Time Warp Baseball

[Vris]

When will the season preview be up?

[jdw]

> In the late 1930s the A's prepared for
> the inevitable replacement of Sal Rossi:
> in 1938 they traded for Lee Richardson,
> who was then a 19-year old player in
> A ball who looked to have a bright future.

Richardson was a 3/5/3/2 over 5/7/3/3. He was a the #2-4 prospect the year before.

The A's traded for a scrub to protect Rossi who had an "in" with the GM which would be realized the following year when Rossi was made the manager.


> In late July 1940, the A's traded for
> Warrin Greenly as a potential replacement
> for Rossi if Rossi faded. In 1940 and 1941
> Greenly did play significantly at 1B. (In
> fact Rossi was sent down to AAA in
> September 1941 while Greenly played
> first base! This must have made it difficult
> for Rossi to manage the team.)

Yeah, it was a nutty quirk of TWB where Matt didn't catch it.

What is missing in this is the obvious:

12/17/1901 Warrin Greenly
08/22/1903 Salvatore Rossi

The "potential replacement" was nothing of the kind. He was actually almost two years *older* than the declining and sucky Rossi.

This was little more than Rossi using his in with the GM of the A's to get another 1B who wouldn't be a threat to Rossi's starting job.

> Meanwhile, Lee Richardson developed
> nicely: in 1939 in A ball he hit .337, in
> 1940 in AA ball he hit .294, in 1941 in
> AAA ball he hit .321. By 1942 he was
> ready for ML ball.

Richardson actually got a talent bump *after* the A's traded for him, from 5/7/3/3 to a very promising 7/7/5/5. When did it happen?

3/2/1940:
Lee Richardson increased his bat control, resulting in more contact!
Lee Richardson has improved his plate disclipine!

Despite the bump and beating up AA ball most of the year, Richardson couldn't get past AA except for cups of coffee.

Despite developing an beating up AAA in 1941, Richardson got just 25 starts while Rossi and his drinking buddy Greenly ate up the rest.

And it's pretty hard to say that Rossi hitting .247/.351/.329/.680 and Greenly hitting .238/.299/.381/.680 weren't a couple of old coots fading.

In 1942, Richardson was nearly fully developed - if he ever was going to be handed the job, especially with the war just starting, here it was.

Rossi started 130 games, while Richardson started 24.

It was clear that Richardson was never intended to be the replacement for Rossi. Sal and his GM buddy traded for a low level prospect who they thought would play poorly enough that they could keep him buried in the minors.

When Richardson "worked out hard" in the 1939/40 off season and came to spring training dramatically improved, Sal and the GM were shocked! They went so far as to try to break Richardson's spirits by starting him at A ball, and it looks as if it might have worked since Richardson started off playing poorly. Then an injury to the A's 1B at AA forced the organiztion to move him up, where he starting knocking the heck out of the ball.

Still, Rossi and the Organization did everything to put the breaks on his development, stretching out his time at both AA and AAA for nearly full seasons... which is ironic since Sal himself played just 41 games in AA before being called up as a *17* year old, and didn't get sent back down despite playing poorly his first three years in the bigs!

When the GM and Rossi could no longer bury Richardson in the minors, Rossi worked to break his spirts again by sitting on the bench and rarely even being called on to PH. That Richardson also knew that his draft number was up after the war also broke his spirts.

Having safely gotten Richardson off to war, Rossi was able to gobble up another 570+ PA's in 1943 despite hitting .212/.310/.284/.594!


> Sal Rossi agreed to play one final year
> in 1943 because the A's had no one
> who was ready to play at first base.

That was the cover story give to the fans. The reality is the Rossi set out to keep the job as long as possible. And look how well it worked!


> Szabo-Nagy was still too young and,
> in any case, he had experienced
> talent hits that made him unlikely
> to make it in the major leagues: his
> contact talent had fallen to 2
> although his contact rating was 3.
> But, still, a 3 in contact was not
> adequate for major league play.

