Pacific Coast League 1920-30?

[rasnell]

Even if the best of the PCL for each era could be assembled from leader boards into a database, wouldn't that be fantastic for all of us OOTP simmers? I really hope this leads to something and someone with the expertise to deal with these databases, create rosters, etc. will be interested to jump on this.

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

One of our OOTPB Forum members has copies of these...maybe a full set...he shared a few years with me (Southern Association and Texas Leagues 1943 and 1946-1948) when I wanted to recreate those leagues and have a Dixie Series between their league champions each year)...and they are great. But it is asking too much of him to supply that info...he was very nice to help me though.

I'll have more for you EC. Don't worry. Hopefully you're keeping busy with your other historical project. Once I'm settled into my new house, I can finish sending you those SA and TL stat files. That might not be until April, though.

I think that a minor league database would be a great idea. It might not be as difficult to do if we could get enough people to pitch in and put it together. I have plenty of raw data, as some of you know. If I could get all of my guides scanned and uploaded to different people, this could be done.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Splitter24

I'll have more for you EC. Don't worry. Hopefully you're keeping busy with your other historical project. Once I'm settled into my new house, I can finish sending you those SA and TL stat files. That might not be until April, though.

I think that a minor league database would be a great idea. It might not be as difficult to do if we could get enough people to pitch in and put it together. I have plenty of raw data, as some of you know. If I could get all of my guides scanned and uploaded to different people, this could be done.

I would be glad to help do some of the work to create this Minor League Database.

Splitter, I didn't want to give your name, fearing you would be inundated with requests.

Contrats on the new house...just got my dream house at age 65...the whole process dominates your life for a month or two...April will be fine for the rest of the league stats...May, June, July, August would be fine, too. Thanks for your great help.

[jtb]

I don't know if this site will help www.bballsports.com it has online databases.

[seth70liz76]

Originally Posted by jtb

I don't know if this site will help www.bballsports.com it has online databases.

That site has just the major leagues info (which considering it has WCHL and PCHA is a little annoying--but justified by the fact those leagues did play for the Stanley Cup), but I like the all-sport one.

[Spritze]

I have all the Sporting news and Reach guides from 1930 thru current and even a commissioners copy for one of the war years which has stats missing from the normal one due to paper rationing. I could scan the PCL pages and send em to interested parties. If each party inputted one or two years I could compile and release a lahman for them there years? Or not. Depending on what people like yourselves wanna poo..... umm make that do.

[seth70liz76]

Originally Posted by Spritze

I have all the Sporting news and Reach guides from 1930 thru current and even a commissioners copy for one of the war years which has stats missing from the normal one due to paper rationing. I could scan the PCL pages and send em to interested parties. If each party inputted one or two years I could compile and release a lahman for them there years? Or not. Depending on what people like yourselves wanna poo..... umm make that do.

I'm willing to help! I've always wanted to do something for a community that's done so much to increase my enjoyment of OOTP--if data entry helps, then so be it!

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by seth70liz76

I'm willing to help! I've always wanted to do something for a community that's done so much to increase my enjoyment of OOTP--if data entry helps, then so be it!

I'll be glad to imput some data...that's all the ability I have...someone would have to tell what they wanted and how to do.

Who knows maybe someone could create a minor league database with the PCL, International, American Association, Southern Association, Texas League, Southern League (SALLY), and Eastern League....that would take care of it down to Class A.

[seth70liz76]

Originally Posted by seth70liz76

I'm e-mailing a person I've had some contact with (on-line) who has these sites covering the old PCL--there is basic triple crown info for most of the teams--to see if he knows of a good reference guide. I explained that there is interest in building a DB for the old PCL, if someone who actually knows something about those clubs/players could at least be an unofficial advisor (about park factors, defense, etc) it could be a big help. I'll let everyone know what his response is.

Here is his response

"The three volume set compiled by Carlos Bauer is the definitive source you will want to use. It is called "The Coast League Cyclopedia," and has the full stats for every player who ever came to bat or pitched in the PCL between 1903 and 1957. The companion volume is entitled "The Early Coast League Statistical Record, 1903-1957," which has the data arranged by team and year. The publisher's address is, Baseball Press Books, P.O. Box 22493, San Diego CA 92192-2493."

Other than the guide information Spritze mention, this is probably the best source out there. At the very least, it would fill in the gap in stats (03-29) that Spritze doesn't have yet.

