Thread for player identification in team photos

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

...
Only puzzling omission is George Davis do you have any suggestion for his absence.

Personally, I would consider Dunn's absence far more curious than Davis's. Davis was with the team in a very limited capacity in 1903, after jumping from the White Sox. In fact, his very short, 4-game tenure with the team in late June and early July was wrapped in scandal, a violation of the peace agreement between the AL and NL.

In contrast, Dunn played consistently for the Giants from 1902-04, without objection or scandal.

That said, I don't have an explanation for the absence of either.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by tnfoto

...Dunn played consistently for the Giants from 1902-04, without objection or scandal.

That said, I don't have an explanation for the absence of either (George Davis or Jack Dunn).

The Giants were in New York in early April of 1903, playing exhibition games against Manhattan College (April 8th), Fordham College (April 9th), and Columbia College (April 10th) at the Polo Grounds, before crossing the river to Jersey City to begin a home-and-home series with the Eastern League team on April 11th and 13th. Jack Dunn was training in Savannah until mid-month, when he belatedly joined the team. All of the players in the photo, except Mathewson and Babb, are wearing jackets, and some (expecially Warner) look very cold. I think this is an image from one of those early-April exhibition games played before Dunn joined the team.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by tnfoto

Personally, I would consider Dunn's absence far more curious than Davis's. Davis was with the team in a very limited capacity in 1903, after jumping from the White Sox. In fact, his very short, 4-game tenure with the team in late June and early July was wrapped in scandal, a violation of the peace agreement between the AL and NL.

In contrast, Dunn played consistently for the Giants from 1902-04, without objection or scandal.

That said, I don't have an explanation for the absence of either.

Thank you both for explaining the absence of both Davis and Dunn from the team photo.

The cap that the players are wearing along with the proliferation of images on the Chicago Daily News site of Giants players wearing the same cap, e.g. Browne, Bresnahan, dated 1903, suggests that the 1903 Giants uniform on the Hall Of Fame database may require amending as it shows the caps for both the home and away uniform being dark.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

Thank you both for explaining the absence of both Davis and Dunn from the team photo.

The cap that the players are wearing along with the proliferation of images on the Chicago Daily News site of Giants players wearing the same cap, e.g. Browne, Bresnahan, dated 1903, suggests that the 1903 Giants uniform on the Hall Of Fame database may require amending as it shows the caps for both the home and away uniform being dark.

The Burr-McIntosh group photo of the team taken at the Polo Grounds has them in dark caps. A group photo published in the Chicago Inter-Ocean on September 21st has them in light-colored caps, confirming the images in the Chicago Daily News collection. The road uniforms must have had light-colored caps, and the home uniforms must have had dark caps.

In 1902, the light-colored caps wore worn at home. The group photo that we've been discussing was probably taken at the Polo Grounds, suggesting that the players were wearing their 1902 uniforms for the pre-season exhibition game.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by RUKen

The Burr-McIntosh group photo of the team taken at the Polo Grounds has them in dark caps. A group photo published in the Chicago Inter-Ocean on September 21st has them in light-colored caps, confirming the images in the Chicago Daily News collection. The road uniforms must have had light-colored caps, and the home uniforms must have had dark caps.

In 1902, the light-colored caps wore worn at home. The group photo that we've been discussing was probably taken at the Polo Grounds, suggesting that the players were wearing their 1902 uniforms for the pre-season exhibition game.

That would explain why the caps appear to be plain white in the pre-season team photograph for 1902 but with a variation, the 1902 caps on the uniform database appear to have red rings and are not plain white.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

That would explain why the caps appear to be plain white in the pre-season team photograph for 1902 but with a variation, the 1902 caps on the uniform database appear to have red rings and are not plain white.

I think that the red rings were meant to indicate stitching rather than colored bands. Regardless, I think this is incorrect. The 1902 home caps looked more like newsboy caps. The image below is from the New York Evening World of April 23rd, 1902, six days after the start of the season.

[prewinter]

I found a blurb from the Terre Haute newspaper of 1883 noting that the photo of the club was on display in the window at Alexander & Brown. It was on May 20, 1883. Given the name Blues on the jersey, that seems to place the photo in May 1883, not 1884.