Don't get me started on the tragic Laszlo Szabo-Nagy.


> Frank McDevitt played part-time at firstbase
> in 1943 but his 4/7/3 ratings paled in
> comparision to Rossi's 7/6/10 ratings.

McDevitt? You mention the name of McDevitt?

Despite Rossi completely hitting the wall in 1943 (as if he hadn't already in the proir 5 years), the A's idea of another caddy for Sal was to pick up a player *waived* by the 6th place 1942 White Sox!

McDevitt was just another guy put on the A's MLB roster specifically because he wasn't good enough to take the job from Sal.


> It was not Rossi's fault that no one was
> ready to replace him in the early 1940s.
> And A's management did prepare for his
> retirement (but perhaps a bit too late)
> but WWII messed up their plans.

Oh yes it was Sal's fault, and that of his buddies in the front office. I haven't even touched on their worst they did.


> Perhaps there were good first baseman
> who could have been traded for to replace
> Rossi in the early 1940s (the A's got bad
> ones instead),

Intentionally, as one could read between the lines of the reporting of the time.


> but the failure of the A's to trade for
> a good first baseman (likely anticipating
> that Richardson would become a solid
> player) was not Rossi's fault.

No, they had not intention of Richardson taking the job as seen in their holding him back after he improved.


> So to say that Rossi, as manager, just
> kept on playing himself at 1B--although
> someone else was better-just ain't true.

It's entirely the truth. And it's forcing me to break a story that other members of the press, especially the House Organs of the A's (who Rossi was always tight with), have been covering up for a decade.


John

[jdw]

> Don't get me started on the tragic Laszlo Szabo-Nagy.


Laszlo Szabo-Nagy was the #1 overall pick in the 1940 pick. The raves were loud:

"Ancestors Added in 1940:

Laszlo "The Commander" Szabo-Nagy, 1B, Philadelphia A's

Laszlo is a top-notch hitter, who easily becomes the best prospect in a thin Athletics system. Strangely enough, Philly's top hitting prospect before Laszlo was signed was another first baseman, Lee Richardson. However, Richardson has nothing on Laszlo, who is a large and powerful young kid with the potential to lead the league in homeruns someday. He is also a good hitter who gets on base via walks or base hits, and has plenty of power to the gaps as well. Sal Rossi, now the team's player-manager, has manned first base for many years in Philly. His days on the field are nearly done, so it looks like the timing could be perfect for Szabo-Nagy. He will begin the season in Single-A, but could actually make the majors this season due to the team's lack of depth."
-TWB News, April 1940

But what people raved about him as a once in a generation 1B prospect was his great attitude. Despite the hype, he came into his first spring training with determined to prove his worth. He flat out lit it up in ST:

Thursday 3/2/1940 :
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy has good batting practice sessions!
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy showed good strike zone judgement!

There's a kid who was working on his all around game - upping his contact and eye going up.

Let's not forget the this was an era where top prospect got their tickets punched to the majors. For example, just two years earlier Ben Hargey was in the majors in no time, while Ogden Wing was called up after just 68 games in the minor. Let's not forget Rossi himself being called up at the age of 17 and never getting sent down again! So the talk in TWB News of him probably making the majors that season weren't some editor talking out of his ass - *that* reporter knew his stuff.

Great talent, great attitude. The A's looked to have a star for the next 20 years, and the perfect player for Rossi to personally take under his wing and teach the game.

Despite his hard work in Spring Training, Laszlo was sent down to A ball. Rossi wanted no part of him on the majors, either to play him or to teach him.

Laszlo's great attitude shined again despite the burial. He crushed it in A ball - .287/.368/.555/.922 with 33 HR.

That's right - he spent the entire 1940 season in A despite killing the ball .

September call ups for A's in 1940?

Laszlo wasn't one of them.