Again, I'd love to help with entering information into the DB--especially (for selfish reasons) the 1946-1957 era. Let me know at Sethdrodgers@hotmail.com on what we need to do to get started!

[Eugene Church]

We need someone to take charge that has the knowledge of creating a database...to tell the forum members what is needed from volunteers...advertise for the volunteers...and then follow up on everything.

I am quite computer-challenged, but would be willing to work as a grunt or gopher.

We need somebody with the dedication and skills of Le Grange Orange, gmo and BigCity (Henry) to take charge...or Ankit, Jayzone, jdew, halofan, Tiger Fan or Cooleyvol.

[Le Grande Orange]

I think I tried to start something like this last year, but it didn't get too far, as there was a lack of volunteers and the information available wasn't that comprehensive nor in a good quality state.

However, I did at least put together an Excel file with all the various fields set up for the stats, and separate sheets for the batting, pitching, and fielding (I also set up fields for the calculated stats as well, like batting average, total bases, ERA, and so forth). If nothing else, it seems to me even just getting the player stats entered into Excel files is a good start, as I think it can be further manipulated as needed from there for database purposes later (someone more knowledgeable in that area will have to speak up about that).

This time out it looks like there is more interest, and there seems to be better sources of information, such as getting the stats right out of the yearly TSN Guides.

Maybe we can at least set up a trial run, to get an idea of exactly how much work and time is needed to get through one season's worth of player stats for the PCL, IL, and AA...

Incidentally, I know there is already out there are Excel files with the PCL player stats for 1948-57, which I got from someone last year.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I think I tried to start something like this last year, but it didn't get too far, as there was a lack of volunteers and the information available wasn't that comprehensive nor in a good quality state.

However, I did at least put together an Excel file with all the various fields set up for the stats, and separate sheets for the batting, pitching, and fielding (I also set up fields for the calculated stats as well, like batting average, total bases, ERA, and so forth). If nothing else, it seems to me even just getting the player stats entered into Excel files is a good start, as I think it can be further manipulated as needed from there for database purposes later (someone more knowledgeable in that area will have to speak up about that).

This time out it looks like there is more interest, and there seems to be better sources of information, such as getting the stats right out of the yearly TSN Guides.

Maybe we can at least set up a trial run, to get an idea of exactly how much work and time is needed to get through one season's worth of player stats for the PCL, IL, and AA...

Incidentally, I know there is already out there are Excel files with the PCL player stats for 1948-57, which I got from someone last year.

If LGO heads this project, I will be glad to help in anyway my computer-challenged abilities allow. He would do it right.

It is time to step up to the plate and offer your services. This would be a great thing to have when we get OOTP7 and the ability to play out the minor leagues with "real historical" minor league players.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I think I tried to start something like this last year, but it didn't get too far, as there was a lack of volunteers and the information available wasn't that comprehensive nor in a good quality state.


Maybe we can at least set up a trial run, to get an idea of exactly how much work and time is needed to get through one season's worth of player stats for the PCL, IL, and AA...

Let's do it.

How many volunteers do we need and with what skills?

Splitter24 has the stats...several other have offered to help.

Let's see how long it takes to do one year in the PCL, American Association and International League.

I will do the data entry for one year in each.

[Splitter24]

I'd be happy to help beyond providing stats. But I wouldn't be able to contribute much of anything to this project until April.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Splitter24

I'd be happy to help beyond providing stats. But I wouldn't be able to contribute much of anything to this project until April.

April is just around the corner.

[seth70liz76]

I'm definatly on board to enter data. Give me the data and I can be started this week! As I said earlier, for selfish reasons I'd love to handle 1946-1957.

[Le Grande Orange]

A few thoughts on procedures:

To make the most rapid progress, I would think it best to parcel out a single year at a time to as many folks who are willing to do the stat data entry. Since there are batting, pitching, and fielding stats for each league, and there are three AAA leagues, that would ideally mean nine volunteers. One would work on the PCL batting, a second on the PCL pitching, a third on the PCL fielding, a fourth on the IL batting, a fifth on the IL pitching, and so on. If a person finishes their portion of the stats for a league for that year, they can be given the portion for the next year.

To keep things from being repetitive and having the same person doing the same stats section and league over and over again, it can be changed up for each season so that the participants different leagues and stats areas.

This method makes more sense to me, as it should mean quicker progress through an entire season rather than handing off a series of years on the PCL to one person, a series of AA years to another, and so on.

Opinions?