The players on the club at that time, as best I can tell, were:
Will J Briggs (3b & c) – Bats left – Died before 1909
Dan Hepp (c) – From Louisville, KY; died before 1909
Frank Robinson (1b & 3b)
William (Billy) Nelson (p)
Will Myers (ss)
Al (Cod) Myers (2b)
Anthony (Andy) Gallagher (rf) – Bats left
Tom C Stunkard (lf) – Bats left
Ed (Mit?) McKennan (cf) – Bats left, died Aug 20 1884 at age 27
Major Milner (1b)

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by RUKen

I think that the red rings were meant to indicate stitching rather than colored bands. Regardless, I think this is incorrect. The 1902 home caps looked more like newsboy caps. The image below is from the New York Evening World of April 23rd, 1902, six days after the start of the season.

Thanks for the information and the image which is new to me.

[UKBaseballfan]

Does anyone have any information in respect of the identifications of the players in the attached team photo of the 1924 Detroit Tigers.

There is an additional colorized version of the same image.

Identifications attached.

[RUKen]

The image below was printed in the Cleveland Plain Dealer on April 18, 1901, without IDs for the players. The following players trained with the team that spring: pitchers Bill Hart, Ed Scott, Bill Hoffer, Earl Moore, and Charles Baker; catchers George Yeager, Bob Wood, and Frank Cross; infielders Tim Flood, Bill Bradley, Danny Shay, Erve Beck, and Bill Hallman; outfielders Ollie Pickering, Jack McCarthy, and Frank Genins; and manager Jimmy McAleer. George LaChance joined the team a few days after this picture appeared, so he cannot be in it. Luther (Dummy) Taylor had signed with this team, but did not train with them because he jumped to the New York Giants and joined them for training. In addition to the above named players, the following also trained with this team, but were cut during the spring or early in the season without appearing in a game: Hullsmit/Hullswith (probably Rudy Hulswitt), Bill Sump, H. Hart (a different player than Bill Hart), and Stupka (a local semi-pro). In a separate post I will attach images of ten individual players that also appeared in the Plain Dealer that same day. In addition to LaChance's absence, a few players were noted in the Plain Dealer as not being in training that particular day, but I think the photo may have been taken earlier and that at least one of these players is in the image. The absent players were Tim Flood, Bill Bradley, and Danny Shay.

Top Row (L-R): 1-Bill Hallman, 2-Erve Beck, 3-Charles Baker, 4-Bill Hoffer, 5-Bill Hart, 6-Earl Moore, 7-Ed Scott, 8-possibly Rudy Hulswitt, 9-Bill Bradley, 10-Frank Cross.
Middle Row (L-R): 1-Jack McCarthy, 2-Jimmy McAleer.
Bottom Row (L-R): 1-Ollie Pickering, 2-Frank Genins, 3-Tim Flood, 4-George Yeager, 5-Bob Wood.

(These IDs were entered during the discussion in the next twenty posts on this thread.)

[RUKen]

Additional Cleveland player images from the Plain Dealer, April 18, 1901:

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by RUKen

The image below was printed in the Cleveland Plain Dealer on April 18, 1901, without IDs for the players. The following players trained with the team that spring: pitchers Bill Hart, Ed Scott, Bill Hoffer, Earl Moore, and Charles Baker; catchers George Yeager, Bob Wood, and Frank Cross; infielders Tim Flood, Bill Bradley, Danny Shay, Erve Beck, and Bill Hallman; outfielders Ollie Pickering, Jack McCarthy, and Frank Genins; manager Jimmy McAleer. George LaChance joined the team a few days after this picture appeared, so he cannot be in it. Luther (Dummy) Taylor had signed with this team, but did not train with them because he jumped to the New York Giants and joined them for training. In addition to the above named players, the following also trained with this team, but were cut during the spring or early in the season without appearing in a game: Hullsmit/Hullswith (probably Rudy Hulswitt), Bill Sump, H. Hart (a different player than Bill Hart), and Stupka (a local semi-pro). In a separate post I will attach images of ten individual players that also appeared in the Plain Dealer that same day.

I've started the IDs with a few easy ones.

Top Row (L-R): 1-x, 2-x, 3-x, 4-x, 5-Bill Hart, 6-Earl Moore, 7-x, 8-x, 9-Bill Bradley, 10-x.
Middle Row (L-R): 1-x, 2-Jimmy McAleer.
Bottom Row (L-R): 1-x, 2-x, 3-x, 4-x, 5-x.