After a year of busting his ass in spring training and then busting it on the field in A ball without ever getting promoted, it crushed him:

Tuesday 9/25/1940 :
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy has lost some power...
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy seems to have lost some bat speed, resulting in less contact...

But Laszlo didn't give up. His strong family bucked him back up in the off season, and convinced him to give it another go. He showed that great attitude by busting his ass again in the off season, and then in Spring Training to try to catch the eye of Rossi and the Organization:

Friday 3/2/1941 :
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy improves his defense at First Base.
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy has good batting practice sessions!
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy displays more power in batting practice!

There's a man working on his all around game again, including his defense, the weak point of his game.

Unfortunately, it caught Rossi's eye a little too well, if you know what I mean.

Laszlo got shipped out to AA ball. And despite starting off the season strong, the word in the organization drifting down to him was that he would never get a shot at 1B on the big club while Rossi still played.

This crushed Laszlo, and he started to drink heavily. That's not a good thing in a young 18 year old, and the results were as expected:

Tuesday 5/8/1941 :
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy seems to have lost some bat speed, resulting in less contact...

Tuesday 5/29/1941 :
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy seems to have lost some bat speed, resulting in less contact...

Tuesday 10/2/1941 :
Laszlo Szabo-Nagy has lost some momentum, his range at 1B drops to 2 ...

The hard drinking Laszlo only put effort into hitting the long ball, and the rest of his game went to crap.

While Laszlo's life spun out of control, the Rossi press bandwagon white washed it.

When modern fans look back on the infamous Sal Rossi, they need to keep in mind that not only did he use his position as manager of the A's to keep himself in the lineup long after he should have been on the bench, but he also used his influence in the organization to hold back surprising prospect like Lee Richardson, to keep the club from trading for a top 1B buried on another club, and to totally ruin the career of perhaps the most promising 1B prospect of the generation.

Oh no, it's worse than that.

Rossi destroyed a man's spirit and soul, crashing poor Laszlo Szabo-Nagy into a decade of alcoholism that nearly cost him his life.

Luckily in 1951 Szabo-Nagy was traded to Boston. The coaching job in A has helped Laszlo gain some sense of worth in life, and the often maligned Red Sox organization helped him to sobriety over the past two seasons.

Shame on Sal Rossi and the A's for what they did to Laszlo Szabo-Nagy. And bless the noble hearts of those in the Red Sox for helping him. The Commander may not have become the player he should have been, but his recovery is an inspiration to all of us.

And in the end, there's little doubt that Sal Rossi was one of the most selfish and destructive players and managers in the game's history.




John

[jdw]

> I knew him

You know everyone, Matt.


> In fact I was a Sugar McDonald
> fan. I was sad he never turned
> out.

If it wasn't for Sal Rossi, he might have.


> Always enjoy it when someone pulls
> a player like this out of the archives.

I think that's why it's so much fun to rambling on in those historical pieces - it's literally bouncing off walls as I re-read things from the Almanacs. Like with the White Sox of that era, I tend to forget just how screwed up there were.


> And as far as ancestors go, have
> a AS or HOF ancestor is great,
> but just having one in the majors
> should be fun for anyone who is
> really interested & likes the game
> of baseball. Most players never
> become HOF or AS. Just seeing
> them on a team, and picturing
> them in their role, is fun.

I wrote after the 1947 World Series that it (that Series) made up for all of the "disappointment" of Doc's career. And it still does. Like I said above, even a Bucky Dent has "his" moment.

Of course the 3 BB titles were kinda cool too.


John

[tward13]

Originally Posted by jdw

I wrote after the 1947 World Series that it (that Series) made up for all of the "disappointment" of Doc's career. And it still does. Like I said above, even a Bucky Dent has "his" moment.

Of course the 3 BB titles were kinda cool too.
John

and now he's a roving instructor in the Giants minor league system. Helping the young infielders, preaching about patient hitting, learning the team's players and system. I think he's got a career ahead of him with the Giants.

