivan.

However Eddie Booth identified with the image is not included in the 1876 listed roster.

The following 4 players are listed in the roster but not as yet identified in the image :- Billy Barnie, Samuel Dodds, Jim Foran and Mike Mansell.

[cinemaodyssey]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

In respect of the 1876 Columbus roster the same source indicates the following players identified within the image to be on the roster:-

Simmons, Nolan, Doscher, Burke, Strief and Sullivan.

However Eddie Booth identified with the image is not included in the 1876 listed roster.

The following 4 players are listed in the roster but not as yet identified in the image :- Billy Barnie, Samuel Dodds, Jim Foran and Mike Mansell.

I'm a much bigger fan of this photo being from 1877. The potential Booth ID came from me and stems from the uncanny resemblance between the player in the front row of the Columbus team photo and the only exemplar we have of Booth later in life. Working on this photo for several years, I think it is much more believable that every team in the inaugural season of the International League would have a team photo taken.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

In respect of the 1876 Columbus roster the same source indicates the following players identified within the image to be on the roster:-

Simmons, Nolan, Doscher, Burke, Strief and Sullivan.

However Eddie Booth identified with the image is not included in the 1876 listed roster.

The following 4 players are listed in the roster but not as yet identified in the image :- Billy Barnie, Samuel Dodds, Jim Foran and Mike Mansell.

I'm the person who set up the site you reference, based on the spreadsheets of Reed Howard. The Columbus Dispatch, on Nov. 16, 1876, indicated that the Buckeyes used only thirteen players during the season.
These were:

With the club all season: Barnie, Ed (The Only) Nolan (ironically not the only Nolan), Dodds, Martin Nolan (referred to as Martin all season long), Burke, and Doscher.

Foran and Mansell, who started the season with the club but left during the season. The ninth player at the start of the season was West, from Brooklyn, who lasted about a month (based on box scores), later identified as "Eddie" when he joined Indianapolis in June. I think he may have been the MLB Umpire Ed West of the 1880s, but I haven't proven that.

Simmons replaced West in June.
Strief joined in July
Shaffer replaced Foran in August.
Ed Callahan joined in September. I have not yet identified who this was, but he wasn't the 1884 pitcher. He came from New York and was with Columbus again in 1877.

The manager was Jimmy Williams.

I found a box score with two other players - Little and Dunn, replacing Barnie and Nolan - for a game in May. Little was with the club in 1875. Not dire about Dunn yet.

I'm not sure who D.A. Sullivan was. I think he was with the club in 1875, and was expected to be on the club in 1876, but I have never seen his name in a box score from 1876.

That, as best I can tell, is the entirety of the 1876 Buckeyes roster, based on box scores and articles from throughout the season. I need to update the database to include a few of these 1876 players who aren't there yet. On the list of things to do...

I've been trying to find information on the 1877 uniform, with no luck so far.
The Martin from 1877 is probably Martin Nolan. He later became a well-known lawyer in Columbus.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by prewinter

I'm the person who set up the site you reference, based on the spreadsheets of Reed Howard. The Columbus Dispatch, on Nov. 16, 1876, indicated that the Buckeyes used only thirteen players during the season.
These were:

With the club all season: Barnie, Ed (The Only) Nolan 9ironically not the only Nolan), Dodds, Martin Nolan (referred to as Martin all season long), Burke, and Doscher.

Foran and Mansell, who started the season with the club but left during the season. The ninth player at the start of the season was West, from Brooklyn, who lasted about a month (based on box scores), later identified as "Eddie" when he joined Indianapolis in June. I think he may have been the MLB Umpire Ed West of the 1880s, but I haven't proven that.

Simmons replaced West in June.
Strief joined in July
Shaffer replaced Foran in August.
Ed Callahan joined in September. I have not yet identified who this was, but he wasn't the 1884 pitcher. He came from New York and was with Columbus again in 1877.

The manager was Jimmy Williams.

I found a box score with two other players - Little and Dunn, replacing Barnie and Nolan - for a game in May. Little was with the club in 1875. Not dire about Dunn yet.