What's needed:

1) Volunteers, of course, to do the stat data entry from a supplied Excel file template. You'd need Microsoft Excel, though it's likely it could also be entered into the OpenOffice spreadsheet app as well, for those that use that freeware suite.
2) Scans of the approrpiate leagues and statistics for entry, from either TSN Guides or other reference sources.
3) Someone to track what leagues and stats areas have been processed, and to send out the stats scans and Excel files as needed.

Did I miss anything?

What stats to include:

Since we'd be making essentially a minor league statistical record, I'd say type in whatever stats are included from the reference sources, even if those stats are not part of the set used in the Lahman Database.

Here's what's in the Lahman Database:

Biographical:
Date of birth (Year-Month-Day)
Place of birth (Country-State-City)
Date of death (Year-Month-Day)
Place of death (Country-State-City)
First name
Last name
Given name
Nickname
Weight (pounds)
Height (inches)
Bats
Throws

I'm not sure how much of this will be included in the reference sources. Certainly at the least the first and last name, age (either as just a year, or the birthdate if it's available), and the batting and throwing hand should be included if at all possible.

Batting: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SH SF HBP SB GIDP CS IBB

In some years some of these stats weren't tracked, but certainly the basics are.

Pitching: G GS CG SHO W L OutsPitched H BA ER HR BB SO ERA SV

The Lahman is interesting in that it doesn't use IP, while virtually everything else does. So the files would have IP in them rather than Outs Pitched. As before, in some years some of the stats weren't tracked.

Fielding: G PO A E DP GS INN ZR

I suspect the fielding stats in the reference sources will be pretty basic.

So these are the stats included in the Lahman Database. If you look at player stats on sites like Retrosheet or Baseball-Reference, you'll find even more statistical categories are tracked.

Again, I'd recommend including whatever stats the references source have, even if they're not included in Lahman. Might as well include everything available, it seems to me.

In the Excel file I made up, I included fields for all of these raw batting stats:
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SH SF SB CS HBP GDP IBB

I also threw in fields for these calculated stats, since it's a spreadsheet after all, perfectly suited to calculating such things:
TB AVG OBP SLG OPS ISO SA HR% SO% K/BB RC

The pitching raw stats:
G GS CG SHO SV W L IP AB H R ER BB SO HR WP HBP BK IBB

Pitching calculated stats:
PCT ERA OBA H/9 BB/9 K/9 K/BB WHIP

Fielding raw stats:
G PO A E DP PB CS

Calculated fielding stat:
PCT

I figure there's no reason not to make the Excel file as comprehensive as possible, since it could serve as a reference on its own. For creating a database, the unneeded statistical categories could be removed and the file saved as a copy.

Your thoughts?

And those are the main points that come to mind at the moment...

[seth70liz76]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Biographical:
Date of birth (Year-Month-Day)
Place of birth (Country-State-City)
Date of death (Year-Month-Day)
Place of death (Country-State-City)
First name
Last name
Given name
Nickname
Weight (pounds)
Height (inches)
Bats
Throws

I'm not sure how much of this will be included in the reference sources. Certainly at the least the first and last name, age (either as just a year, or the birthdate if it's available), and the batting and throwing hand should be included if at all possible.

At least for players with MLB experience Baseballreference.com or Total baseball could cover that information if what the scans don't cover it.

And again--I am excited to get started asap!

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

A few thoughts on procedures:


To keep things from being repetitive and having the same person doing the same stats section and league over and over again, it can be changed up for each season so that the participants different leagues and stats areas.

I suspect the fielding stats in the reference sources will be pretty basic.

Batting and Throwing are included on Splitter24 Guides...lefthanded is indicated with an asterisk "*"...fielding stats are basics, but enough to create ratings for a player...complete batting and pitching stats are there...no personal info...in fact, the players are listed with their birthnames...no nicknames...this can get confusing sometimes...Seymour Block was a Nashville Vols player in the late 40's...but he was known as Cy Block...you wouldn't know that unless you were very familiar with the league...Forest Jacobs of the Mobile Bears was much better known as Spook Jacobs.

I would suggest that the volunteer would stay with league and the category he is assigned throughout, just for the sake of organization.

A rough estimate is that an 8 team league would have about 250 total regular players and pitchers that we would have to put batting and fielding stats in each season...and about 130 pitchers.

Le Grande Orange, are you going to head this up?...I can think of no one better to do it.

[ifspuds]

I'd love to lend a hand with some data entry. I've wanted to run a PCL league in OOTP for years now. Sign me up to help wherever I'm needed. I'm not picky.