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by jdw

Luckily in 1951 Szabo-Nagy was traded to Boston. The coaching job in A has helped Laszlo gain some sense of worth in life, and the often maligned Red Sox organization helped him to sobriety over the past two seasons.

Shame on Sal Rossi and the A's for what they did to Laszlo Szabo-Nagy. And bless the noble hearts of those in the Red Sox for helping him. The Commander may not have become the player he should have been, but his recovery is an inspiration to all of us.

And in the end, there's little doubt that Sal Rossi was one of the most selfish and destructive players and managers in the game's history.

You must know my grandfather-in-law. On my honeymoon in Hungary, he was constantly pouring wine down my throat. It's all a big blur.

[jdw]

Yes! The Press is right again~!




John

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by Vris

When will the season preview be up?

Man, I have to travel to Toronto for the 2nd week in a row, and I'm bringing my family with, so I'll actually have much less time for TWB this week. This may be a season where I have to skip it, but I'll try to sneak it in tomorrow night, since the sim is delayed a bit.

[canadiancreed]

doh

could pass it off to the press or something

[Vris]

I'm just impatient Matt. Take your time. Real life always comes first.

[ifspuds]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

could pass it off to the press or something

I'm a little worried about what the press might write, aren't you?

[BPS]

Laszlo's story is, alas, one of how a fine young man fell prey to the visions of fame (indeed, a "right" to fame) put into his mind by the overheated sports press.

Originally Posted by jdw

Laszlo....crushed it in A ball - .287/.368/.555/.922 with 33 HR....That's right - he spent the entire 1940 season in A despite killing the ball .

But look at other first baseman laboring in A ball the same year, 1940:
Lonny Arrendale
1939, A: .301 with OPS of .815
1940, A: .397 with OPS of .900
1941, A: .304 with OPS of .882
1942, A: .292 with OPS of .893
1943, A: .252 with OPS of .752

Arrendale had his head on straight and was able to dismiss the overheated press about his "right" to move right up to the big club. This, despite his being "stuck" in A ball for 5 years despite many years of crushing the ball at that level. Arrendale just worked on perfecting his game and went on to success at a very high level in the majors. He blocked out the jabbering of the press and became a ball player who worked for what he got rather than assumed he could just claim a spot in the major leagues just because the press said he had a right to this spot.

Bobby Johnson
1940, A: .308 with OPS of .879
1941, A: .328 with OPS of .983

Like Arrendale, Johnson figured he had to earn the right to a spot on the ML roster by perfecting his game year after year laboring in the minor leagues. He also had his head on straight. When he didn't get promoted to the ML after his 1940 season in A ball he just shrugged his shoulders and continued to work on his game. In a couple of years, Johnson moved up to the big club and played at a high level.

Importantly, the word is that both Johnson and Arrendale were told to not read certain sports writers because of the harmful effect reading the writers could have on their psychology. They did as they were asked and became feared hitters.

The A's major regret not giving Laszlo the same advice. They didn't take into account that he was not yet ready to deal with the mind-bending overheated sports press. Imagine, if you will, the image of young Laszlo with a small devil standing on his shoulder whispering into his ear, "You have a right to play with the big club. They are out to ruin you! This is unfair! Have a drink to suppress your disappointment. Have another drink!"

If Laszlo wasn't lead astray by the sports press--which acted the part of the devil whispering on his shoulder--, who knows what sort of hitter he could have become. But, alas, the press contributed to the destruction of a promising ball player.

Sadly, the same press that claims to have been so concerned about young Laszlo soon urged that the young man be put into A ball as some sort of side-show freak for the amusement of the public. Forget playing at the level you belong, set Home Run Records!

Where was the concern for a dignified life as a ball player or as a human being? No, the press wanted him used as a mere provider of amusement for the public. Has the press no shame.