I'm not sure who D.A. Sullivan was. I think he was with the club in 1875, and was expected to be on the club in 1876, but I have never seen his name in a box score from 1876.

That, as best I can tell, is the entirety of the 1876 Buckeyes roster, based on box scores and articles from throughout the season. I need to update the database to include a few of these 1876 players who aren't there yet. On the list of things to do...

I've been trying to find information on the 1877 uniform, with no luck so far.
The Martin from 1877 is probably Martin Nolan. He later became a well-known lawyer in Columbus.

Are you ruling out D.A. Sullivan as Chub Sullivan who has been identified within the team photo?

Also Shaffer is an additional new name could he have any connection with the player active in the National Association with the 1875 Brooklyn Atlantics. Interesting that Frank Fleet and Charlie Pabor from that roster apparently represented Columbus in 1877.

I am confused about the mixture or players identified within the image as many would indicate that it represents the 1876 roster while Booth if present would not.

Billy Barnie also appears to be likely featured in the image based on his time span in Columbus but as yet not identified.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

Are you ruling out D.A. Sullivan as Chub Sullivan who has been identified within the team photo?

Also Shaffer is an additional new name could he have any connection with the player active in the National Association with the 1875 Brooklyn Atlantics. Interesting that Frank Fleet and Charlie Pabor from that roster apparently represented Columbus in 1877.

I am confused about the mixture or players identified within the image as many would indicate that it represents the 1876 roster while Booth if present would not.

Billy Barnie also appears to be likely featured in the image based on his time span in Columbus but as yet not identified.

D.A. Sullivan is most definitely not Chub Sullivan. D.A. Sullivan shows up in connection with the team in February, 1876, and the article indicated he was from Syracuse. After that mention, he never plays with the team, as best I can tell.

Shaffer was George Shaffer, late of the Philadelphia club, when he joined the club in August, 1876, per the Columbus Dispatch on Aug 14, 1876. I believe that was Orator Shafer. I've never tried to connect him to the 1875 Brooklyn Atlantics.

I've got to say the more I look at this photo, the more I think it is either late 1875 or early 1876. If it were the 1877 club, you would think they would all have the same uniform (as in the new uniforms for the season), or, if it were taken very early in the spring, it would have carry-over uniforms from 1876, not 1875.

[UKBaseballfan]

I have been able to access 7 box scores detailing the Columbus lineup. As there are 9 players in uniform in the image then one would assume each position is represented. These actually commence from the 17 April so you may wish to update your details to reflect this. One new name, Bradd, is present who just appears to be a last minute substitute to replace an injured player.

April 17 April 19 May 23 June 1 July 17

1. Fleet cf Fleet cf Fleet cf Fleet 2b Booth rf
2. Magner lf Burke ss Burke ss Burke ss Burke ss
3. Burke ss Booth rf Booth rf Booth rf Pabor lf
4. Strief 2b Spence 3b Magner lf Pabor lf Sullivan 1b
5. Booth rf Barnie c Callahan p Callahan p Barnie c
6. Barnie c Sullivan 1b Spence 3b Spence 3b Strief 2b
7. Spence 3b Strief 2b Sullivan 1b Sullivan 1b Spence 3b
8. Sullivan 1b McCormick p Barnie c Barnie c Mathews cf
9. McCormick p Bradd lf Strief 2b Strief cf McCormick p

August 30 August 31

1. Kelly c Kelly c
2. Burke ss Booth rf
3. Sullivan 1b Burke ss
4. Callahan cf Pabor lf
5. Booth rf Sullivan 1b
6. Strief 2b Callahan cf
7. Spence 3b Strief 2b
8. Martin lf Spence 3b
9. McCormick p McCormick p

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

I have been able to access 7 box scores detailing the Columbus lineup. As there are 9 players in uniform in the image then one would assume each position is represented. These actually commence from the 17 April so you may wish to update your details to reflect this. One new name, Bradd, is present who just appears to be a last minute substitute to replace an injured player.