Just picking out one player, the player on the top row at the extreme left, because he is wearing a St. Louis jersey. The only player I believe with Cleveland who was previously with St. Louis is Gus Weyhing. Normally he has not been shown photographed clean shaven. The last photograph I have of him is from 1898 and it is attached alongside the player in the identified position in the team photo, he is absent, however, from the list of players attending Spring Training. The individual images by cap design and jersey color suggest Hallman as this player and he did previously play for St. Louis in 1897, he is listed at 5'8". 1899 image with Buffalo attached.

Also maybe a match for the player on the right of 5'10 Bill Hart. Bill Hoffer is listed at 5'9" with an example next to the player 4 in the top row.

Thanks for sharing the image, great find.

[UKBaseballfan]

Cleveland 1901 Additional suggestions

Tallest player on Earl Moore's left (Top 7), Ed Scott. Player on the right of bottom row, Bob Wood. The player second from left, bottom row, appears to resemble Pete Dowling but he is not listed as being present, alternatively the cap jersey combination in the individual photo suggest a match with Frank Genins, image attached..

[UKBaseballfan]

The 2 players at the left in the top row both appear to be wearing hooped caps. The cap combination jersey for the player 2nd from left appears to match that of Erve Beck in the individual image.

Observing the individual images of George Yeager and Ollie Pickering they are both wearing the same combination of dark cap, dark jersey and light trousers. This combination would match the players in position 3 of the back row and position 1 of the bottom row. Comparison of Genins and Pickering with the player in the top row attached.

[UKBaseballfan]

Attached are images of Yeager and Pickering with the player on the left of the bottom row. Could player in position 1 of the middle row be Jack McCarthy, image attached. I am going with not much confidence as Pickering in the top row and Yeager in the bottom.

This leaves the current suggestions as :-

Top (l-r)

Hallman, Beck, Baker, Hoffer, Hart, Moore, Scott, ? , Bradley, ?

Middle

McCarthy, McAleer

Bottom

Pickering, Genins, ?, Yeager, Wood

Based on the initial information of the players in attendance the likelihood in respect of the 4 question marks are Charles Baker, Frank Cross, Tim Flood and Danny Shay.

[UKBaseballfan]

Tim Flood looks a possible match for the player 8th from left in the top row.

[RUKen]

Thanks for all of your suggestions, UKB! I agree with most of them, and I've updated the IDs on the first post accordingly.

Pete Dowling, whom you mentioned but then did not assign to a face, cannot be in this image because he started the season with Milwaukee; his contract was purchased by Cleveland in the beginning of June. Gus Weyhing began his season with Louisville of the American Association; he signed with Cleveland in the early summer.

I feel pretty strongly that Ollie Pickering is a better match for the player in the bottom row on the far left, whom you've suggested may be George Yeager. I don't think Yeager is a good match for either of the two players with dark caps, dark sweaters, and light pants. Yeager had a very square jawline, unlike how I perceive those two players. I'm inclined to believe that Yeager is not in the group photo. (There were more players in camp than are in the photo.) I've attached below images of Pickering and Yeager.

I may have been unclear about who was in camp that April. Rudy Hulswitt (called Hulsmit and Hulswith in the papers), Bill Sump, H. Hart (a different player than Bill Hart), and Stupka (a local semi-pro) were all there. I have not found images of Sump, Stupka, or H. Hart, but it is entirely possible that one, two, or all three are in the photo. Danny Shay missed several days of training and was likely absent from the group photo.

I've got a couple more suggestions in the next post.

[RUKen]

I think that Frank Cross is a good match for the player top row, third from the right, whom you had suggested may be Tim Flood, and that Flood is a good match for the player in the bottom row center.

----------Cross------------------------------------?-------------------------------------------?-----------------------------------------Flood

[UKBaseballfan]

I am happy to concede that Pickering is located in the bottom row, but I find it difficult to accept that Yeager is not in the team photo as there is an individual photo of him appearing alongside in the same newspaper on the same day and all the other players portrayed individually are placed in the team photo.

If Pickering is in the bottom row then that would place Yeager in the top row.

I attach a number of different photos of Yeager as a comparison to the player located in the top row.

[UKBaseballfan]

On the basis of suggestions made so far Charles Baker would be located as 10 in the top row or 4 in the bottom row.

Baker, also known as Bock, is shown in the middle with the options on either side.