His being crushed by not moving up to the big leagues after one solid year of A ball was not necessary but was a consequence of his falling under bad influences. Hundreds of promising ball players have been able to deal with minor disappointments and go on to success in the major leagues. Why could not the press have left poor Laszlo alone to follow the well worn path of earning your way up to the big leagues?

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by ifspuds

I'm a little worried about what the press might write, aren't you?

NOt really. I know that I'll be picked 7th, right ahead of the Brooklyn rebuilding project and behind the retirement home known as the Phillies

[gambler]

And I'm guessing the Cubs will be picked 4th behind the Giants, Cardinals and Pirates.

[jdw]

> Laszlo's story is, alas, one of how a fine
> young man fell prey to the visions of fame
> (indeed, a "right" to fame) put into his
> mind by the overheated sports press.

Not at all.

He was a top prospect - #1-1 pick back when nearly all went onto strong careers. You *really* don't want the Press researching that one for this thread. He also was a kidwho busted his ass when he was young as evidenced by his strong ST in his first two years before.


> But look at other first baseman laboring in
> A ball the same year, 1940:
> Lonny Arrendale
> 1939, A: .301 with OPS of .815
> 1940, A: .397 with OPS of .900

*snip*

Lonny was the #1-7 pick in 1939. He was 20 when drafted, and 21 in 1940.

You're comparing him with a 17 year old #1-1 pick?

The Phils also traded for Lonny on the specific request of legendary manager Bop Vacha. This is another old tale, part of the building of the Great Phils Dynasty of the 40s and the decline of the A's to the bottom part of the AL...

Bop was one of the best judges of talent in TWB history. It's forgotten now that he threatened to quit after the William Suggs for Goza & Weston & Grillati at the deadline in 1939. That trade only happened because Phills Hall of Fame GM Mark Krosser was taking a short leave of absense due to health issues, leaving the opperations in the hands of one of the sons of the owner. Vacha went balistic when Goza was traded, as he was a player Bop scouted when making him the Phils #1 pick in 1939. It took all the calming skills of Krosser (who flew back from Hot Springs in great pain) to keep Bop from walking. The owner's son was shuttled off to head the Community Relations Department and stay out of the way of master builders Krosser and Vacha.

Almost instantly you could see the results. Not entirely happy with Suggs as the long term solution at 1B, Krosser and Vacha on 05/07/40 fleeced the Indians out of Lonny Arrendale for Raymond Combs. Later Indians front office personel still curse that trade. On 06/25/41, the other corner of the infield was traded when the Phils traded Willard Carte to the White Sox for Maurice Misisca, who Vacha quickly turned around the career of. If not for the Suggs deal, Vacha would have had three quarters of his future infield, and as he would later tell the story, he already had his eye on exactly who he wanted to make the fourth piece.

But Krosser and Vacha had an issue - Suggs was the Phils top hitter, and the team overpaid for him in that brutal deal. The team had to someway get value back for him. Bop was very clear with young Lonny that the 1B job would be his when they could move the then 32 year old 1B William Suggs and get something back. Lonny took it to heart, because if there's anything that can be said about Bop and his dealings with his players it was that he always was a straight shooter. Unlike his successor Whit Sard, or of course the other manager in town at the time.

So Vacha showcased Suggs, and laid the seeds for the deal he wanted. It took several year to strike, in part because the Browns were leary of dealing with the wiley Krosser and Vacha. After that, the A's refused to deal with their cross-league rivals. Then, in a moment of poetis justice (in this whole interlocking series of stories), Sal Rossi selfish and obsessive clinging to the A's 1B job bite his team in the ass again.

With Richardson safely over seas at War, and poor Laszlo Szabo-Nagy in a drunken stupor in the minors, Sal Rossi had hoped to come back at the age of 40 and play another season. Only the direct (though quietly behind the sense) intervention of the Commissioner of Baseball was it told to the A's that it would be best for the game if the embarassment of Sal's continuing career would come to the end with the 1943 season... thankfully.