I'm still working on processing the original data set, so I haven't started updating it much with additional information. But this recent discussion on the Columbus club has gotten me curious about the 1877 International Association, so that season might be a fun place to start.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by prewinter

I'm still working on processing the original data set, so I haven't started updating it much with additional information. But this recent discussion on the Columbus club has gotten me curious about the 1877 International Association, so that season might be a fun place to start.

I was able to access the box scores from the link below. You may well already have used the same source.

https://ohiomemory.org/digital/colle...ad/desc/page/8

Unfortunately I could not find a way of obtaining the newspapers in pure chronological order so I had to resort to plodding through each page and if I persisted would have come up with a much more comprehensive picture of the Columbus team throughout the 1877 season.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

I was able to access the box scores from the link below. You may well already have used the same source.

https://ohiomemory.org/digital/colle...ad/desc/page/8

Unfortunately I could not find a way of obtaining the newspapers in pure chronological order so I had to resort to plodding through each page and if I persisted would have come up with a much more comprehensive picture of the Columbus team throughout the 1877 season.

I've been using Genealogybank.com to access Columbus newspapers from the 1870s. There is a paper that was really good about covering the club in 1876, but seemed to reduce coverage in 1877. I was hoping there was something about the uniform of the club for 1877, but I haven't found anything yet.

[prewinter]

I'm fairly certain this is a photo of Samuel Dodds, who played the entire 1876 season for the Buckeyes. Dodds also finished the 1875 season with the club, joining in August (I think). At the start of the 1877 season, it was reported that he was working in Yellow Springs, Ohio.

Samuel P. Dodds started working for his brother John in Yellow Springs in 1872 in the railroad office. There are also references to his playing baseball in the Springfield newspaper after he started working there. While his obituary doesn't mention his baseball activities, I'm still pretty sure this is the Samuel Dodds who played for Columbus, based on his connection to Yellow Springs.

Dodds should be in the photo if it is the 1876 club, but not in the photo if it is the 1877 club.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by prewinter

I'm fairly certain this is a photo of Samuel Dodds, who played the entire 1876 season for the Buckeyes. Dodds also finished the 1875 season with the club, joining in August (I think). At the start of the 1877 season, it was reported that he was working in Yellow Springs, Ohio.

Samuel P. Dodds started working for his brother John in Yellow Springs in 1872 in the railroad office. There are also references to his playing baseball in the Springfield newspaper after he started working there. While his obituary doesn't mention his baseball activities, I'm still pretty sure this is the Samuel Dodds who played for Columbus, based on his connection to Yellow Springs.

Dodds should be in the photo if it is the 1876 club, but not in the photo if it is the 1877 club.

The image of Dodds could well be pivotal and there does appear to be a strong probability he is depicted in the team photo. Have you any viewpoint about why Billy Barnie does not appear to be present, despite being heavily featured in both the rosters of 1876 and 1877.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

The image of Dodds could well be pivotal and there does appear to be a strong probability he is depicted in the team photo. Have you any viewpoint about why Billy Barnie does not appear to be present, despite being heavily featured in both the rosters of 1876 and 1877.

Barnie wasn't with the 1877 club all season; I think he left in August. He played in 66 of the team's 87 games.

I found at one point in the 1875 Columbus newspapers a comment about the club signing a bunch of new players, one of which was Dodds. Sadly I have not found this article again yet, but I'm wondering if this photo isn't of that newly reorganized club from 1875. If that were the case, Barnie wouldn't be in it.

[UKBaseballfan]

I will use this post to keep updating player identification suggestions.

Top Row (l-r)

Rye,x,x,x,x,Durst,x,x

Row 2

x,Van Camp,Murphy,McSwain,x,x,x,x,x,x

Row 3

Lisenbee,Rhyne,Sweeney,Warstler,Winsett,Lucas,Oliv er,x,Hulswitt,Ruel

Row 4

x,x,x,Russell,MacFayden,Berry,x,x,x,x,x

Bottom Row

McLaughlin,Gaston,Brillheart,Burns,x,x,Webb,x

[Geordie]

Second row from the top, 4th from the left, Tom Oliver?

[Geordie]

3rd row from the bottom, between Lisenbee and Sweeney, could it be Hal Rhyne?