But this left the A's without a 1B for 1944. As mentioned in an earlier article, Rossi had convinced the front office to sign the useless Frank McDevitt to play his caddy. Rossi then actually had the stones to go into 1944 with McDevitt as his starting 1B. .188/.240/.311/.551. The joke around the press boxes for the first four months of the year was the Rossi was starting such a wretched 1B in the hopes that the fans would forget the wretched 1B who started there in 1943.

Krosser saw his chance, consulted with Vacha who supported it, and the Phils dangled 36 year old William Suggs infront of Rossi and the A's.

Scruggs was coming off one of his better years in 1943 (remeber this was the soft ball and the war ERA where offense was down), leading the NL in RBI. His vaule was at it highest, but Vacha also was already going with Arrendale at 1B in 1944.

Rossi was overjoyed to jump at adding year another older vet to the team.

What did the A's give up in return? Just the man Vacha had his eyes on for the past five years:

The Greatest Fielding Shortstop Of All-Time, Ted Stuart.

The first full season that Stuart, Moe and Lonny played together on the IF, the Phils won the World Title.

They did it again the second year.

And the fourth year.

Scruggs and Rossi?

Scruggs had a high average 1945, but suddenly found at the age of 37 that his power was gone. He played his way out of the game in 1946 when the real players came back.

Rossi would lead the A's to 6th, 7th and 7th in the first three years of the Live Era before being "allowed" to retire.

Lonny got the job with the Phils right when Vacha promised, and the Phils were able fleece the A's out of Ted Stewart in return for Scruggs. Vacha and Krosser were masters of developing talent, and also cashing it in.


John

[jdw]

> Bobby Johnson
> 1940, A: .308 with OPS of .879
> 1941, A: .328 with OPS of .983

Bob Johnson was the #1-2 pick of the Phils in 1940. He was drafted *before* the Phils fleeced the Indians out of Lonny Arrendale. Krosser and Vacha weren't totally sold on Johnson even when drafting him, and thought he had a flaw that might keep him from being the all around hitter they liked at 1B. But after the terrible Scruggs deal by the Owner's Son, they needed a future plan at 1B. Johnson was there in the draft.

The future plan quickly changed when Krosser and Vacha saw Arrendale on the market, and at fleecing prices. From that moment on, Arrendale was always the Phils future 1B, and Johnson was trade bait.

Of course part of the brillance of Krosser was that he knew the value of a former #1-2 pick, and he was in no hurry to offload him. Johnson going off to war in 1944-45 took some of the presure off dealing him, but after a strong year in the minors in 1946, it was time to look to cash in Johnson.

They did it by trading him to the Red Sox for defensive wizard Pokey Dorsey in 1947. Pokey was old, Johnson was young. But Johnson was also excess, while Pokey filled the 2B hole for the team. While disappointing in 1947, Pokey and Stuart formed the greatest defensive double play combo in TWB history in 1948, and Pokey would win another World Title in 1949 as an exceptional jack-of-all trade utility man, ala Junior Gilliam, Gil McDougal and Tony Phillips.

Johnson of course had a fine career with the Red Sox and now is with the Cubs.

Lonny Arrendale ranks with Ken Chaucer as the best 1B of his generation, so it's clear Vacha and Krosser were right on their talent judgement.

Whereas Rossi got fleeced on Scruggs. Which is fitting, as we all know that if he hadn't set out to crush the talent and spirit of Laszlo Szabo-Nagy, he would have already had his first base star in the majors.

Of course that would have cost Rossi a few hundred hits off his career record, and we all know that Rossi cared more about that than his team or his players.


John

[jdw]

BTW - that was an awfully mean stunt I pulled in that Lonny post. It's not fair of me to praise Vacha, Krosser and his all-time favorite Ted Stuart while ripping Sal.


John

[Matt from TN]

Possibly no updates from me in this thread until next week. Out of town for work.

[Vris]

Good luck Matt.

[kreitena]

Why aren't the player pages updated yet with the opening day sim?